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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,01:44) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2011,18:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2011,10:59) Marty, How does “foreordained” EXCLUDE “pre-existed”?
Hi Mike:The scripture in 1 Peter is referring to the man Christ Jesus, and the man, Christ Jesus could have not pre-existed because:
Quote Genesis 3:30 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Love in Christ,
Marty
I agree that Jesus was not a “human” during his pre-existence. And I agree that after existing in the form of God, then emptying himself and being made into a human being, he was then partially of the seed of Eve.I just don't see how anything you've posted teaches that Jesus was never anything BUT a human being.
Hi Mike.Where is in the bilbe mentioned: God emptied himself?
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2011,19:25) Hi Mike: Do you agree that the scripture relative to Jesus being foreordained in the scripture that I quoted from 1 Peter 1 is speaking of Jesus who was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary?
Absolutely. It speaks of his blood, something that doesn't exist in spirit beings.Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,01:21) Hi Mike. Where is in the bilbe mentioned: God emptied himself?
Nowhere. Why?Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2011,20:18) Hi Pierre: Was Jesus born of a woman?
Martywhat is the scriptures saying in the women to bare the children??
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,06:42) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2011,19:25) Hi Mike: Do you agree that the scripture relative to Jesus being foreordained in the scripture that I quoted from 1 Peter 1 is speaking of Jesus who was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary?
Absolutely. It speaks of his blood, something that doesn't exist in spirit beings.
And so according to you, he was a spirit being prior to becoming a man. Was his name Jesus when he was a spirit being?Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2012,15:31) I don't know. There is no reason for me to think it hasn't always been Jesus.
Hi Mike:In the following verses, the scriptures refer to the mind which was in Christ Jesus:
Quote
Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Is this Jesus in his pre-existing state prior to becoming a man?
Love in Christ
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,13:39) Yes Marty.
Hi Mike:Well if this is what you believe then his name was Jesus in his pre-existent state, and was also already God's Christ.
In light of this please explain the following scriptures:
Quote Mat 1:1 ¶ The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Quote Mat 1:18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just [man], and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins
Quote Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Love in Christ,
MartyWhat would you like me to explain, Marty?
If Michael the archangel was to be sent to be born of a human woman, would not all of those same things still be said of him, despite the fact he already was Michael for many years in heaven before he was born of a woman?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,12:39) What would you like me to explain, Marty? If Michael the archangel was to be sent to be born of a human woman, would not all of those same things still be said of him, despite the fact he already was Michael for many years in heaven before he was born of a woman?
Hi Mike:Was Michael the Archangel sent to be born of a woman according to the following scripture?
Quote Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Love in Christ,
MartyHi Mike:
And remember, you also said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existant state not Michael.
Love in Christ,
MartyMy mistake Marty. I don't believe Jesus is Michael, and I never have. I should have said “Gabriel” instead of “Michael”.
My point is that if God decided to take a spirit being who had existed for eons, and bring him to life in flesh through a human woman at a later date, then all the things said in the scriptures you posted could also be said of this being, DESPITE the fact the being ALREADY existed BEFORE this other stuff happened.
In other words, the fact that Jesus WOULD BE BORN of a human, and WOULD BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD, doesn't exclude the fact that he existed BEFORE any of this happened.
I have been telling you this for years now. You have NEVER produced a scripture that would exclude Jesus from pre-existing his becoming human…………..because one simply doesn't exist.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,13:39) My mistake Marty. I don't believe Jesus is Michael, and I never have. I should have said “Gabriel” instead of “Michael”. My point is that if God decided to take a spirit being who had existed for eons, and bring him to life in flesh through a human woman at a later date, then all the things said in the scriptures you posted could also be said of this being, DESPITE the fact the being ALREADY existed BEFORE this other stuff happened.
In other words, the fact that Jesus WOULD BE BORN of a human, and WOULD BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD, doesn't exclude the fact that he existed BEFORE any of this happened.
I have been telling you this for years now. You have NEVER produced a scripture that would exclude Jesus from pre-existing his becoming human…………..because one simply doesn't exist.
Really, Mike:Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make. You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state.
And how do you reconcile your belief with the following scripture:
Quote Luk 1:26 ¶ And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary.
Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.
Luk 1:29 And when she saw [him], she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
Quote Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make. You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state.
And how do you reconcile your belief with the following scripture:
not God's Christ but the only begotten son of God ,that would be the Christ that is send down from the father to live among men ,and give up his man like live for the live that Adam lost in Eden ,and so saving humanity and all of creation ,
Pierre
Marty
If Christ would only be a man then he would be born in sin and so be cursed ,and unable to save anyone ,this is why scriptures tell that it is God that will send his right harm to save ,in the parable of the vineyard it shows that the owner at the end send his son but the workers kill the son ,
so Christ was clear of any sin because he came from above born trough the power of his father God,Marie was just an instrument in this godly action,
just as Jephthah daughter was by the vow of her father,
Pierre
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 07 2012,21:28) Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make. You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state.
Okay Marty,I don't know if you're being difficult on purpose, or if you're really confused.
FORGET THAT I SAID ANY NAME AT ALL, OKAY?
My point is that if God decided to take a spirit being who had existed for eons, and bring him to life in flesh through a human woman at a later date, then all the things said in the scriptures you posted could also be said of this being, DESPITE the fact the being ALREADY existed BEFORE this other stuff happened.
In other words, the fact that Jesus WOULD BE BORN of a human, and WOULD BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD, doesn't exclude the fact that he existed BEFORE any of this happened.
I have been telling you this for years now. You have NEVER produced a scripture that would exclude Jesus from pre-existing his becoming human…………..because one simply doesn't exist.
As far as your Luke passage, please point me DIRECTLY to the verse that prohibits Jesus from existing in heaven BEFORE the thing described takes place.
Do you seriously think God can transform a human being into a spirit being, but He can't do it the other way around?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,03:39) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 07 2012,21:28) Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make. You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state.
Okay Marty,I don't know if you're being difficult on purpose, or if you're really confused.
FORGET THAT I SAID ANY NAME AT ALL, OKAY?
My point is that if God decided to take a spirit being who had existed for eons, and bring him to life in flesh through a human woman at a later date, then all the things said in the scriptures you posted could also be said of this being, DESPITE the fact the being ALREADY existed BEFORE this other stuff happened.
In other words, the fact that Jesus WOULD BE BORN of a human, and WOULD BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD, doesn't exclude the fact that he existed BEFORE any of this happened.
I have been telling you this for years now. You have NEVER produced a scripture that would exclude Jesus from pre-existing his becoming human…………..because one simply doesn't exist.
As far as your Luke passage, please point me DIRECTLY to the verse that prohibits Jesus from existing in heaven BEFORE the thing described takes place.
Do you seriously think God can transform a human being into a spirit being, but He can't do it the other way around?
Hi Mike:No, not being difficult, nor am I confused, just trying to get you to justify what you have stated, which you have not.
And now, you just want me to forget all that you have said, and just accept that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world without any supporting scriptures, just because you say so?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 08 2012,22:32) Marty Quote Really, Mike: Michael, Gabriel what difference does that make. You said that his name was Jesus and was already God's Christ in his pre-existent state.
And how do you reconcile your belief with the following scripture:
not God's Christ but the only begotten son of God ,that would be the Christ that is send down from the father to live among men ,and give up his man like live for the live that Adam lost in Eden ,and so saving humanity and all of creation ,
Pierre
Hi Pierre:So, when did he become “the Only Begotten Son of God”?
And as for your comments relative to if he was just a man he would have been born in sin. How many infants do you know who are born in sin?
Sin by definition is “the transgression of the Law of God”.
All infants are born in innocence, but the difference is that all of us, except Jesus went astray, and sinned.
Quote Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Quote Rom 5:12 ¶ Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Love in Christ,
Marty
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