In Jesus pre-existent state, what was He?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,18:26)

Hi Mike: No, not being difficult, nor am I confused, just trying to get you to justify what you have stated, which you have not.

Okay Marty,

If you want to do this the hard way, let's do it:

Marty, is it possible for God to cause one of His angels to be born of flesh from a human woman? YES or NO?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:19)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,18:26) Hi Mike: No, not being difficult, nor am I confused, just trying to get you to justify what you have stated, which you have not. Okay Marty, If you want to do this the hard way, let's do it: Marty, is it possible for God to cause one of His angels to be born of flesh from a human woman?  YES or NO?

No.

[942767]

Quote

Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

[terraricca]

marty

Quote

And as for your comments relative to if he was just a man he would have been born in sin.  How many infants do you know who are born in sin?

every men born from Adam is born in sin ,so no exception all of us,

show me how we in our sinful live we can produce a sinless man that will save us of our sinful condition, and show me scripture;

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,21:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:19) Marty, is it possible for God to cause one of His angels to be born of flesh from a human woman?  YES or NO? No.

Is it possible for God to cause a human being to be reborn as a spirit being? YES or NO?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2012,18:39)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,21:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:19) Marty, is it possible for God to cause one of His angels to be born of flesh from a human woman?  YES or NO? No. Is it possible for God to cause a human being to be reborn as a spirit being?  YES or NO?

mike

Marty,is ok with the creation of men ,and angel,and the angels be able to become visible like humans ,he is ok with God healing powers ,and resurrection ,
But he does not make God able to take his first creation to become a man and be born of a women,Strange.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Yeah,

I sure wasn't expecting his answer of “NO”.

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,18:38)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2012,22:32) Marty Quote Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make.  You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state. And how do you reconcile your belief with the following scripture: not God's Christ but the only begotten son of God ,that would be the Christ that is send down from the father to live among men ,and give up his man like live for the live that Adam lost in Eden ,and so saving humanity and all of creation , Pierre Hi Pierre: So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”? And as for your comments relative to if he was just a man he would have been born in sin.  How many infants do you know who are born in sin? Sin by definition is “the transgression of the Law of God”. All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned. Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:   Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

Quote

So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”?

when Christ was created,that is wen God ad a son ,NO??wen do you have a son ?

Quote

Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Quote

All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned.

look at your comment and tell me were does it say that any one is sin free;and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned ROM 5;12

please read the scriptures as they are not with your personal vision

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2012,23:16)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,18:38) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2012,22:32) Marty Quote Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make.  You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state. And how do you reconcile your belief with the following scripture: not God's Christ but the only begotten son of God ,that would be the Christ that is send down from the father to live among men ,and give up his man like live for the live that Adam lost in Eden ,and so saving humanity and all of creation , Pierre Hi Pierre: So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”? And as for your comments relative to if he was just a man he would have been born in sin.  How many infants do you know who are born in sin? Sin by definition is “the transgression of the Law of God”. All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned. Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:   Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”? when Christ was created,that is wen God ad a son ,NO??wen do you have a son ? Quote Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:   Quote All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned. look at your comment and tell me were does it say that any one is sin free;and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned ROM 5;12 please read the scriptures as they are not with your personal vision Pierre

Hi Pierre:

The scripture states that all men have sinned, and that is true, but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false. Again, sin is defined of the transgression of the law, and so, how many infants do you know who have transgressed the law?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2012,11:39)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,21:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:19) Marty, is it possible for God to cause one of His angels to be born of flesh from a human woman?  YES or NO? No. Is it possible for God to cause a human being to be reborn as a spirit being?  YES or NO?

Hi Mike:

I have already answered your question, with scripture,and your theory has proven false, and so, why do you not just admit it.

The scripture states that except a man is born again he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. The man is still a man, but God has now become the Father of his spirit.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Okay Marty,

You have clearly said FOR THE RECORD that God CANNOT cause a spirit being to be born as a human being.

But you have sidetracked the second queston.  Here it is again:

Is it possible for God to cause a human being to be reborn as a spirit being? YES or NO?

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,16:42)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 11 2012,23:16) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 09 2012,18:38) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2012,22:32) Marty Quote Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make.  You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state. And how do you reconcile your belief with the following scripture: not God's Christ but the only begotten son of God ,that would be the Christ that is send down from the father to live among men ,and give up his man like live for the live that Adam lost in Eden ,and so saving humanity and all of creation , Pierre Hi Pierre: So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”? And as for your comments relative to if he was just a man he would have been born in sin.  How many infants do you know who are born in sin? Sin by definition is “the transgression of the Law of God”. All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned. Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:   Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”? when Christ was created,that is wen God ad a son ,NO??wen do you have a son ? Quote Quote Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:   Quote All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned. look at your comment and tell me were does it say that any one is sin free;and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned ROM 5;12 please read the scriptures as they are not with your personal vision Pierre Hi Pierre: The scripture states that all men have sinned, and that is true, but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false.  Again, sin is defined of the transgression of the law, and so, how many infants do you know who have transgressed the law? Love in Christ, Marty

marty

Quote

Hi Pierre: The scripture states that all men have sinned, and that is true, but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false. Again, sin is defined of the transgression of the law, and so, how many infants do you know who have transgressed the law? Love in Christ, Marty

Ro 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
Ro 3:10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
Ro 3:11 there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
Ro 3:12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

Ro 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—

PS 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

I hope this would bring your knowledge up to date

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 12 2012,10:12)

Okay Marty, You have clearly said FOR THE RECORD that God CANNOT cause a spirit being to be born as a human being. But you have sidetracked the second queston.  Here it is again: Is it possible for God to cause a human being to be reborn as a spirit being?  YES or NO?

Mike:

I am not going to answer with a simple yes or no, because it depends what you mean by a spirit being. Christians are born again, but they do not become something other than a man. Prior to being born again a man has a spirit of disobedience.

You as just grasping for straws. Just admit that you were wrong. Jesus was not an angel in a pre-existant state because of the scriptures that I have shown you. That is the issue that we were discussing. God can do whatever He chooses, but he will not do anything contrary to His Word.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,00:50)

I am not going to answer with a simple yes or no, because it depends what you mean by a spirit being.

I refer to a spirit being like an angel of heaven.  Is God able to transform our lowly bodies into a new, spiritual body like the one Jesus and those of heaven have, so that we will be like the angels, just like Jesus taught?

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,00:50)

You as just grasping for straws.  Just admit that you were wrong.  Jesus was not an angel in a pre-existant state because of the scriptures that I have shown you.

Marty, you have NEVER posted a scripture that prohibits Jesus from having glory with his God before the creation of the world.  You have NEVER posted a scripture that prohibits all things from being created through Jesus.

Why not post just one of these scriptures to which you refer, highlighting the very words that PROHIBIT Jesus from existing in the form of God BEFORE being made into the likeness of a human being.

If you are unable to do that, then it is YOU who needs to admit your misunderstanding, and YOU who is grasping at straws.

I'll be waiting.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

marty

Quote

but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false

?

PS 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2012,04:01)

marty Quote but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false ? PS 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Pierre

Hi Pierre:

And so, his mother conceived him in sin. That does not say that David was a sinner as an infant.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2012,12:03)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,00:50) I am not going to answer with a simple yes or no, because it depends what you mean by a spirit being. I refer to a spirit being like an angel of heaven.  Is God able to transform our lowly bodies into a new, spiritual body like the one Jesus and those of heaven have, so that we will be like the angels, just like Jesus taught? Quote (942767 @ Jan. 12 2012,00:50) You as just grasping for straws.  Just admit that you were wrong.  Jesus was not an angel in a pre-existant state because of the scriptures that I have shown you. Marty, you have NEVER posted a scripture that prohibits Jesus from having glory with his God before the creation of the world.  You have NEVER posted a scripture that prohibits all things from being created through Jesus. Why not post just one of these scriptures to which you refer, highlighting the very words that PROHIBIT Jesus from existing in the form of God BEFORE being made into the likeness of a human being. If you are unable to do that, then it is YOU who needs to admit your misunderstanding, and YOU who is grasping at straws. I'll be waiting. peace, mike

Hi Mike:

Is the following scripture the one that you use to say that Jesus was in the form of God before he became a man?

Quote

Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:38)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2012,04:01) marty Quote but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false ? PS 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Pierre Hi Pierre: And so, his mother conceived him in sin.  That does not say that David was a sinner as an infant. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

If you have no sin then you also should not die and I mean literally ,
Because it is only the soul that sins that dies,

So answer now are you a sinner ?

When did you start sinning ?

When did you stopped sinning ?

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,13:00)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:38) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2012,04:01) marty Quote but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false ? PS 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Pierre Hi Pierre: And so, his mother conceived him in sin.  That does not say that David was a sinner as an infant. Love in Christ, Marty Marty If you have no sin then you also should not die and I mean literally , Because it is only the soul that sins that dies, So answer now are you a sinner ? When did you start sinning ? When did you stopped sinning ? Pierre

Hi Pierre:

The scriptures state that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that includes me. I never said that I or anyone else did not sin, but all infants are born in innocence.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,20:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,13:00) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 15 2012,18:38) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2012,04:01) marty Quote but it does not state that all men were born in sin, that is false ? PS 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Pierre Hi Pierre: And so, his mother conceived him in sin.  That does not say that David was a sinner as an infant. Love in Christ, Marty Marty If you have no sin then you also should not die and I mean literally , Because it is only the soul that sins that dies, So answer now are you a sinner ? When did you start sinning ? When did you stopped sinning ? Pierre Hi Pierre: The scriptures state that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that includes me.  I never said that I or anyone else did not sin, but all infants are born in innocence.   Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

we all are born under the curse of dead and in sin ,but as far that a infant goes ,it would depend greatly on his parents wen and how he would sin as a being,but this will not make him sin free because of the curse of Adam sin ,
Ps 78:5 He decreed statutes for Jacob
and established the law in Israel,
which he commanded our forefathers
to teach their children,
Ps 78:6 so the next generation would know them,
even the children yet to be born,
and they in turn would tell their children.

Ps 17:14 O LORD, by your hand save me from such men,
from men of this world whose reward is in this life.
You still the hunger of those you cherish;
their sons have plenty,
and they store up wealth for their children.

Ecc 6:3 A man may have a hundred children and live many years; yet no matter how long he lives, if he cannot enjoy his prosperity and does not receive proper burial, I say that a stillborn child is better off than he.

Pierre

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