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Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,17:57) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 15 2010,14:26) Mike, God knows the heart of each and every one of us. Probably better than even we ourselves know ourselves! Go easy on yourself and others God knows you well. Know that you are treasured to Him:)
Oh, no my friend . If you know how wrong things are in a particular Church and still participate with them, then you are part of their punishment. Not that I am judging anyone. Just in general. If I know that it is wrong and still do it, its twice as bad as if I did not know. But He does know and still stays. That to me is I am sorry a hypocrite to say the least. We here on Heaven Net know what that Church stands for. At least most do. The Word of God is special to me and when I see something so wrong I cringe…..To please Mom and Dad, what does Scripture say about that? If you honor Mother and Father, Sister or Brother more then Me, you are not worthy of Me. Who said that? I think you know…..Irene
Hi Irene, I havent followed this thread, I prayed for Mike for the words to say before posting, He is treasured by God. Maybe now I will go back to the start and read.Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 15 2010,08:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2010,09:01) Mikeangel, You are assuming that “church” means and organized religion which is not the case. Church is the assembly of the faithful which is to say those that watch their doctrine and life as Paul instructed Timothy. 1 Timothy 4:16. An assembly of those who follow a false doctrine would not qualify as Jesus’ church.
Ok Kerwin, an assembly. In 1 Timothy, he gives instructions concerning overseers, deacons, and later elders, which he terms” church”.Also later in his letters he instructs the faithful to not absent themselves from assembling with other believers. Which “Assembly” would you suggest I go? Which one do you attend?
I will need to do some research to test that what I say is correct but I am presently of the opinion that the assembly of Christ should have people that exercise authority for the good of God within its ranks.I agree that true believers should not give up assembling with one another and I hope that all believers are blessed with others that know true doctrine of Jesus.
I do know that Jesus taught us that when two or more of those the truly believe in him he will be their also. But even then I believe the more the merrier.
I pity the individual that is alone and has not one else around that follows the true gospel.
I leave it to you to do what you believe is best in your situation with the guidance of God.
I do not attend any church at present as I still look for one that teaches what I believe is the truth of God.
(sigh)- I just wish I knew the answers it is such a confusing world today. Mike, my parents are Catholic, my Father helps with the eucharist up the front and also takes it to the elderly in their homes (well He used to every Sunday), my Mother plays the music for the church. I have a Cousin in Ireland who runs a mission, I think hes a Father/Priest. All my family are Catholic, in Ireland, the rest on the other side are Baptist here in NZ. My Mum was a Baptist but when my Dad started going back to the Catholic church regularly He told her she had to become Catholic too. They had a meeting with the Priest who told her this. She prayed about it and believed God allowed it to be so became Catholic.
I never did. I was Baptised in some church cant even remember what it was lol. I was 15, some denomination. Me and my friends.
I used to try tell her its wrong to have statues, and that the bible says to call no man your Father, then theres all the hail May's etc, she agrees and is against all of that but she remains there, she believes that in Revelations Jesus tells his people to stay put untill he returns, and that they are lukewarm.
I dont know the answers. I know what others are saying here, im no part of any church though I tried to look for one for a long time and did join the adventists for a while, but there were things there which I started to question so gradually stopped going. It gets lonely though. I have family to keep company (7 of us here at our house) but they dont talk much about God, only my Parents do. Anyone else I know just talk about life, kids, and so on.
I just wish there was the church or group of people out there who had the truth, who had love and all it should be. I too cant wait till the Lord comes and the truth is revealed! I hope its not too long,
Irene, George, and Kerwin,
I still haven't got an answer to the basic questions I inquired of. To all three of you: Sinse Paul said in the inspired word of God not to absent yourselves from assembling, What assembly of christians do you attend? Do you assemble with other christians(at least two) and rember Jesus with communion? Are you so critical of others faults that you find faults with all other churches or assemblys? To Irene and georg- You do not answer my question on the “taw' in Ezekiel. I think for the third time I will repeat the question. Me being Catholic and wrong is not an answer. Why would God in Ezekiel 9 in the original text tell the man with the writing case to mark the ones to be spared with a 'taw', which is a cross, if the cross was the sign of the beast? If yall were the leaders of my “assembly”, and you preached this, and I followed your intruuctions in finding fault with a assembly and leaving, wouldn't that mean I would have to leave your assembly for you teaching false doctrine? GodblessMikeangel,
I am willing to accept as the church of Jesus the Anointed the assembly that preaches the true teachings of Jesus who is the head of the gathering of those whom believe. Until God either leads me to such a church or lead that church to me then I will do as I believe is best hoping that God is leading me. Ideally, I would I prefer a gathering that both taught and lived the true gospel of the Anointed. For this reason I test the teachings of what I hear.
Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,04:54) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 15 2010,03:49) Kerwin………> both you and Mikeangel are wrong , The ROCK Jesus mentioned there is GOD the FATHER who has the POWER to OPEN up the Mind of Man and cause Him to understand the Truth and that is the (POWER) that Builds the Church. It was not Jesus or Peter that was the ROCK Mentioned there, But GOD ALONE> “Peter who do you say i am , Peter responded you are the son of the living GOD, (BLESSED) are you Simon Barjona , (because flesh and blood) {Jesus was flesh and blood} did (not) reaveal that unto you, but my Father who is in heaven has reavealed it unto you, and I say your are Peter {Jesus had that ability to reconize who Peter was also} and upon (THIS ROCK) I shall build the Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
What ROCK was that, It is the (POWER) of GOD the FATHER to get inside the MIND of PEOPLE and REAVEAL the TRUTH to THEM, AS HE DID PETER AND JESUS that is the power Jesus uses to build the Church. GOD The FATHER is the ROCK being Mentioned there. No one else.
When are you people going to start to understand ?
Peace and love……………….gene
Gene! Tell me who is the Head of the Church? It is Christ. He is the rock, and not Peter, or our Heavenly Father. Christ is the Head of the Church. He will come again and marry His Bride the Church.. The Church is spiritual at this time…
When He comes again He will claim His Church. Nowhere in Scriptures tells us that it is the Father.
Let us look at this Scripture in
Math. 16:18
Even though it looks like it is Peter, however when you read Jesus says on that Rock I will built MY CHURCH. He says it is His Church and not Peter's Church. We really should all know that. Jesus said that He will come and marry His Church. In
Ephesians 5:23 For the Husband is the head of the Wife, as also CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH; and He is the Savior of the body. It is so confusing to some because they don't know this Scripture.
Clear to me…..
We have to remember that our Heavenly Father has given Christ all the power that He needs to do the Fathers will. The Father is not coming down to earth as yet. Jesus will rule until all is done. Then He will give the kingdom back to His Father so God can be all in all. 1Corinth, 15:28.
Peace adn Love Irene
Irene……..Jesus is the head of the Church, placed there (BY) the ROCK GOD the FATHER. GOD the FATHER is the (ONLY) TRUE ROCK. He brings those who are being saved to Jesus and Jesus Accepts them and in no Way will reject them. GOD is the ROCK That is the ONE who builds the Church. Jesus plainly said He was using that (POWER) to Build the Church.I have very clearly explained it from Jesus Owns Word , the question is why can't you understand it. IMO
Gene I will answer you first. If you would have read my post you would know that there is a Scripture that shows us that Christ is the Head of the Church.
Ephesians 5:23 For the Husband is the Head of the Wife, as also Christ is the Head of the Church; and He is the Savior of the body.
Then in Rev. 19 starting in verse5-7 talks about the marriage of the Lamb… Please read it all. No the Father will only come down to Earth with the New Jerusalem, when Christ has put all into remission, Then He will give the Kingdom back to His Father, So God can be all in all. 1 Corinth.15:28. The Father has all power and given it to His Son, to judge etc. If you have a Scripture that says that the father is the Head of the Church then show me… otherwise for ever hold your peace…IreneQuote (mikeangel @ Mar. 16 2010,00:32) Irene, George, and Kerwin,
I still haven't got an answer to the basic questions I inquired of. To all three of you: Sinse Paul said in the inspired word of God not to absent yourselves from assembling, What assembly of christians do you attend? Do you assemble with other christians(at least two) and rember Jesus with communion? Are you so critical of others faults that you find faults with all other churches or assemblys? To Irene and georg- You do not answer my question on the “taw' in Ezekiel. I think for the third time I will repeat the question. Me being Catholic and wrong is not an answer. Why would God in Ezekiel 9 in the original text tell the man with the writing case to mark the ones to be spared with a 'taw', which is a cross, if the cross was the sign of the beast? If yall were the leaders of my “assembly”, and you preached this, and I followed your intruuctions in finding fault with a assembly and leaving, wouldn't that mean I would have to leave your assembly for you teaching false doctrine? Godbless
Mike! I thought I explained in detail why, we are not attending a Church. When Paul made that statement the time was much different then it is now. There is no Church that teaches the truth. And the Church who's Head is Christ Ephes. 5:23 the True Church at this time is Spiritual. Participating with doctrine of the trinity or the Old Covenant, Rev. teaches us to come out of Her my People. Of all people you have to ask that question when you honor more you Mother and Father , then Christ? Christ said if you love honor Mother , Father, Sister of Brother more then Me you are not worthy of Me.
Also when you are in a Church that teaches the trinity, this is what Scriptures tel you/
First I like to say the the trinity is not of God but a man made doctrine. It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who first came up with it. He was born in 155 A,D, to Pagan Parents. And Constantine put instituted most,
Math. 15:9 “In vain they do worship Me teaching the doctrine and commandment of men.' So if you and others belong to Churches that teaches that you worship in vain according to Scriptures. That is why we are not going to any Church. Here in our City that is what mostly the Churches believe. Then there is the Churches that teach the Old Covenant
Exodus 34:27 The Lord said to Moses write these words according tot his tenor of these words I HAVE MADE A COVENANT WITH YOU AND WITH ISRAEL.
verse28 So He was with there within the Lord for forty nights and forty days, he nether drank water or ate bread.
AND HE WROTE ON THE TABLET THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMANTMENTS.That is the Old Covenant. We are are under the New Covenant in
Luke 22:20 …..”This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.Then Christ gives us the great commandment s in
Math. 33:37 ” You should love the LORD your God with all of your Heart and with all of your soul and all of you mind.
verse 38 “This is the frist and great commandment.
verse 39 “And the second is just like it; you shall love your neighbor as yourself,”
verse 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”Can you see the difference in the two. The Sabbath was a sign between the Children of Israel and God. We were never under it as Gentiles.
Exodus 31:16-17 read it. Prove all things, 2 Thess.5:21That is why my friend we go to no organized Church. Today it is more a Business than anything else.
Mike I hope you read all of this….
IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,12:44) There is no Church that teaches the truth.
IreneAre you God? How do you know this?
Jesus said where 2 or 3 were gathered together “in his name (not in perfect doctrine) there he would be in the midst of them. So you think that he cannot be in the midst of hundreds? Was Jesus telling a lie?
Does he mean that he will only be in the midst of the Church that is perfect or has perfect doctrine?
Do you have to agree in doctrine perfectly to keep the Unity of the Spirit until we all come to the Unity of the faith? Eph 4:3-13
It seems that you are simply making excuses for forsaking the assembling of yourself with other believers and whats worst, encouraging others to do so! Heb 10:25
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2010,04:53) Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,12:44) There is no Church that teaches the truth.
IreneAre you God? How do you know this?
Jesus said where 2 or 3 were gathered together “in his name (not in perfect doctrine) there he would be in the midst of them. So you think that he cannot be in the midst of hundreds? Was Jesus telling a lie?
Does he mean that he will only be in the midst of the Church that is perfect or has perfect doctrine?
Do you have to agree in doctrine perfectly to keep the Unity of the Spirit until we all come to the Unity of the faith? Eph 4:3-13
It seems that you are simply making excuses for forsaking the assembling of yourself with other believers and whats worst, encouraging others to do so! Heb 10:25
Blessings WJ
W.J. I am sorry to offend you, but you cannot out do one Scripture over the other. When I am with other People and we think and talk about God there in the Mids of us is God, I know that. However and I am not judging you in any of this. It is what my believe is and if you wan to do what you want to do, it is up to you, I except that. However do you except what I am saying? By your post I don't think so. I have given Scriptures many times about the trinity and that is what I go by.
I think y0u know all about who first came up with the trinity and the Apostles and the first Christians did not keep it. Look I do respect you as a person and with some of your believes I agree with. But not with the trinity. I wish with all of my heart that all of us would be united in all of the truth, it is not yet. But the time will come when only the truth will be taught, by Christ and His Saints…..To that time I am forever looking forward to…..And no I am not making excusses for not assembling with others. You have no idea how much I miss fellowship with other likeminded Christians….
Why God let this happen is up to God and I am excepting that. I am not judging you and I expect the same from you……will you?
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 16 2010,11:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2010,04:53) Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,12:44) There is no Church that teaches the truth.
IreneAre you God? How do you know this?
Jesus said where 2 or 3 were gathered together “in his name (not in perfect doctrine) there he would be in the midst of them. So you think that he cannot be in the midst of hundreds? Was Jesus telling a lie?
Does he mean that he will only be in the midst of the Church that is perfect or has perfect doctrine?
Do you have to agree in doctrine perfectly to keep the Unity of the Spirit until we all come to the Unity of the faith? Eph 4:3-13
It seems that you are simply making excuses for forsaking the assembling of yourself with other believers and whats worst, encouraging others to do so! Heb 10:25
Blessings WJ
W.J. I am sorry to offend you, but you cannot out do one Scripture over the other. When I am with other People and we think and talk about God there in the Mids of us is God, I know that. However and I am not judging you in any of this. It is what my believe is and if you wan to do what you want to do, it is up to you, I except that. However do you except what I am saying? By your post I don't think so. I have given Scriptures many times about the trinity and that is what I go by.
I think y0u know all about who first came up with the trinity and the Apostles and the first Christians did not keep it. Look I do respect you as a person and with some of your believes I agree with. But not with the trinity. I wish with all of my heart that all of us would be united in all of the truth, it is not yet. But the time will come when only the truth will be taught, by Christ and His Saints…..To that time I am forever looking forward to…..And no I am not making excusses for not assembling with others. You have no idea how much I miss fellowship with other likeminded Christians….
Why God let this happen is up to God and I am excepting that. I am not judging you and I expect the same from you……will you?
Peace and Love Irene
ireneyou explain it as per my heart as well,i feel the same,you just express it bether than i can,
thank you
Kerwin, irene,
Your answers have made my point and the title of this thread better than any statement I could make. You both express that there is no church that follows all of the doctrines of the bible. Hense the name, Imperfect church. Thank-you. Godbless.Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 16 2010,14:06) Kerwin, irene,
Your answers have made my point and the title of this thread better than any statement I could make. You both express that there is no church that follows all of the doctrines of the bible. Hense the name, Imperfect church. Thank-you. Godbless.
Mike You are so funny. It is the Catholic Church that started all of the wrong doctrines. Out of Her came all of others. However I think the Catholic Church is the wrose one of all. Because of all the worship to Maria and the Mass is a great abomination to God, so don't flatter yourself. You did not score at all.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,19:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2010,04:53) Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,12:44) There is no Church that teaches the truth.
IreneAre you God? How do you know this?
Jesus said where 2 or 3 were gathered together “in his name (not in perfect doctrine) there he would be in the midst of them. So you think that he cannot be in the midst of hundreds? Was Jesus telling a lie?
Does he mean that he will only be in the midst of the Church that is perfect or has perfect doctrine?
Do you have to agree in doctrine perfectly to keep the Unity of the Spirit until we all come to the Unity of the faith? Eph 4:3-13
It seems that you are simply making excuses for forsaking the assembling of yourself with other believers and whats worst, encouraging others to do so! Heb 10:25
Blessings WJ
W.J. I am sorry to offend you, but you cannot out do one Scripture over the other. When I am with other People and we think and talk about God there in the Mids of us is God, I know that. However and I am not judging you in any of this. It is what my believe is and if you wan to do what you want to do, it is up to you, I except that. However do you except what I am saying? By your post I don't think so. I have given Scriptures many times about the trinity and that is what I go by.
I think y0u know all about who first came up with the trinity and the Apostles and the first Christians did not keep it. Look I do respect you as a person and with some of your believes I agree with. But not with the trinity. I wish with all of my heart that all of us would be united in all of the truth, it is not yet. But the time will come when only the truth will be taught, by Christ and His Saints…..To that time I am forever looking forward to…..And no I am not making excusses for not assembling with others. You have no idea how much I miss fellowship with other likeminded Christians….
Why God let this happen is up to God and I am excepting that. I am not judging you and I expect the same from you……will you?
Peace and Love Irene
IreneI am not offended nor am I judging. I think that is what you were doing!
I was only responding to your statement…
Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 15 2010,12:44) There is no Church that teaches the truth.
There is no “perfect Church” yet!What makes you think that because a Church believes in the Trinity that Jesus doesn't come in their midst or they are not teaching the truth.
You criticize Churches yet you fail to see that it is because of these Churches that the majority of those getting saved as well as the majority of food and clothes and ministering to the needs of the poor in the world come from them and not from scattered separatist.
Most people that I know who do not go to Church seldom give any thing to the ministering of the poor or needy!
It would do you well to look at the positives that the Christian Churches are doing rather than black balling them because you do not believe in the Trinity.
Again, most of the charitable giving in the world is through Trinitarian Churches as well as most that get saved!
I think that speaks loudly about what they believe!
By their fruits you shall know them!
Blessings WJ
Mikeangel,
Please do not misunderstand what I have written since all I am saying is that I have not found the true church as of yet. I believe it is out there somewhere. In Revelation 12 we are told that “the woman was given two wings like and eagle where she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert.” At the right time she will come forth once more but as for now there apears to be many of her children that are scattered among the nations.
To all,
God chose to revael to me that in Paul's letter to Titus he wrote something that seems relevant to this thread so I am sharing it.
Titus 2:1(NIV) reads:
Quote You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2010,16:17) To all, God chose to revael to me that in Paul's letter to Titus he wrote something that seems relevant to this thread so I am sharing it.
Titus 2:1(NIV) reads:
Quote You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine
KWthe scriptures have been reveal to any one who put his heart to God and stay in communion with God and the teachings of his word.if you teach this is advise;
Tit 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Tit 1:10 For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group.
Tit 1:11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.this also get rid of speculations and opinions
this is what i think
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2010,18:12) You criticize Churches yet you fail to see that it is because of these Churches that the majority of those getting saved as well as the majority of food and clothes and ministering to the needs of the poor in the world come from them and not from scattered separatist. Most people that I know who do not go to Church seldom give any thing to the ministering of the poor or needy!
It would do you well to look at the positives that the Christian Churches are doing rather than black balling them because you do not believe in the Trinity.
Again, most of the charitable giving in the world is through Trinitarian Churches as well as most that get saved!
I think that speaks loudly about what they believe!
By their fruits you shall know them!
Blessings WJ
I actually think I agree with this, I think that by sitting at home what exactly am I doing? Iv seen Catholics etc out there eg in countries of War feeding the hungry, looking after the sick, speaking out for Human rights and needs. They would be blessed by God.And look at you Mike, getting up early going to the Mission, and cooking for those in need:)
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