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Quote (Tim2 @ April 26 2007,14:32) Hi Cubes, Please read the ecumenical creeds and the Definition of Chalcedon. You'll see there that Christians believe Jesus is man as well as God. Therefore, because He is man, He can serve as prophet, priest and king. That is why He is compared to Melchizedek.
Thank you for showing that the Holy Spirit is God.
There are no verses that say only the Father is God.
Deuteronomy 4:35 says that there is no god besides YHWH. So if the Holy Spirit is God, as you've shown, and Jesus is God, as the Bible says (John 1:1), that means they are YHWH.
Tim
You assume that the ecumenical creeds and the definition of Chalcedon have something to add to the scriptures.If someone were to read them, they would learn that some people believe that Jesus is a man as well as God.
Since he is a man, he certainly can serve as prophet, priest and king. That is why He is compared to Melchizedek. He is the epitomization of man's potential.
God is the Holy Spirit. That is one of the many names that He chooses to call himself. The Holy Spirit is not a separate entity within a framework of three.
There are certainly gods many and lords many. We need to study the scripture in order to sort them out.
John 1:1, by no stretch of the imagination says that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ by name is not mentioned in that verse. It does however say, that, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and that the word was God.
Why conclude that the logos is a who? In over 200 uses of the word logos in the new T., it is used of words, messages, communications, things said, not people or persons or God or gods. Words is words. Word is word.
How can a word become flesh?
God is invisible. God is spirit. Is truth visible? Can you put some in a bag and weigh it out on a scale? No. Truth is an idea, a concept, a message, a communication, the idea behind words used words that are true.
I would rather see a sermon than hear one.
Can you teach someone truth by the truths you live by? Of course.
You can flesh out the truth by living it.
The truth, the word of God was made flesh by a man who perfectly lived the truth.
When we live the truth the Father gave us to live, people see the Father's will, they see who the Father is by the way we live our lives.
Do you enjoy being yourself? When you are “being yourself” do you speak words? The words you speak are you. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Your words are as much you as your motions are. When you walk down the street, it is you and only you. When you speak it is you.
God's words are as much God as God is himself. Jesus Christ chose to live God's words, he perfectly represented God, he is not God, he is the image of God.
Hi B,
God is in heaven where Jesus told us to pray to Him.[mt6]
He manifests by His Spirit in creation.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 26 2007,11:09) Quote (Cubes @ April 26 2007,09:50) Quote (Tim2 @ April 26 2007,14:01) The Rock, cubes? You mean YHWH? Isaiah 44:8. You mean Jesus? 1 Corinthians 10:4.
Hi Tim2,I do not deny Christ but rather exalt him as Christ, the son of God. No man comes to the Father but by him.
How about the Trinity?
It is indecisive: cannot decide whether the Father is a son, nursed at a woman's breasts, had his diapers changed, a man who who had to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness (requ'd by whom I ask?), his own servant and prophet, died [at the hands of mortal men, mind you], resurrected, etc.Or whether the son is the Father who only is the Most High GOD, immortal dwelling in unapproachable light, appearing before himself to make intecession for us, serving himself as high priest, worships himself, and all sorts of incredible “mysterious” confusing conundrum like that…
Christ as Rock is the Chief Corner stone of a building, which builder is God of which we too are a part as living stones.
There is no such thing as a Triune God, Tim2.
Meanwhile there is a clear, straight and narrow way to follow.
You have to admit the Trinity is a BROAD way by these few examples that I've shown!
CubesYou inference that says the Trinity is Modalism is a straw.
You claim that you have One God, The Father.
Yet you walk around talking about another Lord and master, which you call Jesus.
Jesus said you can not have *Two* masters.
Matt 23:10
Neither be ye called masters: for *one* is your Master, even Christ.Matt 6:24
No man can serve *two masters*: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.Scriptures are clear that we are to serve only one God.
Lk 4:8
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and *him only shalt thou serve*.There should be only One Lord and definatly only one master in every true believers heart, and that is God.
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is *one LORD*:Zech 14:9
And the LORD (YHWH) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? Who has the name which is above every name?
It is Yeshua, the Word/God, YHWY, God manifest in the flesh, reconciling the world unto himself.
Jesus said come *unto me*, all ye that labour and are heavy laden and *I*will give you rest.
Who is this that can recieve the prayers of all mankind and take their burdens and give them rest?
Surely John knew him for he wrote about him when he said…
Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the *Word was God*.This same Jesus is dwelling in every born again believer in the world and hears their prayers, and answers them, and leads them, and guides them, and comforts them, and speaks to them, and fills them, and strengthens them, and heals them, and blesses them, and gives them peace, and gives them power, and changes them, and walks with them, and runs with them, and hears their cries, and sees their tears, and is touched with the feelings of their infirmities, and, and, and,. *ALL AT THE SAME TIME*
And yet the Arians and Unitarians and Henotheist and the unbelievers want to say he is just a man.
Excuse me!!!
John was an eye witness of his resurection and his power and recorded Thomas saying “My Lord and My God”.
There was no inference here. John or Jesus didnt rebuke him for what should have been a blasphemous act.
But instead he tells us what it really meant to be the Monogenes Unique Son of God.
The Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us!!!
And now my Bible tells me that this same God/Jesus is dwelling in me and lives in every born again believer.
Hello!!!
2Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?How does he do this. By the One Spirit of whom the Lord is.
2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord (Yeshua) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.Is this just a man?
He that has the Son has the Father.
Who but God could make that claim.
Yeshua is YHWH, God in the Flesh.
One Spirit, Three Persons, One God!
Please consider thatGod means God
Lord means lord.
Master means master.
They are not the same words, they have different meanings.
You may want to look up the definitions of these word in the Greek. It would be most enlightening.
A master leads. JC leads us to the Father. How is he capable of doing this? He knows what he is doing. He read and understood scripture and acted on it.
We are to serve only God. If we love one another, who are we serving? God. Who gets the benefit? God does, but so does the ones we love. So in a sense, we are able to serve one another by serving God. Jesus Christ taught that he that will be chief among you, will be servant to all. How does anyone become servant to all? By serving God.
Nowhere does the scripture say that we are to pray to Jesus. As you must know, The teaching involving what is commonly called the Lord's prayer is address to “Our Father, who are in heaven” It does not say, our Jesus, who is on the earth. Or our Jesus, who is seated on the right hand of the throne of God.
Is Jesus Christ “just a man”?
He certainly is a man. A man who tells the truth, a man of whom God said, This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. A man that healed the sick, healed the lame, healed the blind, raise people from the dead. Fed thousands with a “happy meal”.
How many blind have you healed?
How lame have you healed?
How many people have you raised from the dead?
From how many people have you removed devil spirits?
Are you the lamb of God that took away the sins of the world?
Jesus the man accomplished this and much much more.
If Jesus is “just a man” you and I have a long way to go to grow up to be “just a man”
Yet Jesus Christ taught that we can do the same works that he did and greater works.
Will you consider yourself “just a man” the first time you raise someone from the dead?
I would think you might be “tempted” to be a little proud of yourself for doing what Jesus Christ said you can do.That “just a man” argument is bogus.
What did Thomas mean by “my lord and my God?” Was it an exclamation of surprise and delight at seeing the risen lord. Have you ever heard anyone exclaim, “My God, How wonderful” at the hearing or seeing of some unexpected g
ood thing? Was Jesus there when that person exclaimed that? No, Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father.Was Thomas giving God the glory for having raised JC from the dead as was prophesied?
No husband has ever said, “oh, God” at a climactic moment with their wife. Who is this husband having a climactic moment with?
God? or his wife? Did the husband confuse the two? Maybe the moment was so good that the husband gave God the glory for making this possible.Was Moses given the job of being god to Aaron and to Pharoah?
Was Moses a prophet? Was Jesus Christ a prophet? If Moses, who did not always obey God, was given the title of god being a prophet, how much more deserving would the prophet Jesus Christ be, who always did the Father's will.That is enough for you for now.
Have a nice day!
Quote (barley @ June 24 2010,05:55) Quote (Tim2 @ April 26 2007,14:32) Hi Cubes, Please read the ecumenical creeds and the Definition of Chalcedon. You'll see there that Christians believe Jesus is man as well as God. Therefore, because He is man, He can serve as prophet, priest and king. That is why He is compared to Melchizedek.
Thank you for showing that the Holy Spirit is God.
There are no verses that say only the Father is God.
Deuteronomy 4:35 says that there is no god besides YHWH. So if the Holy Spirit is God, as you've shown, and Jesus is God, as the Bible says (John 1:1), that means they are YHWH.
Tim
You assume that the ecumenical creeds and the definition of Chalcedon have something to add to the scriptures.If someone were to read them, they would learn that some people believe that Jesus is a man as well as God.
Since he is a man, he certainly can serve as prophet, priest and king. That is why He is compared to Melchizedek. He is the epitomization of man's potential.
God is the Holy Spirit. That is one of the many names that He chooses to call himself. The Holy Spirit is not a separate entity within a framework of three.
There are certainly gods many and lords many. We need to study the scripture in order to sort them out.
John 1:1, by no stretch of the imagination says that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ by name is not mentioned in that verse. It does however say, that, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and that the word was God.
Why conclude that the logos is a who? In over 200 uses of the word logos in the new T., it is used of words, messages, communications, things said, not people or persons or God or gods. Words is words. Word is word.
How can a word become flesh?
God is invisible. God is spirit. Is truth visible? Can you put some in a bag and weigh it out on a scale? No. Truth is an idea, a concept, a message, a communication, the idea behind words used words that are true.
I would rather see a sermon than hear one.
Can you teach someone truth by the truths you live by? Of course.
You can flesh out the truth by living it.
The truth, the word of God was made flesh by a man who perfectly lived the truth.
When we live the truth the Father gave us to live, people see the Father's will, they see who the Father is by the way we live our lives.
Do you enjoy being yourself? When you are “being yourself” do you speak words? The words you speak are you. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Your words are as much you as your motions are. When you walk down the street, it is you and only you. When you speak it is you.
God's words are as much God as God is himself. Jesus Christ chose to live God's words, he perfectly represented God, he is not God, he is the image of God.
barely………..Right on brother. Good post.peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 23 2010,12:49) Quote (barley @ June 23 2010,12:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 24 2007,15:43) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 24 2007,16:37) Quote (Cubes @ April 24 2007,12:22) It bears repeating, and to have scripture interpret scripture: Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GOD [is] one YHWH:
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
By these scriptures we see that YHWH is One, GOD and Father of all. We already know that it is written, he is the God and Father of Jesus too. No inferences.
Hi Cubes,
There is more than meets the eye with Ephesians 4:6, aside from the very many verses attesting to Yeshua indwelling us by His Spirit, there is this verse:John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.Hmmm, looks like the “One God” indwelling us is a “we” and an “our”…
How do you explain this Cubes?
Is 1:18Excellent point.
Of course there is no answer for the Arian view.
For as we know there is only One Spirit that we have been made to drink into, and scriptures teach that that Spirit is God.
Yet we read it is Christ.
Yet we read it is the comforter.
Arianistic and Unitarians and Henotheist have a Bible with 66 books but use a lot of white out.
Do you really read it that way? Wow!….and my Father will love him and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
What is your point?
This verse makes clear distinction between the son and the Father. love me, keep my words, the Father will love him… We…. We who? The Father and the son. Both, not two in one being, but two.
Why did the holy Ghost get left out?
barleyOf course I read it that way. The scriptures say that we have recieved only “One Spirit” not 2 or 3.
Yet we know that according to the scriptures that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit lives in us.
How many Spirits have you recieved?
There is one one Spirit, one God, three persons seen in the whole council of God.
WJ
Bump!Barley said:
Quote Nowhere does it say that the son is God. At least not in the sense of saying that the son is The God.
The Father calls the Son “The God” (hotheos) in Hebrews 1:8:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, (hotheos) is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
the Roo
Hi KJ,
God can and does do and say exactly what He wills as He is God.
But if you are in Christ for YOU there is one God, the Father.[1Cor8]
But perhaps you are not in him as you know of another strange trinity godQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 24 2010,10:21) Barley said: Quote Nowhere does it say that the son is God. At least not in the sense of saying that the son is The God.
The Father calls the Son “The God” (hotheos) in Hebrews 1:8:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, (hotheos) is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
the Roo
KJif God the higher calls the lower god would that mean that they are the same?
??Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 24 2010,04:49) Quote (barley @ June 23 2010,12:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 24 2007,15:43) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 24 2007,16:37) Quote (Cubes @ April 24 2007,12:22) It bears repeating, and to have scripture interpret scripture: Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH our GOD [is] one YHWH:
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
By these scriptures we see that YHWH is One, GOD and Father of all. We already know that it is written, he is the God and Father of Jesus too. No inferences.
Hi Cubes,
There is more than meets the eye with Ephesians 4:6, aside from the very many verses attesting to Yeshua indwelling us by His Spirit, there is this verse:John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.Hmmm, looks like the “One God” indwelling us is a “we” and an “our”…
How do you explain this Cubes?
Is 1:18Excellent point.
Of course there is no answer for the Arian view.
For as we know there is only One Spirit that we have been made to drink into, and scriptures teach that that Spirit is God.
Yet we read it is Christ.
Yet we read it is the comforter.
Arianistic and Unitarians and Henotheist have a Bible with 66 books but use a lot of white out.
Do you really read it that way? Wow!….and my Father will love him and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
What is your point?
This verse makes clear distinction between the son and the Father. love me, keep my words, the Father will love him… We…. We who? The Father and the son. Both, not two in one being, but two.
Why did the holy Ghost get left out?
barleyOf course I read it that way. The scriptures say that we have recieved only “One Spirit” not 2 or 3.
Yet we know that according to the scriptures that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit lives in us.
How many Spirits have you recieved?
There is one one Spirit, one God, three persons seen in the whole council of God.
WJ
I understand what you are trying to say.We need to let scripture speak for itself.
What is meant by the phrase, from I Corinthians 4:21, What will ye? shall I come unto with a rod, or in love, and the spirit of meekness?
Is there a spirit of meekness? Spirit of God, Jesus Christ, holy spirit, spirit of meekness.
How about the spirit of wisdom and revelation from Ephesians 1:17?
How about the spirit of faith from II Cor 4:13?
I Cor 14:32, the spirits of the prophets?
How about I Cor 2:11, the spirit of man?
Here are five spirits that you missed. That makes an octinity, not a trinity. Did I miss any?
As you study scripture you find that pnuema has various meanings and usages. God is spirit, so are devil spirits, God is called the Holy Spirit because God is holy and God is spirit. Some uses are in the sense of spiritually.
There is a lot more to the subject of pnuema than most people ever considered.
The do not all refer to God. God is the Holy Spirit, His gift to those who believe is called the gift of holy spirit. God imparts to us, and we are therefore partakers of the divine nature by means of this gift of holy spirit. Acts 2:38 and II Peter 1:4. Luke 11:13, Acts 2:17-18 and other places.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 24 2010,10:21) Barley said: Quote Nowhere does it say that the son is God. At least not in the sense of saying that the son is The God.
The Father calls the Son “The God” (hotheos) in Hebrews 1:8:8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, (hotheos) is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
the Roo
Yes, and this is a quote from Psalm 45 which is referring to a man a human a king, evidently this human king was worthy of a great deal of praise even to the level of being called, O God. This king is anointed with the oil of gladness above his fellows. Who are these fellows? Are they fellow gods? If so, then since one of them is anointed above the others, he is greater than the others. Therefore, they are not equal. The fellows are men, this man, this king is anointed to a level above his fellows. Why? he earned it. This phrase is not referring to the God, but to a man exalted above his fellow man.Like I said, God never calls Jesus Christ, the God. He is however, a king, a man a prophet, a teacher, an apostle, a pastor, who evangelized, exalted above his fellow men. Why? he earned it. He is given a title. He is not the God. God alone is the God, His progeny are not the God.
What a joy to know that man can so glorify God that they can be called by God's name, as Jeremiah was in 15:16. As Moses was. As Ruth called Boaz, lord, adon. As Sarah called Abraham, lord. They earned it. God has no problem with giving people exalted titles.
Hi,
It seems commoin practice here to jump onto perceived inference and teach it as truth.
We do not own the Word and it is a precious gift to be treated with great care.To all;
The truth is all that is truly inferred from the truth but there are many false inferences that are made by those that are not reasoning by the Spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,12:39) Hi KW,
It is all a matter of opinion?
Scripture proves scripture
Nick,Inferences are not opinions but rather logical reasoning necessaries.
My foot is in the bathtub; am I in the bathtub?
My body walked to the gas station; did I walk to the gas station?
In both cases the first statement answers the question by inference with a yes.
The promise of the Messiah is an inferred doctrine from the Old Testament.
The Resurrection of the dead is an inferred doctrine from the Old Testament.
Both have been revealed to be true.
Hi KW,
And all the men who think they are wise head off in different directions full of false confidence.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,14:02) Hi KW,
And all the men who think they are wise head off in different directions full of false confidence.
Nick,Why do you think Peter warns God's people that those that are ignorant of the Spirit and those that are corrupt misinterpret hard to understand Scriptures to their own damnation?
Inferences can be hard to understand by those that have eyes to see but are blind; have ears to hear but are deaf.
Jesus even tells you why he chooses to speak in such manners; don't you believe him?
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