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How is one to be baptised? In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus?
i was just wondering what some of you guys think about water baptism. Is it for the remission of sins, or an outward sign of inward grace?
Hi and welcome,
Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again of water and the Spirit. The Apostles in Acts showed it's meaning as they baptised in water those who believed and repented and then laid on hands for them to receive the Spirit.
Nothing has changed.
The message ususally meets now with ribald contempt. Naaman was none too thrilled when he was told to have a dip or two in the river either to be free from leprosy.Peter said in Acts 2.38
“…be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins”
He also said in 1Peter 3 21
“…Baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”
Paul in Gal 3.27 tells us “..all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ”.and Romans 6 shows us it baptises us into the physical death of Christ so that we can assume a new heavenly body at the return of Christ.Then it is like Joshua and the promised land. We are occupied territory with enemies within that have to be defeated and the land fought for. We are given the power and the grace to reclaim the inner man and let Christ be born into us as the Spirit. We can choose to submit to the leading of the Spirit and feed on the Word and be transformed by the renewing of our hearts and minds-till we have the mind of Christ.
Jesus in Lk 15 10 tells us “there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents and that we must all repent lest we perish.
God demands an individual repentant response to his Son's message and the sign of that faith and repentance before God, Christ, the angels and men is water baptism. It is an everlasting witness or sign too as shown in 1Jn 5 5-7.
And in Romans 6.3 f we are told we who are baptised into Jesus Christ are baptised into his death.
Understanding water baptism
As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things, things that are seen, to help us understand spiritual truths, things that are not seen.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Before we start this study lets look at two manifestations of baptisms.
The first is the baptism of John which is the literal baptism given to us as a picture to help us understand the spiritual baptism through Christ.
Matthew 21:25 “The baptism of John, where was it from? From heaven or from men?'' And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, `From heaven,' He will say to us, `Why then did you not believe him?'
It’s in the baptism of Christ that we find salvation and cleaning from sin, inwardly, dealing with the conscience.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John the water baptizer also says this, John 3:30 He (Jesus) must increase, but I must decrease.
To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand the one essential baptism.
Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism of John or the baptism that John was pointing to?
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?
Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths for example, when we read this in, John 6:54.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?
He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.
When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. This baptism of the Holy Spirit that is found in Luke 3:16.
Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is required in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects and bondage of sin.
Prior to the promised Holy Spirit, God used literal water to wash our literal bodies to symbolize how He was going to wash our spiritual bodies (inwardly) with words.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
This is why Jesus gave Himself.
Eph.5:25-26 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
How He does this is through preaching.
Making disciples by (baptizing) teaching them the name (character) of Jesus.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
To be baptized (taught) is to be washed with water (words) for the remission of sin. When cancer goes into remission it stops, sin stops when we are taught the character of Christ and walk in this character, in other words, being conformed to the image of YAHWEH’s Son.
Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize (wash) with words.
1 Cor.1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize (with water), but to preach the gospel (baptize or wash with words):not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Literal water baptism is a picture given to us to help us understand what God's word will do to us inwardly.
When we’re taught the word of God it washes us. Just as water washes our literal bodies the word washes our spiritual bodies (our minds).
God equates water with His word to help us understand what His word will do in our lives.
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter that the outside of them may be clean also.
How do you clean the inside first? With words…
The truth of the matter is if you have not been cleansed through the hearing of faith (words) then a literal water baptism ready doesn't mean much for it’s only a shadow of what was to come through Christ.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
There is a good example of in this Acts 10:43-48 where we find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit without water. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water. I believe this was done because they didn't have a complete understanding of the spiritual meaning as we have through the completed Scriptures.
Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, “Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
I believe many of these spiritual truths were not completely understood by the d
isciples. We even find many times the disciples were in conflict with one another because of a lack of understanding but we have the scriptures to teach and correct us through the Spirit of Christ in us.Blessings in Christ
Quote (k4c @ Nov. 15 2005,22:03) Understanding water baptism As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things, things that are seen, to help us understand spiritual truths, things that are not seen.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Before we start this study lets look at two manifestations of baptisms.
The first is the baptism of John which is the literal baptism given to us as a picture to help us understand the spiritual baptism through Christ.
Matthew 21:25 “The baptism of John, where was it from? From heaven or from men?'' And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, `From heaven,' He will say to us, `Why then did you not believe him?'
It’s in the baptism of Christ that we find salvation and cleaning from sin, inwardly, dealing with the conscience.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John the water baptizer also says this, John 3:30 He (Jesus) must increase, but I must decrease.
To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand the one essential baptism.
Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism of John or the baptism that John was pointing to?
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?
Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths for example, when we read this in, John 6:54.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?
He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.
When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. This baptism of the Holy Spirit that is found in Luke 3:16.
Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is required in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects and bondage of sin.
Prior to the promised Holy Spirit, God used literal water to wash our literal bodies to symbolize how He was going to wash our spiritual bodies (inwardly) with words.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
This is why Jesus gave Himself.
Eph.5:25-26 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
How He does this is through preaching.
Making disciples by (baptizing) teaching them the name (character) of Jesus.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
To be baptized (taught) is to be washed with water (words) for the remission of sin. When cancer goes into remission it stops, sin stops when we are taught the character of Christ and walk in this character, in other words, being conformed to the image of YAHWEH’s Son.
Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize (wash) with words.
1 Cor.1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize (with water), but to preach the gospel (baptize or wash with words):not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Literal water baptism is a picture given to us to help us understand what God's word will do to us inwardly.
When we’re taught the word of God it washes us. Just as water washes our literal bodies the word washes our spiritual bodies (our minds).
God equates water with His word to help us understand what His word will do in our lives.
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter that the outside of them may be clean also.
How do you clean the inside first? With words…
The truth of the matter is if you have not been cleansed through the hearing of faith (words) then a literal water baptism ready doesn't mean much for it’s only a shadow of what was to come through Christ.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
There is a good example of in this Acts 10:43-48 where we find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit without water. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water. I believe this was done because they didn't have a complete understanding of the spiritual meaning as we have through the completed Scriptures.
Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, “Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his rela
tives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.I believe many of these spiritual truths were not completely understood by the disciples. We even find many times the disciples were in conflict with one another because of a lack of understanding but we have the scriptures to teach and correct us through the Spirit of Christ in us.
Blessings in Christ
Hi k4c,Are you saying that we don't need water baptism?
I experienced the Holy Spirit and had the fruits of the Spirit right after water baptism! No one laid hands on me untill later on in my walk. Someone said what I experienced was the manifestion of the Spirit. All I know was that I was high and full of piece for some time afterward. Just a wrong (not evil) thought and I was under conviction not even knowing what conviction was! For the first time I experienced another voice in my head besides my own. I know that they had some people baptized only in water and didn't have the experience I had (Acts 19:3-6). I was and still am a completely new man. Not wanting to do the things I did before. I had to tell everyone that it was all true Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit was all true! They would say they believed that. I would always say and still do: “How would youl like to know it”! If anyone around me would curse my spirit would, for lack of a better word shrink inside me and still does. The only thing that was different when I was baptized in the Spirit was the talking in my spiritual language. If I attended a church or was talking to a brother or sister my spirit would and still rises, being rejuvenated in The Holy Spirit. Where two or more are gathered there Jesus will be in our midst (Matt. 18:20).
I don't understand it but that's the truth!
Knowing that I was born again right after baptism, I can't agree that water baptism is not necessary.Why was Jesus baptized and the Holy Spirit entered Him. Did Jesus have his own human spirit? ummm… that's a thought!
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 16 2005,02:12) Quote (k4c @ Nov. 15 2005,22:03) Understanding water baptism As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things, things that are seen, to help us understand spiritual truths, things that are not seen.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Before we start this study lets look at two manifestations of baptisms.
The first is the baptism of John which is the literal baptism given to us as a picture to help us understand the spiritual baptism through Christ.
Matthew 21:25 “The baptism of John, where was it from? From heaven or from men?'' And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, `From heaven,' He will say to us, `Why then did you not believe him?'
It’s in the baptism of Christ that we find salvation and cleaning from sin, inwardly, dealing with the conscience.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John the water baptizer also says this, John 3:30 He (Jesus) must increase, but I must decrease.
To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand the one essential baptism.
Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism of John or the baptism that John was pointing to?
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?
Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths for example, when we read this in, John 6:54.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?
He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.
When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. This baptism of the Holy Spirit that is found in Luke 3:16.
Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is required in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects and bondage of sin.
Prior to the promised Holy Spirit, God used literal water to wash our literal bodies to symbolize how He was going to wash our spiritual bodies (inwardly) with words.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
This is why Jesus gave Himself.
Eph.5:25-26 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
How He does this is through preaching.
Making disciples by (baptizing) teaching them the name (character) of Jesus.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
To be baptized (taught) is to be washed with water (words) for the remission of sin. When cancer goes into remission it stops, sin stops when we are taught the character of Christ and walk in this character, in other words, being conformed to the image of YAHWEH’s Son.
Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize (wash) with words.
1 Cor.1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize (with water), but to preach the gospel (baptize or wash with words):not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Literal water baptism is a picture given to us to help us understand what God's word will do to us inwardly.
When we’re taught the word of God it washes us. Just as water washes our literal bodies the word washes our spiritual bodies (our minds).
God equates water with His word to help us understand what His word will do in our lives.
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter that the outside of them may be clean also.
How do you clean the inside first? With words…
The truth of the matter is if you have not been cleansed through the hearing of faith (words) then a literal water baptism ready doesn't mean much for it’s only a shadow of what was to come through Christ.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
There is a good example of in this Acts 10:43-48 where we find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit without water. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water. I believe this was done because they didn't have a complete understanding of the spiritual meaning as we have through the completed Scriptures.
Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different langu
ages and praising God. Then Peter said, “Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his relatives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.I believe many of these spiritual truths were not completely understood by the disciples. We even find many times the disciples were in conflict with one another because of a lack of understanding but we have the scriptures to teach and correct us through the Spirit of Christ in us.
Blessings in Christ
Hi k4c,Are you saying that we don't need water baptism?
I experienced the Holy Spirit and had the fruits of the Spirit right after water baptism! No one laid hands on me untill later on in my walk. Someone said what I experienced was the manifestion of the Spirit. All I know was that I was high and full of piece for some time afterward. Just a wrong (not evil) thought and I was under conviction not even knowing what conviction was! For the first time I experienced another voice in my head besides my own. I know that they had some people baptized only in water and didn't have the experience I had (Acts 19:3-6). I was and still am a completely new man. Not wanting to do the things I did before. I had to tell everyone that it was all true Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit was all true! They would say they believed that. I would always say and still do: “How would youl like to know it”! If anyone around me would curse my spirit would, for lack of a better word shrink inside me and still does. The only thing that was different when I was baptized in the Spirit was the talking in my spiritual language. If I attended a church or was talking to a brother or sister my spirit would and still rises, being rejuvenated in The Holy Spirit. Where two or more are gathered there Jesus will be in our midst (Matt. 18:20).
I don't understand it but that's the truth!
Knowing that I was born again right after baptism, I can't agree that water baptism is not necessary.Why was Jesus baptized and the Holy Spirit entered Him. Did Jesus have his own human spirit? ummm… that's a thought!
What do you make of that, Nick?Quote (k4c @ Nov. 15 2005,22:03) Understanding water baptism As we grow in God’s word we will begin to see how in God’s word there is a literal understanding (outward) and a spiritual understanding (inward). We will also begin to see how God uses created things, things that are seen, to help us understand spiritual truths, things that are not seen.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Before we start this study lets look at two manifestations of baptisms.
The first is the baptism of John which is the literal baptism given to us as a picture to help us understand the spiritual baptism through Christ.
Matthew 21:25 “The baptism of John, where was it from? From heaven or from men?'' And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, `From heaven,' He will say to us, `Why then did you not believe him?'
It’s in the baptism of Christ that we find salvation and cleaning from sin, inwardly, dealing with the conscience.
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
John the water baptizer also says this, John 3:30 He (Jesus) must increase, but I must decrease.
To begin this study lets look at a verse in Ephesians to help us understand the one essential baptism.
Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
In this verse God is speaking about one baptism. Do you think He is referring to the water baptism of John or the baptism that John was pointing to?
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Do you think that being placed under water is the baptism of the Holy Ghost He is referring to here or is it something other than the water baptism?
Remember that all throughout God’s word He uses created things to help us understand spiritual truths for example, when we read this in, John 6:54.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Do you think Jesus was referring to His literal flesh and blood?
He tells us a couple of verses later how He was speaking.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
He tells us that He was speaking spiritually when He referred to His flesh and blood.
When God’s word speaks of the one baptism He is referring to the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. This baptism of the Holy Spirit that is found in Luke 3:16.
Luke 3:16 John the Baptist answered, saying to them all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
This is the one baptism God spoke of in Ephesians 4:4-6. This is the one that is required in order to restore our relationship with God. It’s the baptism that cleans our conscience from the affects and bondage of sin.
Prior to the promised Holy Spirit, God used literal water to wash our literal bodies to symbolize how He was going to wash our spiritual bodies (inwardly) with words.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
This is why Jesus gave Himself.
Eph.5:25-26 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
How He does this is through preaching.
Making disciples by (baptizing) teaching them the name (character) of Jesus.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
To be baptized (taught) is to be washed with water (words) for the remission of sin. When cancer goes into remission it stops, sin stops when we are taught the character of Christ and walk in this character, in other words, being conformed to the image of YAHWEH’s Son.
Paul spoke about not coming to baptize with water but to preach (teach), to baptize (wash) with words.
1 Cor.1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize (with water), but to preach the gospel (baptize or wash with words):not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Literal water baptism is a picture given to us to help us understand what God's word will do to us inwardly.
When we’re taught the word of God it washes us. Just as water washes our literal bodies the word washes our spiritual bodies (our minds).
God equates water with His word to help us understand what His word will do in our lives.
Ephesians 5:26-27 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter that the outside of them may be clean also.
How do you clean the inside first? With words…
The truth of the matter is if you have not been cleansed through the hearing of faith (words) then a literal water baptism ready doesn't mean much for it’s only a shadow of what was to come through Christ.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
There is a good example of in this Acts 10:43-48 where we find Peter teaching (washing with words) a man named Cornelius, as Peter was teaching (washing) Cornelius and his family were baptized with the Holy Spirit without water. After receiving the Holy Spirit they were baptized with water. I believe this was done because they didn't have a complete understanding of the spiritual meaning as we have through the completed Scriptures.
Acts 10:43-48 Every person who commits himself to Jesus will be forgiven through the authority of Jesus. All of the prophets say that this is true . . .'' While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came upon all those people who were listening to his speech. The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed. They were shocked because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on people who were not Jewish. These Jewish believers heard them speaking different languages and praising God. Then Peter said, “Can we refuse to allow these people to be immersed in water? They have received the Holy Spirit the same as we did!'' So, Peter commanded that Cornelius and his rela
tives and friends be immersed by the authority of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.I believe many of these spiritual truths were not completely understood by the disciples. We even find many times the disciples were in conflict with one another because of a lack of understanding but we have the scriptures to teach and correct us through the Spirit of Christ in us.
Blessings in Christ
Hi k,
The apostles, fresh from being taught by Jesus and inspired and empowered by the Spirit went out andpreached repentance
baptised in water
laid hands on believers to receive the Spiritthereby reinforcing the meaning of the gospel message of Jesus Christ.
Sometimes only some did some things. Philip did not seem to lay on hands leaving that work to Peter and John etc.
God reversed the order, as is His eternal perogative, for Cornelius and his friends but both baptisms still were ensured.
You quote the scripture about 'one' baptism. Yet you yourself admit there are John's, water, Spirit, fire.. Surely you do not believe this means all other forms of baptism are false? So this scripture has a different meaning to what you assume. Baptism in water is the basic meaning and the other baptisms are compared with it. They do not replace it.
what kind of a background do you have Nick? I came from the church of christ background. I left there because of the Trinitarian teaching. I was recently studying with the United Pentecostal Church. I was baptized in the UPC becuase they were the only people i knew of who where doing it correctly. I was studying the godhead with them. They are Oneness believers. I no longer study with them because i see that it doesn't hold water. I'm a truth seeker who's been crying out to God for quite some time. Asking him to show me truth in his word. And he is showing me. Its so awesome to think that the Almighty God of the Universe listens to little ole me. But anyway i now see that Jesus is truly the Son of God, he is not a part of the Godhead, nor is he the Almighty. There is only One God, the Father. I came to this conclusion after alot of prayer and studying the material on this site. The problem is now finding a church here in Missouri that teaches the truth?
Hi and welcome Woutlaw,
Great to meet a true seeker. There is a lot of sideshows out there with huge and deluded followings. Very few want to know the truth. Few want to listen to Jesus and follow him. Few want to seek empowerment to be able to do so.
Me? Born catholic. Woke up 25 years ago amd baptised in water and the Spirit. Finding no denomination that really based itself on scripture have studied it prayerfully since then. I share to try to show what is written. The door of salvation is still not closed. But human nature??Do you currently attend a congregation? And when you say that you were born of the Spirit, was there a manifestation as in tongues? like i said i've just broke away from the United Pentecoastal church, and their view was that those who are born of the spirit will have the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. I examined the scriptures and found solid evidence of what they are saying. However the tongues of manifestation were understandable. In every case of this happening you see the phrase “for we heard them speak in tongues”. The greek word for heard is akouo, it has several meanings but the one that fits the context is to UNDERSTAND. how else would the jews at pentecost(ACTS 2) hear them praising God in each of their languages. How did Peter and the disciples with him know that Cornelius(ACTS 10 and those of his household were magnifying God. How did Paul and those with him know that the 12 disciples (ACTS 19) had prophesied. It is clear that the tongues of manifestation where understandable. Now the Oneness Pentecostals say that the tongues of manifestation and the gift of tongues are seperate. Anyway i've sat through several Oneness pentecostal, and other charismatic services and i never seen any interpretation of the tongues of manifestation or the gifts of tongues. What is your view on the manifestation of the spirit?
I got another question for ya brother Nick, how do you deal with umm, let's say a co-worker who's going around preaching another gospel. I have a co-worker whom i've heard tell people all they have to do is accept Jesus as their personal savior (Sinners Prayer) and they are saved. He mentions nothing about repentance, baptism, or enduring to the end as our Lord said in Matt. 10:22, and Mark 13:13 that those who endure to the end will be saved. we've had discussions in the past, but i just don't want to argue over god's word. Paul tells us that the man of God shouldn't be involved in quarrels and they are useless. But at the same time Nick it actually hurts me deeply when i hear people preaching this stuff. What is your take on this? would you step up and say something?
In Christ
Willie Outlaw
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2005,08:12) Hi k,
The apostles, fresh from being taught by Jesus and inspired and empowered by the Spirit went out andpreached repentance
baptised in water
laid hands on believers to receive the Spiritthereby reinforcing the meaning of the gospel message of Jesus Christ.
Sometimes only some did some things. Philip did not seem to lay on hands leaving that work to Peter and John etc.
God reversed the order, as is His eternal perogative, for Cornelius and his friends but both baptisms still were ensured.
You quote the scripture about 'one' baptism. Yet you yourself admit there are John's, water, Spirit, fire.. Surely you do not believe this means all other forms of baptism are false? So this scripture has a different meaning to what you assume. Baptism in water is the basic meaning and the other baptisms are compared with it. They do not replace it.
Everything in the bible has it's place and time. The literal water baptism ushered in the Spirit baptism. The fact that God's word says there is one baptism doesn't not make the all other baptisms false it jus means that the one baptism that God mentions it the important one we need to understand. How we understand the one baptism is through understanding the water baptism.We see the same style of God's teaching all throughout Scripture. The Sacrifced Lamb is a outward work that we need to study to understand the work of Jesus.
All the outward works of washing and temple service is to be studied to understand the inward work.
2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
This is the new covenant, not of the letter (outward) but rather of the spirit (inward) dealing with the inward man.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
The water baptism was inmortant to them in their day but we have the Scriptures and the inward woking of the Spirit to wash us daily. This is way Jesus Himself never water baptized anyone.
John 4:1-2 Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples.
The water baptism was a shadow to help us understand the baptism of the Spirit through Jesus.
What the disciple did in water baptizing was correct for them but we have the Scriptures to wash us through the new covenant workings of the Spirit through the hearing of faith.
Galatians 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
As the new covenant minister teaches he is washing with words. As people believe they become filled with the Spirit.
Hi K4c,
Let's look at the basic teachings of the christian church as expounded by Paul in Heb 6.1f
“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity,
not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith towards God, of instruction about WASHINGS and laying on of hands…”The verse from Ephesians 4 emphasisies unity. We are made one and should be one by being baptised into the one undivided Christ. It does not say that this is a temporary evolving teaching and as soon as I leave you can drop the water part.
The words of Jesus in Jn 3 remain that you MUST be born again of WATER and the Spirit to enter the kingdom. Deceivers have diminshed and denied these words and in so doing denied Christ and the Father.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2005,22:14) Hi K4c,
Let's look at the basic teachings of the christian church as expounded by Paul in Heb 6.1f
“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity,
not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith towards God, of instruction about WASHINGS and laying on of hands…”The verse from Ephesians 4 emphasisies unity. We are made one and should be one by being baptised into the one undivided Christ. It does not say that this is a temporary evolving teaching and as soon as I leave you can drop the water part.
The words of Jesus in Jn 3 remain that you MUST be born again of WATER and the Spirit to enter the kingdom. Deceivers have diminshed and denied these words and in so doing denied Christ and the Father.
We have been taught to believe that being born of water is referring to the water baptism but being dunked under water allows no one into kingdom. Being born of the water referring to the (word) and of the (Spirit) allows entrance into the kingdom.There is no such things as being born of water in Scripture but there is a clear teaching of being born of the word in which water is used to symbolize the living word.
1 Peter 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Ephesians 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.
Hik,
The apostles baptised men in water and the Spirit into Christ in the name of Jesus. Were they acting out of ignorance or was that only an instruction for them and not us? Or does scripture say we now no longer need water baptism somewhere.
Truth does not evolve.It is written.
Hi W,
The gift of tongues is an expected gift for the saved that all should seek. It speaks directly to God in groans that bypass the human mind. The tongues may be human or angelic languages but if always able to be understood then why does God also give the gift of understanding tongues?Believe and you are saved is a very popular deception that ignores the teaching from James about even demons believing. The verse usually quoted is Romans 10.9. If you look at the context of that verse you see that such events only come about after the changes in the sun and moon prophesied by Joel 2. That is yet to occur so it is best to stay with what Jesus did say to us.
” You must be born again to enter the kingdom.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2005,23:00) Hik,
The apostles baptised men in water and the Spirit into Christ in the name of Jesus. Were they acting out of ignorance or was that only an instruction for them and not us? Or does scripture say we now no longer need water baptism somewhere.
Truth does not evolve.It is written.
Did people sacrific lambs out of ignorance or was that just for them? Truth does not evolve, truth is revealed.The Bible speaks of the baptism of John as something set apart from the baptism of the Spirit. John baptizes with water but the one who comes after his baptizes with fire.
John said he must decrease and Jesus must increase.
Do you think someone on their death bed can be saved without water baptism?
If so, how?
Hi k,
Most will not be saved through repentance, faith, water and Spirit baptism. Far more will ignore the message than those who obey and enjoy the freedom from judgement of the first resurrection. But that is the best way.
Most will be saved through the second resurrection which, unlike the first does mean judgement and judgement of works. This is God's mercy towards the ignorant, but merciful. It is not the door of the sacrificial lamb, the way preached on how to enter the kingdom.
If you choose to gamble that your works will be sufficient to be found as a sheep among the goats then you have that choice. The safe way is to follow Jesus into his death.
“Whatever you did for the least of these my brothers you did for me”
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