In Jesus pre-existent state, what was He?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 14 2012,18:50)

Hi Mike: Is the following scripture the one that you use to say that Jesus was in the form of God before he became a man? Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty,

Yes, that is what Phil 2 says. But aren't you supposed to be quoting your first (of what I suppose is many) scripture that PROHIBITS Jesus from existing as a spirit being BEFORE being made into the likeness of a human being?

Also, Pierre has posted a scripture that says David was conceived in sin. All human beings are made of sinful human flesh even from infancy. Why are you going on about it against Pierre when he already posted the scripture that shows him right and you wrong?

Marty, you must learn to accept the scriptures – even when they disagree with your own preconceived notions. It seems you fall short in this area. It seems you try to FORCE the scriptures to fit into your notions, instead of adjusting your notions to fit around the scriptures.

peace,
mike

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,00:55)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 14 2012,18:50) Hi Mike: Is the following scripture the one that you use to say that Jesus was in the form of God before he became a man? Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:   Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, Yes, that is what Phil 2 says.  But aren't you supposed to be quoting your first (of what I suppose is many) scripture that PROHIBITS Jesus from existing as a spirit being BEFORE being made into the likeness of a human being? Also, Pierre has posted a scripture that says David was conceived in sin.  All human beings are made of sinful human flesh even from infancy.  Why are you going on about it against Pierre when he already posted the scripture that shows him right and you wrong?   Marty, you must learn to accept the scriptures – even when they disagree with your own preconceived notions.  It seems you fall short in this area.  It seems you try to FORCE the scriptures to fit into your notions, instead of adjusting your notions to fit around the scriptures. peace, mike

Hi Mike:

Yes, that is what Philippians 2 states, but it does not state “before he became a man”. You are adding this to the scripture.

And I have shown you that the scripture is referring to “the mind of Christ Jesus”, and I have already shown you when he was Christ Jesus.

Quote

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And relative to the scripture that Pierre quoted. It does not say that David was a sinner as an infant. I will ask you just as I asked him. How many infants do you know who have transgressed the Law of God?

Quote

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And if we as infants were born as sinners, then why does God hold us accountable for our sins?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22)

Hi Mike: Yes, that is what Philippians 2 states, but it does not state “before he became a man”. You are adding this to the scripture.

Marty,

Who, EXISTING in the form of God EMPTIED HIMSELF…………….AND…………was made into the likeness of a human being.

He WAS one thing, THEN emptied himself and was made a man.

Now, this is supposed to be about YOU showing me a scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus Christ.

Are you able to do that?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22)

And relative to the scripture that Pierre quoted.  It does not say that David was a sinner as an infant.

Here's some other versions of what Pierre quoted:
Psalm 51:5
NET ©
Look, I was guilty of sin from birth, a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.

NIV ©
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

NASB ©
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

NLT ©
For I was born a sinner––yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

BBE ©
Truly, I was formed in evil, and in sin did my mother give me birth.

NRSV ©
Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,11:31)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22) And relative to the scripture that Pierre quoted.  It does not say that David was a sinner as an infant. Here's some other versions of what Pierre quoted: Psalm 51:5 NET © Look, I was guilty of sin from birth, a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.   NIV © Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. NASB © Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. NLT © For I was born a sinner––yes, from the moment my mother conceived me. BBE © Truly, I was formed in evil, and in sin did my mother give me birth. NRSV © Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me.

Hi Mike:

I am aware of these translations, but you did not answer my questions.

Sin is defined as the “transgression of the Law”, and so, did David, or you or I transgress the Law of God as infants?

And if we were born sinners, why then does God hold us accountable for our sins?

Is David in Psalm 51 blaming his mother for his sin?

And so, because of the above, if the translators are saying that David was born a sinner, they are wrong.  He may have been born with the inclination to sin, but he was not born a sinner.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,11:25)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22) Hi Mike: Yes, that is what Philippians 2 states, but it does not state “before he became a man”.  You are adding this to the scripture. Marty, Who, EXISTING in the form of God EMPTIED HIMSELF…………….AND…………was made into the likeness of a human being. He WAS one thing, THEN emptied himself and was made a man. Now, this is supposed to be about YOU showing me a scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus Christ.   Are you able to do that?

Hi Mike:

The scripture states:

Quote

Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And so, once again, the scripture is talking of the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”, and he was not Christ Jesus until he was born into this world, and you are adding “before he became a man” to this scripture.

The Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippian church about “humility”.

If this is the scripture that is your proof that Jesus pre-existed, then it prohibits him of pre-existing as Christ Jesus by the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2012,17:48)

Sin is defined as the “transgression of the Law”,

Yes Marty,

That is ONE of the definitions. Another is “the state in which all human beings are born due to Adam and Eve”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2012,18:05)

And so, once again, the scripture is talking of the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”,

Marty,

We've already been through all this before – many times! I thought maybe you had something NEW to add. Sadly, you don't, and we're therefore left right where we've always been – with you twisting scriptures and me accepting them as they are.

Marty, no one in the history of creation could have already BEEN a human being, and then be made into the likeness of a human being. It is impossible, illogical, and below me to discuss this any further until you're ready to concede that point.

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 22 2012,18:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,11:25) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22) Hi Mike: Yes, that is what Philippians 2 states, but it does not state “before he became a man”.  You are adding this to the scripture. Marty, Who, EXISTING in the form of God EMPTIED HIMSELF…………….AND…………was made into the likeness of a human being. He WAS one thing, THEN emptied himself and was made a man. Now, this is supposed to be about YOU showing me a scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus Christ.   Are you able to do that? Hi Mike: The scripture states: Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:   Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:   And so, once again, the scripture is talking of the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”, and he was not Christ Jesus until he was born into this world, and you are adding “before he became a man” to this scripture.   The Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippian church about “humility”. If this is the scripture that is your proof that Jesus pre-existed, then it prohibits him of pre-existing as Christ Jesus by the scriptures. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

Quote

The scripture states: Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

all your scriptures are related to people who should have stopped sinning and take the Christ sacrifice for their redemption,and so follow the way of Christ,

it does not mean that they are now no longer sinners,

God will not look at their sins ,this is not the same thing is it ??

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:04)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2012,17:48) Sin is defined as the “transgression of the Law”, Yes Marty, That is ONE of the definitions.  Another is “the state in which all human beings are born due to Adam and Eve”.

Hi Mike:

Scripture please?

Thanks,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:10)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2012,18:05) And so, once again, the scripture is talking of the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”, Marty, We've already been through all this before – many times!  I thought maybe you had something NEW to add.  Sadly, you don't, and we're therefore left right where we've always been – with you twisting scriptures and me accepting them as they are. Marty, no one in the history of creation could have already BEEN a human being, and then be made into the likeness of a human being.  It is impossible, illogical, and below me to discuss this any further until you're ready to concede that point.

Hi Mike:

Yes, we have been over this many times, and you should have acknowledged that this scripture does not say that Jesus pre-existed as another class of being prior to becoming a man. He was Christ Jesus as a man, and once again the scripture is speaking about the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”.

He was in “the form of God” as God's “Only begotten Son and God's Christ. Here are some scriptures that support this:

Quote

Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Mar 2:7 Why doth this [man] thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? Mar 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) Mar 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

Quote

Jhn 10:31 ¶ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Quote

Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 22 2012,17:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:04) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2012,17:48) Sin is defined as the “transgression of the Law”, Yes Marty, That is ONE of the definitions.  Another is “the state in which all human beings are born due to Adam and Eve”. Hi Mike: Scripture please? Thanks, Marty

You mean other than Ps 51:5?

Marty, I'm not even in this discussion you were having with Pierre.  I only piped in because he was showing you a clear scripture and you still kept denying what your own eyes were reading.  You do that alot, Marty.

And your other post to me is nothing but a long, drawn-out way of diverting away from this point:

Marty, no one in the history of creation could have already BEEN a human being, and then be made into the likeness of a human being. It is impossible, illogical, and below me to discuss this any further until you're ready to concede that point.

If Jesus already was a human being, he couldn't possibly have been made into the likeness of a human being. You can list the whole Bible in your next post, Marty, but it's not going to change the above FACT.

[942767]

Hi Mike:

Here are some scriptures which exemplify Philippians 2:5-7:

Quote

Jhn 13:12 ¶ So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? Jhn 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am. Jhn 13:14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. Jhn 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Jhn 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Mike:

This is what God says about the question about an infant being a sinner:

Quote

Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

“Evil from his youth”, not a sinner as an infant.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,04:14)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 22 2012,18:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,11:25) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22) Hi Mike: Yes, that is what Philippians 2 states, but it does not state “before he became a man”.  You are adding this to the scripture. Marty, Who, EXISTING in the form of God EMPTIED HIMSELF…………….AND…………was made into the likeness of a human being. He WAS one thing, THEN emptied himself and was made a man. Now, this is supposed to be about YOU showing me a scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus Christ.   Are you able to do that? Hi Mike: The scripture states: Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:   Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:   And so, once again, the scripture is talking of the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”, and he was not Christ Jesus until he was born into this world, and you are adding “before he became a man” to this scripture.   The Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippian church about “humility”. If this is the scripture that is your proof that Jesus pre-existed, then it prohibits him of pre-existing as Christ Jesus by the scriptures. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote The scripture states: Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:   Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:   all your scriptures are related to people who should  have stopped sinning and take the Christ sacrifice for their redemption,and so follow the way of Christ, it does not mean that they are now no longer sinners, God will not look at their sins ,this is not the same thing is it ?? Pierre

Hi Pierre:

The Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippians about humility using the Lord Jesus as the example that they should follow.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 23 2012,18:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,04:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 22 2012,18:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,11:25) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:22) Hi Mike: Yes, that is what Philippians 2 states, but it does not state “before he became a man”.  You are adding this to the scripture. Marty, Who, EXISTING in the form of God EMPTIED HIMSELF…………….AND…………was made into the likeness of a human being. He WAS one thing, THEN emptied himself and was made a man. Now, this is supposed to be about YOU showing me a scripture that PROHIBITS the pre-existence of Jesus Christ.   Are you able to do that? Hi Mike: The scripture states: Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:   Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:   And so, once again, the scripture is talking of the “mind that was in Christ Jesus”, and he was not Christ Jesus until he was born into this world, and you are adding “before he became a man” to this scripture.   The Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippian church about “humility”. If this is the scripture that is your proof that Jesus pre-existed, then it prohibits him of pre-existing as Christ Jesus by the scriptures. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote The scripture states: Quote Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:   Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:   all your scriptures are related to people who should  have stopped sinning and take the Christ sacrifice for their redemption,and so follow the way of Christ, it does not mean that they are now no longer sinners, God will not look at their sins ,this is not the same thing is it ?? Pierre Hi Pierre: The Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippians about humility using the Lord Jesus as the example that they should follow. Love in Christ, Marty

marty

yes,among other things

Pierre

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

Among other things? Then tell me what he is teaching.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 22 2012,18:30)

“Evil from his youth”, not a sinner as an infant.

Marty,

The Hebrew word is:
na`uwr
1) youth, early life

And it is translated in the NET Bible as:
In NET (47) :
youth 24, young 11, earliest times 2, earliest history 2, childhood 1, earliest days 1, husband-to-be 1, younger days 1, previously 1, youth men 1, early years 1

Any of the ones above that I bolded could refer to a 1 day old child.

[942767]

Hi Mike:

You say:

Quote

Marty, no one in the history of creation could have already BEEN a human being, and then be made into the likeness of a human being. It is impossible, illogical, and below me to discuss this any further until you're ready to concede that point. If Jesus already was a human being, he couldn't possibly have been made into the likeness of a human being. You can list the whole Bible in your next post, Marty, but it's not going to change the above FACT.

If the bible is not going to change your opinion, then there is nothing more that I can say to you.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

The Bible AGREES WITH ME, Marty – not YOU. Please tell me how a human being can be made into the likeness of a human being.

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