- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi,
This philosophy has always found great populkarity among the godless. It infiltrates alot of traditional religions too IMHO.From wikipedia re religion
“Humanism clearly rejects deference to supernatural beliefs in resolving human affairs but not necessarily the beliefs themselves; indeed some strains of Humanism are compatible with some religions. It is generally compatible with atheism and agnosticism but doesn't require either of these. The word “ignostic” (American) or “indifferentist” (British, including OED) are sometimes applied to Humanism, on the grounds that Humanism is an ethical process, not a dogma about the existence or otherwise of gods; Humanists simply have no need to be concerned with such questions. Agnosticism or atheism on their own do not necessarily entail Humanism; many different and sometimes incompatible philosophies happen to be atheistic in nature. There is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere, and not all are humanistic.[4][5]
As Humanism encompasses intellectual currents running through a wide variety of philosophical and religious thought, several strains of Humanism allow it to fulfill, supplement or supplant the role of religions, and in particular, to be embraced as a complete life stance. For more on this, see Humanism (life stance). In a number of countries, for the purpose of laws that give rights to “religions”, the secular life stance has become legally recognized as equivalent to a “religion” for this purpose.[6] In the United States, the Supreme Court recognized that Humanism is equivalent to a religion in the limited sense of authorizing Humanists to conduct ceremonies commonly carried out by officers of religious bodies. The relevant passage is in a footnote to Torcaso v. Watkins (1961). It is often alleged by fundamentalist critics of Humanism that the Supreme Court “declared Humanism to be a religion,” however the Court's statement, a mere footnote at most, clearly does not in fact do so; it simply asserts an equivalency of Humanists' right to act in ways usual to a religion, such as ceremonial recognition of life's landmarks.
Renaissance humanism, and its emphasis on returning to the sources, contributed to the Protestant reformation by helping to gain what Protestants believe was a more accurate translation of Biblical texts.”
Hi,
Perhaps we should separate Secular Humanism.
[wikipedia]
When humanists use the phrase secular humanism it is typically to emphasize differences relative to religion or religious humanism.[citation needed]There are a number of ways in which secular and religious humanism can differ:[3]
Religious humanists may value rituals and ceremonies as means of affirming their life stance. Secular humanists are typically not interested in using rituals and ceremonies.[4]
Some religious humanists may seek profound “religious” experiences, such as those that others would associate with the presence of God, despite interpreting these experiences differently. Secular humanists would generally not pursue such experiences solely for their own sake.
Some varieties of nontheistic religious humanism may conceive of the word divine as more than metaphoric even in the absence of a belief in a traditional God; they may believe in ideals that transcend physical reality; or they may conceive of some experiences as “numinous” or uniquely religious. Secular humanism regards all such terms as, at best, metaphors for truths rooted in the material world.
Some varieties of religious humanism, such as Christian humanism include belief in God, traditionally defined. Secular humanism is skeptical about God and the supernatural and believes that these are not useful concepts for addressing human problems.[citation needed]
While some humanists embrace calling themselves secular humanists, others prefer the term Humanist, capitalized and without any qualifying adjective. The terms secular humanism and Humanism overlap, but have different connotations. The term secular humanism emphasizes a non-religious focus, whereas the term Humanism deemphasizes this and may even encompass some nontheistic varieties of religious humanism. The term Humanism also emphasizes considering one's humanism to be a life stance.[citation needed]Secular humanism advocates secularism but is a broader concept. Secularism has a number of usages but generally emphasizes limits on the role of religious or supernatural considerations in the affairs of society or government. Secular humanism adds to these positions a comprehensive perspective on life, including affirmation of human dignity and the importance of ethics.[citation needed]
Secular humanism is a broad philosophic position and not simply a statement about belief or non-belief in God. Accordingly, it is inaccurate to identify secular humanism as being the same thing as nontheism, atheism, or agnosticism. While secular humanists are generally nontheistic, atheist, or agnostic, the converse may not be true. Many nontheists, atheists, and agnostics adhere to the tenets of secular humanism, but this is not intrinsically the case.[5]
Secular humanism has appeal to atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, empiricists, rationalists, skeptics and materialists, as well as to some Unitarians, Buddhists, Hindus and Confucians.[citation needed]
Christian fundamentalist opponents of humanism typically use the term secular humanism pejoratively to mean atheism or secularism or to lump together all nontheistic varieties of humanism. Humanists object to such usage, finding it misleading or overly broad.[citation needed]
more here
http://www.jcn.com/humanism.php4Hi,
Humanism is well shown in Rom 1” 16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
Those that serve the creature rather than the Creator are cursed with being controlled by their lusts and sin, especially sexual sin is the fruit.
I was surpised to see this thread had 40 hits but only three responses. Then, I was even more surprised to see that the three responses were from the same person who started the thread – Nick!
Quote Secular humanism has appeal to atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, empiricists, rationalists, skeptics and materialists, as well as to some Unitarians, Buddhists, Hindus and Confucians.[ “Freethinkers”…..goodness, doesn't God want us to use the brain he gave us to think?
Nick, there are some pretty convincing arguments against the Bible being the word-for-Word-of God. Are we not to “prove all things” and what if we prove that some of what is contained in this book is not true (ie; 1 John 5:7)? We must be able to think outside the box and come to some conclusions.
Quote 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
Geewhiz, this describes most of us here!
Nick…..there are things written in the bible that were not in the original scriptures, retaining God in our knowledge does not mean we need to believe everything we read as absolutely true and accurate. It's almost impossible to translate one language into another without error, not to mention the scriptures were influenced by trinitarian idology's . I agree with Mandy, God gaves us brains and we need to use them.
IMO…………gene
nick wrote:[/quote]
Nick,
Ever read this famous sermon? I think you would like it, it expresses a lot of your puritanical views on God. I put down a brief excerpt for flavor.SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD
by Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758)
July 8, 1741–Their foot shall slide in due time–
Deut. xxxii. 35“The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.”
Cato,
Wow. I'm speechless, almost….
See I am beginning to let go of fear. The fear that keeps me in bondage to every dried stroke of the pen. I'm finding that the loving but just God that I know does not match what has been written of him (totally). There is a freedom in this like none I have ever known.
Even this morning I have been contemplating why it is that every time I am near the ocean – I am at peace. There is something about the waves that brings a rush of peace over my whole being. Sometimes I wonder if we didn't really come from those glorious waves? Why couldn't evolution be the act of God? It could, couldn't it? It sure would connect some of the dots in my mind.
I guess I should have prefaced this blog by saying it is only for freethinkers!
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 08 2008,03:38) Nick…..there are things written in the bible that were not in the original scriptures, retaining God in our knowledge does not mean we need to believe everything we read as absolutely true and accurate. It's almost impossible to translate one language into another without error, not to mention the scriptures were influenced by trinitarian idology's . I agree with Mandy, God gaves us brains and we need to use them. IMO…………gene
Amen!I think there is fear in leaving the teachings of Mother Church. There is fear attached to the possibility that the bible is flawed. You have to be able to stand back and take a good, long look at the words objectively. Most folks do not have this ability. Fear rules their obedience instead of loving devotion. I speak from experience on this one.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 08 2008,05:30) Cato, Wow. I'm speechless, almost….
See I am beginning to let go of fear. The fear that keeps me in bondage to every dried stroke of the pen. I'm finding that the loving but just God that I know does not match what has been written of him (totally). There is a freedom in this like none I have ever known.
Even this morning I have been contemplating why it is that every time I am near the ocean – I am at peace. There is something about the waves that brings a rush of peace over my whole being. Sometimes I wonder if we didn't really come from those glorious waves? Why couldn't evolution be the act of God? It could, couldn't it? It sure would connect some of the dots in my mind.
I guess I should have prefaced this blog by saying it is only for freethinkers!
I figured Fire and Brimstone would be right up Nick's alley.I think one of God's prime rules is freedom. I believe he gave us free will and it is a sin to deny it. I agree with the U.S. Declaration of Independence when, “It is these truths that we hold a Self-Evident that all Men are Created Equal and Endowed by their Creator with certain Inalienable Rights [among these] are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” It appears that many at this site would disagree.
God created nature and its laws why wouldn't he work his will through the means of his own creation. Only God himself exists outside the boundary of such laws. Evolution of some kind perhaps not exactly to Darwin but something like it appears to be part of nature I don't see how it is opposed to God in any way.
Reason and contemplation can lead one to God, Nick and Stu both not withstanding. You will find your faith stronger now for it isn't tied to text you don't fully trust and so can not be broken when parts of that text are found wanting. Those who eschew reason fall into the trap of the foolish or the fanatic. As Adolph Hitler once mused, “What luck for rulers that men do not think.” or perhaps what is more scary to comtemplate, “By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell — and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed”.
Hi cato,
God in His mercy does rescue many outside of the way of Jesus and wishes for none to perish.
But nowhere does it say that those who just revel in their vain thoughts can find their own way to God.
It depends on how such knowledge is used – to glorify and thank the amazing God of creation.
To follow other human religions in the hope that those who formed them knew God is folly.Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Quote (Cato @ April 08 2008,06:11) By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell — and hell heaven.
This appears to be the case with Stu. He would rather not even entertain heaven if it comes with all the other regulations against humanity…..heaven becomes hell.
Hmmm Interesting.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2008,06:24) But nowhere does it say that those who just revel in their vain thoughts can find their own way to God.
With all due respect, I think you misunderstand Cato once again.Pondering nature and using your reason to find God or discover God, is not “vain thoughts.”
Hi mandy,
It is the response to that knowledge that matters.
If you read on in Rom 1 you will see that those who are not humbled by what they see of God in creation and drawn to submit to and worship him and give Him glory become the reverse, God haters.28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Hi Nick,
But again, this is an instance where you are listening to the dried ink instead of your living, breathing brother. Cato is none of the things that Romans suggests. Nor did he encourage vain thoughts. Read his post again. I think you are glossing over what he is saying, sort of like someone who says they are listening but they are really thinking of what they will say in rebuttal. I could be wrong. But you have jumped to this wrong conclusions before with Cato. What you are saying doesn't quite match what he is suggesting, in my opinion.
Hi not3,
You should not assume we are speaking of cato but rather the consequences of philosophical thought.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2008,06:24) Hi cato,
God in His mercy does rescue many outside of the way of Jesus and wishes for none to perish.
But nowhere does it say that those who just revel in their vain thoughts can find their own way to God.
It depends on how such knowledge is used – to glorify and thank the amazing God of creation.
To follow other human religions in the hope that those who formed them knew God is folly.Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Nick this is the above post you gave to Cato. Here you are obviously directing thoughts to him. If I have mistaken you, forgive me. But I've heard you do this to him before. Anyway, it doesn't really matter.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
