In Jesus pre-existent state, what was He?

[Ed J]

Hi Everyone,

I'm interested in how this Poll will turn out.
Please try to give Scriptural backing for the points
you wish to make; OK? Let's keep this good and productive.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

This is a hard one to vote for because it didn't have enough options IMO.
Jesus is the Word and was the Word that was with God.
Of course he could well be the angel of the LORD too, as angel means messenger.

We know that he existed in the FORM of God (Not God himself) or with divine nature.

So I would vote Angel of those 3 options, but that could be misleading because he is not necessarily a Cherub or Seraph.
I would say that he is unique, and when we see the Angel of the LORD in scripture, is he not different to the other messengers that went with him?

[mikeboll64]

I agree with t8 that “Angel” is the closest of the choices.  I would have voted for “Spirit Being” or “God's Only Begotten Son” if they were options.

[terraricca]

I agree with you as well T8 ,and Mike, I can not vote on this ;

so I getting out of this topic.
I wander what edj is after to do this ??

Pierre

[Ed J]

Hi PR,

Do you have any biblical passages that might suggest that
there are any other choices? If you do please produce them.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 21 2011,02:26)

Hi PR, Do you have any biblical passages that might suggest that there are any other choices? If you do please produce them. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

did you not read t8 quote ?

and mine that says I agree with him ?

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,21:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 21 2011,02:26) Hi PR, Do you have any biblical passages that might suggest that there are any other choices? If you do please produce them. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj did you not read t8 quote ? and mine that says I agree with him ? Pierre

Hi PR,

You haven't got any Scripture to support what you believe?
Why would you believe something that is not Biblical then?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

edj

Quote

Hi PR, You haven't got any Scripture to support what you believe? Why would you believe something that is not Biblical then? God bless Ed J

yeah I always say that in my mind about you,

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

this is what I believe according to Paul.

Pierre

[Ed J]

Hi PR,

Which part of which verse are you referring to,
and how do you interpret it to mean something
other than the three choices? You are not specific.
I believe what Scripture says too, but not your spin.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

edj

Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth,
when there were no springs abounding with water;
Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

compere those two set of scriptures ,and let me know what is wrong with it ,if anything ,and look up John Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

show me your understanding

Pierre

[Ed J]

Hi PR,

All three of those references are about the “HolySpirit”; and called God in John 1:1, Acts 5:3-5 and Eph.4:4-6.

Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.

You still haven't said what you believe the fourth choice should be; so why don't you now; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,15:55)

edj Quote Hi PR, God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24) Since God is Spirit and the “HolySpirit” is Spirit are they two different spirits according to you? God bless Ed J answer ;YES Pierre

Do you see how Eph.4:4 says “ONE SPIRIT” not two?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 21 2011,09:05)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,15:55) edj Quote Hi PR, God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24) Since God is Spirit and the “HolySpirit” is Spirit are they two different spirits according to you? God bless Ed J answer ;YES Pierre Do you see how Eph.4:4 says “ONE SPIRIT” not two? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

again you have it in reverse;

there is only one God and so one true spirit (will)
but not all men are subdue to the will of God ,this is the call of the gospel,

and when all that is done then there will be only one WILL Gods ,
and so we have to worship God in spirit (mind ,will,and heart)b this is because only the spirit can go to God not the flesh (the flesh counts for nothing)

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2011,03:44)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 21 2011,09:05) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2011,15:55) edj Quote Hi PR, God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24) Since God is Spirit and the “HolySpirit” is Spirit are they two different spirits according to you? God bless Ed J answer ;YES Pierre Do you see how Eph.4:4 says “ONE SPIRIT” not two? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj again you have it in reverse; there is only one God and so one true spirit (will) but not all men are subdue to the will of God ,this is the call of the gospel, and when all that is done then there will be only one WILL Gods , and so we have to worship God in spirit (mind ,will,and heart)b this is because only the spirit can go to God not the flesh (the flesh counts for nothing) Pierre

Hi PR,

Then why did you answer YES to: “are they two different spirits”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Ed, I too go with t8, Mike and Pierre…. Jesus was a Messenger of God.  He did preexist as a Spirit Being.  Believing that John 1:1 is Gods Holy Spirit is not so….. We have to look else where to just see who the Word of God is…. First I look at verse 14 of John 1    
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.  

We should all know who the only begotten of the Father is…. it is not Gods Holy Spirit Ed.  It is who became Jesus….

Then I took a look at

Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  
Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  
Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

It becomes clear in my mind that The Word of God is Jesus.

There is no clear Scripture however if Jesus was an Angel or not, just knowing that He too was a Messenger like all Angels are, that could also be the case with Jesus…… But we also have to remember that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and is more special then all Angels are….. this tells us so

Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?  

Hbr 1:6   And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.  
Hbr 1:7   And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.  
Hbr 1:8   But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.  

Some will take these Scriptures and say Jesus is God, and equal with His Father….. That too is false….God is a title and Jehovah God is above all….

Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.  

Jhn 14:28   Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.  

There are other Scriptures that proof that… just to mention two….Peace Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 20 2011,09:05)

Do you see how Eph.4:4 says “ONE SPIRIT” not two? God bless Ed J

Context Ed.  

Think it out.  If there is literally only ONE spirit, and Paul says the angels are all ministering spirits, then that would mean every angel IS God Himself.

It would mean that the unclean spirit Jehovah sent upon King Saul was Jehovah Himself.

It would mean that Legion, which was a MULTITUDE of individual spirits, would have only really been ONE spirit, and that ONE spirit was Jehovah Himself.  Do you think Jesus expelled Jehovah into the pigs, Ed?

It would mean MY OWN spirit IS Jehovah.

Am I God, Ed?  

Ed, why is it that you focus so hard on Acts 5:3-5, when in verse 9, it is explained that they lied to the Spirit OF God?  

And you focus on Eph.4:4-6, when it is clear that many spirits exist.

I guess I'm wondering how you can base your whole theology about God BEING His own Holy Spirit on two verses you misunderstand, but then turn right around and IGNORE the MANY, MANY verses that say the Holy Spirit is OF God, not God Himself.  

[mikeboll64]

Nice post, Irene. You've summed it up very well.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2011,11:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 20 2011,09:05) Do you see how Eph.4:4 says “ONE SPIRIT” not two? God bless Ed J Context Ed.   Think it out.  If there is literally only ONE spirit, and Paul says the angels are all ministering spirits, then that would mean every angel IS God Himself. It would mean that the unclean spirit Jehovah sent upon King Saul was Jehovah Himself. It would mean that Legion, which was a MULTITUDE of individual spirits, would have only really been ONE spirit, and that ONE spirit was Jehovah Himself.  Do you think Jesus expelled Jehovah into the pigs, Ed? It would mean MY OWN spirit IS Jehovah. Am I God, Ed?   Ed, why is it that you focus so hard on Acts 5:3-5, when in verse 9, it is explained that they lied to the Spirit OF God?   And you focus on Eph.4:4-6, when it is clear that many spirits exist. I guess I'm wondering how you can base your whole theology about God BEING His own Holy Spirit on two verses you misunderstand, but then turn right around and IGNORE the MANY, MANY verses that say the Holy Spirit is OF God, not God Himself.

Hi Mike,

Eph.4:4-6 is referring to the oneness of who God is, not who we are.

The Spirit of God is God's Spirit like the spirit of Mike is Mike's spirit; you are not two, are you?

: why don't you start a thread to present your view?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 21 2011,07:17)

Ed, I too go with t8, Mike and Pierre…. Jesus was a Messenger of God.  He did preexist as a Spirit Being.  Believing that John 1:1 is Gods Holy Spirit is not so….. We have to look else where to just see who the Word of God is…. First I look at verse 14 of John 1     Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.   We should all know who the only begotten of the Father is…. it is not Gods Holy Spirit Ed.  It is who became Jesus…. Then I took a look at Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   It becomes clear in my mind that The Word of God is Jesus. There is no clear Scripture however if Jesus was an Angel or not, just knowing that He too was a Messenger like all Angels are, that could also be the case with Jesus…… But we also have to remember that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and is more special then all Angels are….. this tells us so Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?   Hbr 1:6   And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.   Hbr 1:7   And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.   Hbr 1:8   But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.   Some will take these Scriptures and say Jesus is God, and equal with His Father….. That too is false….God is a title and Jehovah God is above all…. Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.   Jhn 14:28   Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.   There are other Scriptures that proof that… just to mention two….Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

Has your understanding been able to tie Rev.19:11-21 to
Isaiah 63:2-11 as well as you tie other Scriptures together?

                      “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!    
                        And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                
                 
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood.
Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments

Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone

Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God.
Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within

                     But they rebelled, and vexed
                     his HolySpirit: therefore he
                     was turned to be their enemy,
                     and he fought against them.

Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger  
          …and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,
                              that with it He should smite the nations.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Ed, that still does not connect John 1:1-14 together to be Gods Holy Spirit, but the one that is the only begotten Son of the Father, Jesus…..You are also taken Isaiah 63 out of context…. It is talking about God (LORD) His Holy Spirit and Moses….And we also have to remember who the Spokesman of God was… It was Jesus……The Word of God………..

Isa 63:11 ¶ Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?
It was Moses that God gave the Holy Spirit to… By that power Moses parted the Sea… by that power Moses lead the people through the Sea….
What does all of this have to do with Rev . 19? Nothing….

Peace Irene

[Author]

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