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Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,11:47) hi TT 2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
see TT you wrong again,it is addressed to those who accept the message of Christ.
t,It is you who are wrong. Just because Peter is addressing them does NOT imply that everything he says applies to them. Peter CLEARLY referred to the apostles by his use of “us.” He clearly meant common Christians by his use of “you.” This is basic English grammar.
In verse 16 he said that “WE did not follow cunningly devised fables but were eye witnesses of His majesty.” The “we” are CLEARLY the apostles. It was only the apostles who were eye witness of Christ's majesty. The “we” who were the eye witnesses of His majesty are the “us” referred to earlier who had been equipped for the ministry. The “you” refers to those who were under their ministry.
I advised you to post less and listen more and your pride got in the way of my good advise.
YOU NEED WJ'S EXPERTISE. Your view is contradicted throughout the new testament. Paul said that Christ gave some to be pastors for the “equipping of the saints.” Therefore, if you do not sit under an educated pastor you cannot be equipped. Period! The fact that you do not apply simple grammatical rules is the proof of how badly in need you are of an educated pastor in your life.
You bad mouth WJ when you should be thanking God for him. Shame on you!
thinker
hi TT
i am just a fisherman, this should tell you ,but this does as nothing to do with what God has given me ,
and wen someone addresses a letter to a certain group of people and you come along 2000 years later and say to me this is not what it says ,and change the group intended to another and it is the gospel ,were did you go to school?
and WJ will only become a tool for someone to use ,so are engineers,carpenters,welders,doctors,physician,ect.
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,10:14) ED J wrote: Quote ohn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.Pre-exaltation truths do not apply today. Private George Patton became General George Patton. Get my drift?
Jesus has the FULL ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS of the kingdom now.
thinker
Hi Thinker,I do appreciate your response to me but, NO I don't 'get my(your) drift', could you please explain what you mean?
In reference to my point that is, please explain what you mean?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,11:39) t, 1) Novices such as yourself and many others here are not really qualified to comment on scripture.
2) Christians need WJ's expertise. You especially need it. You would show your wisdom by posting less and listening more.
thinker
Hi ThinkingMan,1) Who made you “Judge”? (Matt.7:1-5)
2) What seminary school did Jesus go to? (John 7:15)
How does one learn without asking a question?
And how does one ask a question without a post?Matt.7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,07:56) NH No Phil 2:6 says he was equal to God but did not consider it something to be held onto!
WJ
Hi WJ,“I”, Ed J, have personally have looked into Philippians 2:5-7 in MANY different English Bible translations but,
the specific 'verse' that you have quoted, I have never seen it before in ANY English version of The Bible?Could you “please” tell me which English version of the Bible that you have quoted from?
I already know this will probably be yet another question of mine that will go unanswered;
Because you do not answer questions that you do not like!That is why it bothers you so much when others don't answer the questions that you want them to answer! (Psalm 18:25-27)
And I was right, ThinkingMan did NOT look up those verses that I gave him before, my speculation turned out to be “correct” just as I had figured!
Remember you said, TheThinker was not like that and, that he would actually look up those verses that I gave him.
These last two sentence of mine, “now”, might actually sway you into answering my question?
After all, you wouldn't want me to be right again would you? (Psalm 18:25-27)
Proving others to be right seems to be yet another of your weaknesses,
that is of course when you vehemently disagree! (Prob.14:16)Only “Truth” will do!
Ed J (Rev. 21:8 / Rev.22:18-19)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:39) hi TT
i am just a fisherman, this should tell you ,but this does as nothing to do with what God has given me ,
and wen someone addresses a letter to a certain group of people and you come along 2000 years later and say to me this is not what it says ,and change the group intended to another and it is the gospel ,were did you go to school?and WJ will only become a tool for someone to use ,so are engineers,carpenters,welders,doctors,physician,ect.
t,You have deceived yourself. Peter was very clear:
as His divine power has given to US all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called US by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to US exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU“ (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2010,15:12) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,10:14) ED J wrote: Quote ohn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.Pre-exaltation truths do not apply today. Private George Patton became General George Patton. Get my drift?
Jesus has the FULL ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS of the kingdom now.
thinker
Hi Thinker,I do appreciate your response to me but, NO I don't 'get my(your) drift', could you please explain what you mean?
In reference to my point that is, please explain what you mean?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
And if I explain you will not interact with it. You will evade my points by concocting a “perceived discrepancy.” I never did like dancing. I think my “drift” was plain enough. Now just answer it.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,21:01) This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU“ (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
thinker ……..Is this ever a screwed up post hast to be you worst among many. The US peter was referring was ALL Christians not just the apostles, All our salvation are a common salvation even in sharing in the (EXACTNESS) OF JESUS OUR BROTHER. Your problem is you have listened to to many false teachers in these Churches you attend. I Know i have seen many of them, with first hand experience for proof.Terraricca……is far mot right in this then you are. IMO
TT
no one goes to school and i mean degrees” unless it is for himself ,power trip ,ego,leadership,not humility in Christ,if you do not believe that you got a long way to go for understanding the scriptures.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 16 2010,05:04) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,21:01) This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU” (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
thinker ……..Is this ever a screwed up post hast to be you worst among many. The US peter was referring was ALL Christians not just the apostles, All our salvation are a common salvation even in sharing in the (EXACTNESS) OF JESUS OUR BROTHER. Your problem is you have listened to to many false teachers in these Churches you attend. I Know i have seen many of them, with first hand experience for proof.Terraricca……is far mot right in this then you are. IMO
Gene,Go back to verse 1 dude!
1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To THOSE (christians) who have obtained like precious faith WITH US (the apostles) by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to YOU (christians) in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to US (apostles) all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called US (apostles) by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to US (apostles) exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU (christians) may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Go back to verse one where Peter said that he was addressing THOSE who obtained precious faith with US (the apostles). The common salvation is spoken of in verse one. Then Peter said that God gave US (apostles) all things that pertain to life and godliness. This is not the common salvation but the spiritual “things” which accompanied it for the apostles. The apostles were given all things that pertained to life and godlinesss in order that YOU (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature.
The “us” and the “you” are not the same group of people. Christians do not automatically have all things necessary for life and godliness. They have the Spirit but He does not work outside of the ordained means of preaching and teaching. And it is through these means that they acquire all things necessary for life and godliness.
People like terraricca and yourself are prime examples of what I am saying. You need to put yourselves under the hearing of skilled preaching and teaching if you want to get rid of your kooky ideas and live a godly life.
Verse 16 solidifies what I am saying. Peter said that “WE were eyewitnesses of His majesty.” The “we” were not the Christians Peter addressed. Those Christians were NOT eye witnesses of His majesty. The “we” is CLEARLY a reference to the apostles ALONE and they are the “us” throughout the entire section. THE APOSTLES were given all things that pertain to life and godliness to they could impart the divine nature to Christians THROUGH PREACHING AND TEACHING.
Your view does not jive with the context nor with human experience.Only those who are under the hearing of skilled preaching and teaching have “all things that pertain to life and godliness.” You anti-christians are isolationists and you try to make the scriptures fit with your anti-establishmant and anti-tradition views.
thinker
Thinker……..The US is all INCLUSIVE He says (LIKE FAITH), like who, the (US). In others word the (SAME FAITH). Its all inclusive. Remember where it say the student is (NOT) Above his Master, it is enough that He is (JUST LIKE HIM). We are (JUST LIKE) the apostles and Jesus Christ our LORD. We are Heirs and Joint Heirs with them all including Jesus.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 16 2010,06:10) Thinker……..The US is all INCLUSIVE He says (LIKE FAITH), like who, the (US). In others word the (SAME FAITH). Its all inclusive. Remember where it say the student is (NOT) Above his Master, it is enough that He is (JUST LIKE HIM). We are (JUST LIKE) the apostles and Jesus Christ our LORD. We are Heirs and Joint Heirs with them all including Jesus.
No Gene! Peter did not say “like us.” He said “WITH US.”To those who have obtained like precious faith WITH US by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
The “us” is not all inclusive. The “us” throughout the context is the “we” of verse 16 who were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
The common salvation they had WITH the apostles was NOT those things that pertained to life and godliness. Only the apostles had those things. They had them in order that by their preaching and teaching other christians MAY have them.
…by which have been given to US (apostles) exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU (christians) MAY be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
It clearly says that the apostles had those things so that other christians MAY have them too. The things that pertain to life and godliness must be ACQUIRED. They are acquired through the means of preaching and teaching by COMPOTENT MEN AND WOMEN.
You anti-christians are always bad mouthing educated men like WJ. But without educated men like WJ all christians would be groping in the dark like most here on Heaven Net.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,05:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:39) hi TT
i am just a fisherman, this should tell you ,but this does as nothing to do with what God has given me ,
and wen someone addresses a letter to a certain group of people and you come along 2000 years later and say to me this is not what it says ,and change the group intended to another and it is the gospel ,were did you go to school?and WJ will only become a tool for someone to use ,so are engineers,carpenters,welders,doctors,physician,ect.
t,You have deceived yourself. Peter was very clear:
as His divine power has given to US all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called US by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to US exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU“ (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
So lets all just be ignorant fishermen! Lets not do as Peter and Paul and the other Apostles who when they penned the scriptures were no longer “Ignorant fishermen”, but had grown in his grace and in his knowledge!T forgets that God chose Paul to write 2 thirds of the NT.
Paul was schooled by the best of his day!
t is just proving he/she doesn't need teachers therefore meaning he/she is unteachable.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,06:54) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,05:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:39) hi TT
i am just a fisherman, this should tell you ,but this does as nothing to do with what God has given me ,
and wen someone addresses a letter to a certain group of people and you come along 2000 years later and say to me this is not what it says ,and change the group intended to another and it is the gospel ,were did you go to school?and WJ will only become a tool for someone to use ,so are engineers,carpenters,welders,doctors,physician,ect.
t,You have deceived yourself. Peter was very clear:
as His divine power has given to US all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called US by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to US exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU“ (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
So lets all just be ignorant fishermen! Lets not do as Peter and Paul and the other Apostles who when they penned the scriptures were no longer “Ignorant fishermen”, but had grown in his grace and in his knowledge!T forgets that God chose Paul to write 2 thirds of the NT.
Paul was schooled by the best of his day!
t is just proving he/she doesn't need teachers therefore meaning he/she is unteachable.
WJ
WJ,Even the other disciples were schooled under Jesus' direct tutelage for several years. Paul himself went into seclusion for a few years and schooled himself even more.
Paul said that the Lord gave some to be pastors and teachers for the building up of the saints (Ephesians 4).
He said that some of the members of the body are “teachers” and that other members of the body should not say “I have no need of you” (1 Corinthians 12).
Terraricca and Gene are quilty of this. They say, “I have all things that pertain to life and godliness. I don't need WJ's learning.” Terraricca even sugggested that you are an unbeliever.
This is a blatant anti-social and anti-tradition mentality.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,15:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,06:54) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,05:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:39) hi TT
i am just a fisherman, this should tell you ,but this does as nothing to do with what God has given me ,
and wen someone addresses a letter to a certain group of people and you come along 2000 years later and say to me this is not what it says ,and change the group intended to another and it is the gospel ,were did you go to school?and WJ will only become a tool for someone to use ,so are engineers,carpenters,welders,doctors,physician,ect.
t,You have deceived yourself. Peter was very clear:
as His divine power has given to US all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called US by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to US exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU“ (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
So lets all just be ignorant fishermen! Lets not do as Peter and Paul and the other Apostles who when they penned the scriptures were no longer “Ignorant fishermen”, but had grown in his grace and in his knowledge!T forgets that God chose Paul to write 2 thirds of the NT.
Paul was schooled by the best of his day!
t is just proving he/she doesn't need teachers therefore meaning he/she is unteachable.
WJ
WJ,Even the other disciples were schooled under Jesus' direct tutelage for several years. Paul himself went into seclusion for a few years and schooled himself even more.
Paul said that the Lord gave some to be pastors and teachers for the building up of the saints (Ephesians 4).
He said that some of the members of the body are “teachers” and that other members of the body should not say “I have no need of you” (1 Corinthians 12).
Terraricca and Gene are quilty of this. They say, “I have all things that pertain to life and godliness. I don't need WJ's learning.” Terraricca even sugggested that you are an unbeliever.
This is a blatant anti-social and anti-tradition mentality.
thinker
JackI don't think T likes my name “WorshippingJesus” or my avatar!
I think he/she favours you avatar more maybe because she/he thinks you are better looking!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,07:29) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,15:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,06:54) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 15 2010,05:01) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:39) hi TT
i am just a fisherman, this should tell you ,but this does as nothing to do with what God has given me ,
and wen someone addresses a letter to a certain group of people and you come along 2000 years later and say to me this is not what it says ,and change the group intended to another and it is the gospel ,were did you go to school?and WJ will only become a tool for someone to use ,so are engineers,carpenters,welders,doctors,physician,ect.
t,You have deceived yourself. Peter was very clear:
as His divine power has given to US all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called US by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to US exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these YOU may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
This is as clear as a bell! Peter said that “US” (the apostles) had received all things that pertain to life and godliness. He said that “US” (the apostles) had been called and had received precious promises in order that “YOU“ (christians) might be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Without the sound teaching and instruction men and women who have been educated and have been called by God the “common Chrisitan” cannot be equipped with what is needed to walk a spiritual life. Your mentality which says, “I don't need them because I have the Holy Spirit” is erroneous. If you have the Holy Spirit then you would put yourself under the teaching of an educated pastor and other spiritual men. If you don't you are not guided by the Holy Spirit at all.
Come on! You don't even know the difference between “us” and “you.”
thinker
So lets all just be ignorant fishermen! Lets not do as Peter and Paul and the other Apostles who when they penned the scriptures were no longer “Ignorant fishermen”, but had grown in his grace and in his knowledge!T forgets that God chose Paul to write 2 thirds of the NT.
Paul was schooled by the best of his day!
t is just proving he/she doesn't need teachers therefore meaning he/she is unteachable.
WJ
WJ,Even the other disciples were schooled under Jesus' direct tutelage for several years. Paul himself went into seclusion for a few years and schooled himself even more.
Paul said that the Lord gave some to be pastors and teachers for the building up of the saints (Ephesians 4).
He said that some of the members of the body are “teachers” and that other members of the body should not say “I have no need of you” (1 Corinthians 12).
Terraricca and Gene are quilty of this. They say, “I have all things that pertain to life and godliness. I don't need WJ's learning.” Terraricca even sugggested that you are an unbeliever.
This is a blatant anti-social and anti-tradition mentality.
thinker
JackI don't think T likes my name “WorshippingJesus” or my avatar!
I think he/she favours you avatar more maybe because she/he thinks you are better looking!
WJ
Keith,I applaud you for taking it in stride. I was quite perturbed about the things that t said regarding you.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 16 2010,08:00) Hi TT,
It must be nice having company walking away from truth.
There is not biblical trinity.
My company is all of creation (Rev. 5:13). You are the DISSENTER Nick.thinker
Hi TT and WJ
you guys got it wrong again,all my live as a pro-worker I have given and helped engineers,architect,while in school or out of school,I like educated people but if they use their knowledge to be over running there fellow men, that's were i drop my support,
there are many ways a person (educated)can use and abuse with his knowledge the humble in hearth.
i do not mean you guys doing just that,but the truth as to the truth so your knowledge as to be in line with the Godly truth,other wise people being impressed by your status maybe influenced just like the Pharisees did in Jesus time ,
but i never pay attention to the outside of a person ,it is the inside that i look,
this means what the person says and how he acts.and at the same time my name is Peter ,
but what ever you do i can not be influenced by it unless it would be the truth of God.
so far you have only support your believe in the trinity.
this believe is not teaches by the apostles or Christ .so it can not be trusted.but if you want to teach me how to be come closer to God by following false doctrines is that good, do you expect me to give up truth for a lie?
terraricca said:
Quote but if you want to teach me how to be come closer to God by following false doctrines is that good, do you expect me to give up truth for a lie? t,
Now you're changing your tune. First you said that you didn't need an educated man to teach you because you said you have all things that pertain to life and godliness. But now you're saying that WJ could teach you how to walk closer to God.
thinker
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