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Hi GB,
God looks after His Word and enables His sons to decipher it and to find the meddling work of men.Hi GB,
Are you losing faith in scripture?
You should not undermine your own foundations.
There are occasional additions but God wants us to learn to be wise.
Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.Nick……. Where do you get i am losing faith in scripture at. It says that the (summation) of Gods word is truth. Not picking out a little here and there.
Isa 28:13..> but the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little; that they might go, and shall fall backward and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Nick…here is a good example of what i see done here all the time and i believe prevents any true conclusions of subjects, people infer things mean what scripture does not actually say. For instance lets take John 1:3 >all things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. That is talking about God himself, if you take into consideration the previous scriptures, but you people just insert Jesus there when it's NOT THERE>not to mention all the other scriptures that show God (ALONE) created everything. So can you say you really follow scriptures as written (NO YOU DON'T) you and others add or change the text to suit your trinitarian or preexistences Ideologies, and completely ignore or change scriptures that show you wrong. I another thing i have noticed when scriptures are given the go contrary to what is being talked about it's completely ignored and never discussed.
Like for instance where Jesus said the words weren't His, he was speaking and it is referenced in two or three other places in the bible, why aren't these discussed. Why is there not a discussion on in what way they weren't His words or when He said He could do nothing of Himself, why does no one want to takes these words seriously and discuss them, I'll give you the answer, because of the mind set of people who are indoctrinated in the preexistence and trinitarian doctrines.
And while some Here think they are not trinitarians and boast they don't believe Jesus is God almighty they none the less hold on to a part of there doctrine and that's of preexistences why, because they still believe Jesus is a divine deity.
But to answer your statement of have I lost (Faith) in scripture, NO i haven't in its (original) form, do i believe the text we have now has been altered in places you bet i do. Do i believe the text has be adulterated in places you bet i do, why because of the mindset of those who wrote the translations, it's obvious or why would we have hundreds of different translation if the text has not be tampered with.
peace to you and yours………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,04:41)
Nick…here is a good example of what i see done here all the time and i believe prevents any true conclusions of subjects, people infer things mean what scripture does not actually say. For instance lets take John 1:3 >all things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made. That is talking about God himself,GB
Where in John 1:3 does it say “Father” in the verse?
Who is now inserting words?
In fact John 1:1 doesn't say the “Word” was the “Father” does it?
So who is inserting words into the text?
If the Father is the one spoken of in John 1:3 then John would have said so.
Instead John tells us the “Word was made flesh”. But you would have us to believe the Father was made flesh!
You accuse others of changing the meaning and inserting words, however it is clear who is doing this.
Your doctrine denys that Jesus came in the flesh and and in my opinion is of the Spirit of antcrhrist!
Nick……You see thats the problem no matter How clear something is you just go with your own opinions, where is the word Jesus in the text, guess what IT”S NOT THERE>So why try to put it there, don't you think John new how to spell Jesus and if that what He was implying He would Have Just said it.
And You say” should we (Just) take (YOUR) word for it”, (NO)< take the TEXTS word for it, and quite trying to change it to meat (YOUR) preconceived belief system.
I think your the one who has lost (FAITH) in the scriptures our you wouldn't keep trying to change what it actually says.
IMO…….gene
WJ…… what i said to Nick goes Ditto for you, who do you think Jesus was talking about when He said (THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD) HIMSELF OR GOD THE FATHER< John said GOD not Jesus , He know exactly who God was and who Jesus was and I don't see Jesus used there do you?, Of course you do, because you don't know the difference do you?.
And anyone in there right mind Knows a (WORD) can't be flesh. It can only come to be (IN) flesh. The word Became means came to in , check it out. The flesh prophets nothing as Jesus said, it's the spirit that was in the Flesh of Jesus that counted and Jesus was anointed with that Spirit and thats how it came to be in Him, Its the same with all who have God's Spirit in them also. You can't understand, that Jesus was a flesh and blood Man in whom there were two Will's one was His and one was the Fathers and they were not the same Will's .
Jesus put HIS WILL TO DEATH and followed God's will even to death on the cross. “for it is written in the volumes of the books I came to do(THY WILL) “O” GOD> He was not the same being as God the Father, as you assume.
John was referencing the beginning of all things And It was God who said or spoke or uttered intelligent words and these words produced life as we know it, Jesus said the (words) i speak unto you (are life) and went on to say the word's weren't His, so with all of us knowing that, How do you fit Jesus into the text. Show us your twisting magic.
IMO……..gene
To all……the topic of this thread is, How is Jesus (not) God> That depends on the word GOD. If we conceder what the word Means then we can see the truth.
According to Jeff Benner in his book the mechanical translation of Genesis, He shows how a Hebrew man or woman would have understood the term God, at the time the Exodus.
He broke the word down to its basic meaning. The word is a plural word and means POWERS pronounced as Elohiym. With this basic understanding we can see many things about the word.
1…..Powers, does not imply Deity at all.
2…..when we put all the scriptures using the word we find it can apply to men of various powers, like Moses, the leaders of Israel, the Judges and officials of Israelites, The Lord gives man that title in many scriptures, saying in one place no you not you are Gods, when He was upbraiding the leaders of Israel over their lack of carrying out their duties properly. These leaders were given (POWER), and authority over Gods people.3…. anyone with a Position of Power can be considered a God or a person of power. However that does not imply Deity.
4…. we can apply the word God to Jesus and not imply Deity also.
5…. But if we say the almighty God obviously that would be God the Father who is the Only (TRUE) God, why because all other gods are lesser God's then He. And are subordinate to Him, and that includes Jesus also.
6…..So we must conclude Jesus could be called God, and no Deity needs to be implied by using that word connected to Him.
7….. another interesting thing is that all power comes from one source, even the good and bad leaders receive there power from God, why because God creates and controls all thing in heaven and earth. Installing both good leaders and bad leaders as scripture says. Some times bad for the chastisement of a nation.
8……In conclusion if we take all the scriptures into consideration the word God is by no means the stamp of a Deity.
Also if you care to check out Sir Issac Newton's papers on the subject you will find He agree with this. And he agrees it doesn't imply Deity.
imo…………..gene
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Doesn't look like he is a lesser God, otherwise they are not one. How are they one? By the Spirit. God is a Spirit. John 4:24. John 1:1 In the beginnig was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. This is talking about Jesus.
If you don't believe Jesus is God then you don't honor the Father! John 5:23 says “that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Now if you don't honor Jesus as God, you don't honor the Father as God. You accuse the trinitarians of believing in more than one god, but countless times you talk about Jesus being a lesser god! How many is that, 2 at least! Now I am not totally convinced of the trinitarian side, but they at least believe Jesus is God! By the way, if it didn't matter the way the “G” or “g” in the scriptures was written, then why in the New World Translation did they go through all that trouble to change John 1:1 to ” and the word was a god” hence little g!. I thought it didn't matter! That makes me wonder who is really is changing the scriptures!
gsilva……….> if you care to look at the center margin of your bible you will find 1John 1:7-8 is not in the bible and was added by a trinitarian translator. Then you using that and jumping to John 1:1 and other texts to try to support you belief system is pure non sense.
It has been explained to you before (THERE ARE NO UPPER CASE OR LOWER CASE) words in the Greek language. And the reason they went through all that trouble is because trinitarian translators wanted it to come out that way.
Honoring someone is not the same as saying they are a Deity , honor means to respect and I do respect Jesus (TO THE GLORY OF GOD The Father) , not to the glory of Him being a Deity as trinitarians do.
Trinitarians believe in Jesus as a Deity and not Just a god, they even say HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD, treating her as a Diety also. pure nonsense.
Do you Know what the word (HOMONUSIOUS) means, according to them Jesus is of the same essence AS God the Father , He eternally existed and created all things, they equate him as very God with no less existence and origin as the Father Himself.
Homonusious is a word given to Christianity by the pagan Emperor Constantine at the council of Nicia in 325 AD. All the trinitarian Ideologies have there roots in pure paganism of the Greeks .
There is a excellent book that fully explains what were talking about, Its entitled, (When Jesus Became GOD ) written by Richard E. Rubenstein, it's only about $14.00 . He takes you through step by step of the History involved.
gsilva……the trinity is purely a false teaching, Satan wants people to believe Jesus is not Just like US, he wants us to separate Jesus identity from ourselves.
It's not a matter of us worshiping Jesus as a Deity, it's a matter of Us coming to the (FULL MEASURE OF CHRIST) being (EXACTLY) like Him in every way.You will never be able to do that if in your mind you think he is different then you. Do you see yourself as a Deity (NO), then don'
t see Jesus as One either, But see GOD the Father who took a ordinary Human Being and Perfected Him and raised Him from the grave.IMO………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21) WJ…… what i said to Nick goes Ditto for you, who do you think Jesus was talking about when He said (THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD) HIMSELF OR GOD THE FATHER Hi GB
First of all GB, the Lord didn’t say “(THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD)”, those are your words.
Here is what Jesus said…
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (John 17:3)
Isn’t it quite amazing that Yeshua attaches his name right next to the Father as a prerequisite to having eternal life by knowing him? Do you know any “mere man” that can make that claim?
Compare that scripture with this…
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (1 John 5:20)
But you get all excited and say John 17:3 is proof that Jesus is not God. However Jesus makes another statement before this one that again no “mere man” can make…
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father (God), but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father (God) also: and from henceforth ye know him (God), and have seen him (God). Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father (God), and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me (God), Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father (God); and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father (God)? (John 14:6-9)
Read it with an open mind GB without the preconceived Idea that Jesus is just an empty shell that the Father works through.
Remember also that John the beloved disciple penned these words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, which confirms his writings elsewhere showing the Divinity of Christ. John 1:1, John 20:20, 1 John 1:1-3. 1 John 5:20, Revelation 1:8.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21)
< John said GOD not Jesus , He know exactly who God was and who Jesus was and I don't see Jesus used there do you?, Of course you do, because you don't know the difference do you?.Seems you don’t know the difference GB. You make Jesus into just a mere man, just a regular son of God like us.
GB are you a bond slave of Yeshua? Paul was. Think about what it means. If Jesus is just a man like us all, then we would be violating the first commandment by giving such devotion to a mere man.
I follow Jesus who is my Lord and my God, for he is one with the Father and the Spirit. Remember he said, “No man can come to God but by me”. He who has the Son has God!
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21)
And anyone in there right mind Knows a (WORD) can't be flesh. It can only come to be (IN) flesh. The word Became means came to in , check it out.I agree, the Word that was God (not the Father) came in the flesh? Wouldn’t you agree?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21)
The flesh prophets nothing as Jesus said, it's the spirit that was in the Flesh of Jesus that counted and Jesus was anointed with that Spirit and thats how it came to be in Him,Ok, so now you jump to his baptism from his birth. They are not the same events. The “Word that was God (not the Father) came in the flesh at his natural birth and later he was water baptized and the Spirit “sat” upon him like a dove with a voice from heaven confirming who he was.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21)
Its the same with all who have God's Spirit in them also. You can't understand, that Jesus was a flesh and blood Man in whom there were two Will's one was His and one was the Fathers and they were not the same Will's .No I do understand that he was a flesh blood man. But what does his flesh body as a man have to do with his Spirit (the Word) that was with the Father and was/is God?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21)
Jesus put HIS WILL TO DEATH and followed God's will even to death on the cross. “for it is written in the volumes of the books I came to do(THY WILL) “O” GOD> He was not the same being as God the Father, as you assume.But I thought you said Jesus didn’t have a free will? But you say he, “put his will to death”.
So what is your definition of being? Can you say emphatically that you understand everything there is to know about the nature of an infinite God? Does his being have to be like ours, or are you making God into your image?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 21 2008,08:21)
John was referencing the beginning of all things And It was God who said or spoke or uttered intelligent words and these words produced life as we know it, Jesus said the (words) i speak unto you (are life) and went on to say the word's weren't His, so with all of us knowing that, How do you fit Jesus into the text. Show us your twisting magic.IMO……..gene
No twisting magic.
You see this is the problem, you take one scripture and build your doctrine around it, and it is especially a problem if you have a distorted view of that scripture.
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. (John 14:10 NASB)
Do you see anywhere in this scripture that the words Yeshua spoke were not his? Jesus simply didn’t speak on his own, just as the Father never speaks without the Son. Your logic makes no sense especially in light of the few verses before this where he had just told Philip that if he seen Him he has seen his Father and that if he had known Him he would have known his Father.
By this one scripture you make Yeshua out to be an empty shell that did or said nothing that was his own. Have you read these scriptures that contradict your logic that Jesus words were not his?
Verily, verily, I say unto
you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
(John 8:31, 32)I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. (John 8:37)
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. (John 8:43)
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. (Rev 3:8)
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Matt 24:35)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. (Mark 8:38)
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:47)
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23)
This is only a few GB that show Jesus taking claim to the Words of God as being his own. Unless you would say that the words in those scriptures are not Gods.
In fact Jesus takes claim to the scriptures…
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (Jn 5:39)
Do you know of a mere man that spoke, or speaks like that?
Blessings!
Hi WJ,
Greetings from Adam. Whatever you told about Jesus is not correct. You are not believing Jesus what he has told about the only True God. You can not make Jesus as God by quoting some wrong translations like KJV. Yes Jesus is the Way not the destination. Jesus is the path which God the Father designed for us to reach the unapproachable God. Why you are so much involved in confusing many by just quoting some jumble of verses? If you want to preach another Jesus other than preached by paul, Peter and other Apostles then then it is blunder. How many times we are debating about the nature and origins of Jesus? By doing this we are not honouring our Father God. Tell me franckly how many churches are honouring our Father God in their worship? By highlighting the man and the mediator appointed by God to be the savior of this world you can not nullify the the God the Savior of this universe. Jesus has been appointed by God His father to do His will. You can not take away the role of Father by just misquoting some verses.
Peace to you.
AdamQuote (gsilva72 @ May 21 2008,01:19) 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. Doesn't look like he is a lesser God, otherwise they are not one. How are they one? By the Spirit. God is a Spirit. John 4:24. John 1:1 In the beginnig was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. This is talking about Jesus.
If you don't believe Jesus is God then you don't honor the Father! John 5:23 says “that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Now if you don't honor Jesus as God, you don't honor the Father as God. You accuse the trinitarians of believing in more than one god, but countless times you talk about Jesus being a lesser god! How many is that, 2 at least! Now I am not totally convinced of the trinitarian side, but they at least believe Jesus is God! By the way, if it didn't matter the way the “G” or “g” in the scriptures was written, then why in the New World Translation did they go through all that trouble to change John 1:1 to ” and the word was a god” hence little g!. I thought it didn't matter! That makes me wonder who is really is changing the scriptures!
Hi Gsilva,
1 John 5:7 as you have written was not found in the earlier manuscripts and not part of the original Greek and shouldn't be considered part of the Bible. Check out the NASB:1 John 5:6-8
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
NASUAlso, the original Greek was all capital letters, no punctuation, and no spaces. The translators put them in.
I have some of the same beliefs as you. I think Jesus is God but I agree with the Bible which calls Him the only Begotten God.
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASUHe is not a “lesser” begotten God, He is the ONLY Begotten God. Whenever scripture refers to Jesus as “God”, if you understand it as “Begotten God” it all flows. Humans begat humans, God begat God. Remember, the Father God always existed and the Begotten God was born of Him before the foundation of the world. (He had to be born before the foundation of the world because his Father used Him to create the world.) This would make them unequal and not co-eternal but it certainly would not make Jesus a “lesser” Begotten God. He is the Most High Begotten God, the First and Last Begotten God the Alpha and Omega Begotten God because He is the ONLY Begotten God.
The Father is the Most High Always Existing God, the ONLY Most High Always Existing God and there is no “lesser” Most High Always Existing God just as there is no “lesser” Begotten God.
Satan is considered god of this world but only for a time. He was CREATED and not to be followed or worshiped. Jesus was BORN, not created. Jesus was the ony one born of God not as in “born again”, which naturally makes Him the Only Begotten Son as well as the Only Begotten God.
John 3:16-17
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
NASUJesus is to be followed and worshiped because He is in unison with His Father and our “head”, for starters.
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
NASUThanks for your time!
Have a great day!!Hi Lightenup
Quote “The only Begotten God” Show me where in the scripture that it says, he is the only begotten God. It does say, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
It says only begotten son. Doen't get me wrong, I still believe that Jesus is God, and yes, we do share some of the same beliefs. I do believe also the Jesus was fully man.
Here is the truth about 1 John 5:7- “1John 5:7 belongs in the King James Bible and was preserved by faithful Christians. But the passage was removed from many Greek manuscripts, because of the problems it seemed to cause”
Here is a little history:
The growing religion that became known as Roman Catholic, after many debates eventually agreed on the doctrine of the Trinity. So they had no reason to remove 1 John 5:7 from their Bibles, since it supported what they taught.
But the Greek Eastern Orthodox religion was combating a heresy called “Sabellianism,” and would have found it easier to combat the heresy by simply removing the troubling passage from their Bibles. (2001 by David W. Daniels)
Hope this helps.
gollamidi………..Good post…….If you go to any trinitarian church you would be lucky to even Hear the Man of the Farther mentioned, they have replaced Him with Jesus and as you said Jesus is the (WAY) to the Object, which is God the Father, How simple , but trinitarians have made the object Jesus, Jesus said I am the (DOOR) the door is not the object it is the access point to the object which is the Father. They preach Jesus but don't listen to His words or they wouldn't have all these false teaching they have.
They say Jesus is the (WORD) but Jesus said the Words weren't HIS, but do they care that Jesus Himself said that (NO) they Just act as if He never said it, they preach Jesus but deny His words. Prue Heresy, and deception.
It amazes me How clearly you see that, and people on this site and others don't get it. It shows the power of the Spirit of God in your life.
Adam…..May the Lord continue to bless you and keep you, makes his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you, lift up His countenance on you and give you peace……………..gene
Quote (gsilva72 @ May 22 2008,11:03) Hi Lightenup Quote “The only Begotten God” Show me where in the scripture that it says, he is the only begotten God. It does say, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
It says only begotten son. Doen't get me wrong, I still believe that Jesus is God, and yes, we do share some of the same beliefs. I do believe also the Jesus was fully man.
Here is the truth about 1 John 5:7- “1John 5:7 belongs in the King James Bible and was preserved by faithful Christians. But the passage was removed from many Greek manuscripts, because of the problems it seemed to cause”
Here is a little history:
The growing religion that became known as Roman Catholic, after many debates eventually agreed on the doctrine of the Trinity. So they had no reason to remove 1 John 5:7 from their Bibles, since it supported what they taught.
But the Greek Eastern Orthodox religion was combating a heresy called “Sabellianism,” and would have found it easier to combat the heresy by simply removing the troubling passage from their Bibles. (2001 by David W. Daniels)
Hope this helps.
Hi gsilva,I showed you in my last post to you where is says that Jesus is the only begotten God but here it is again:
John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
Here it is in the Greek:
qeon oudeiv ewraken (5758) pwpote; monogenhv qeov o wn (5752) eiv ton kolpon tou patrov ekeinov echghsato.These are the Greek words that mean “only begotten God”:
monogenhv qeov
As far as the Johannine Comma, I am not a scholar and won't be debating it. There are two sides of the argument and the lastest Bibles are translated without it and these are trinitarian biased translators apparently, eventho, I think that their intent was to sincerely try to translate without any bias. If THEY omitted it then that tells me something-there was good reason for omitting it.
LU
Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47) Hi WJ,
Greetings from Adam. Whatever you told about Jesus is not correct.
Ok, and whatever you say in contrast to what I have been told is incorrect.I have been studying scriptures and been serving Yeshua for 34 years and I know in whom I have believed!
So now that we see we do not agree, let’s move on.
Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47)
You are not believing Jesus what he has told about the only True God. You can not make Jesus as God by quoting some wrong translations like KJV.
Ok, show me where I have misquoted the scriptures by using the KJV.Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47)
Yes Jesus is the Way not the destination. Jesus is the path which God the Father designed for us to reach the unapproachable God.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Rev 22:13]Jesus is not only the Way, but he is the Truth and the Life! He is the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Paul says that all things were made by him and for him. (Col 1:16) He is the Author and the finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2) Paul also says Yeshua is our prize…
Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, Phil 3:8
The central focus of the Gospel is Yeshua! Your logic implies that once we reach our destination we will no longer need the Way! Will there ever be a time throughout Eternity that we will not need Yeshua? He will be our Husband as well as our God! The Father, Son and Holy Spirit will be all in all.
Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47)
Why you are so much involved in confusing many by just quoting some jumble of verses? If you want to preach another Jesus other than preached by paul, Peter and other Apostles then then it is blunder.
I could ask you and GB the same thing! However I do notice a big difference in my post and yours. You and GB spit out hundreds of words of apologetics with very little quotes from the scriptures or broken fragments of the scriptures.As far as preaching another Jesus, you are right. My Jesus is the Lord from heaven who is like his Father in every way as God. My Jesus is the “Only begotten God”, the “Monogenes”, unique Son of God. You and GB apparantly do not understand what “Monogenes” means.
Your Jesus is a mere man like the rest of us sinners who have been saved by grace. To you and GB he is just another son of God like the rest of us. Your image of Jesus is too small for him to be the “Image of the invisible God”.
Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47)
How many times we are debating about the nature and origins of Jesus? By doing this we are not honouring our Father God.
If you think this way then why are you here?Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47)
Tell me franckly how many churches are honouring our Father God in their worship? By highlighting the man and the mediator appointed by God to be the savior of this world you can not nullify the the God the Savior of this universe.
Sorry to tell you my friend but the Gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ is about Yeshua. You can not place too much honour on the Son. The Father even commands the Angels to worship him.And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Heb 1:6
Do you know any other man like this?
Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Honour, Greek, “timao”, which means;
1) to estimate, fix the value
a) for the value of something belonging to one's self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerateRevere; to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor
Venerate;
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotionSynonyms: reverence, worship and adore.
This means the same Value, devotion, and reverence is to be ascribed to Yeshua as to the Father.
To the degree you honor Yeshua, it’s to that degree you honor the Father.
To me the word honor is a more powerful word than worship because it includes worship.
God is a jealous God! He would not have man place this kind of honour on any other being.
Yet we see Yeshua getting this kind of honour, and that’s because Yeshua is our Lord and God.
I brought up another thread on worship and posted a previous post I made to GB Here.
Quote (gollamudi @ May 22 2008,22:47)
Jesus has been appointed by God His father to do His will. You can not take away the role of Father by just misquoting some verses.
Peace to you.
Adam
Maybe you can enlighten me on what verses I misquoted!Blessings!
WJ….. who's not fixing a value on the the Son, I as a man Just like Him can see a far greater value in His life then you < I know If a man Just like Me was able with the Help of God the Father to become perfect and never sin and learn obedience by the things He suffered, SO CAN I WITH GOD THE FATHER'S HELP, I can grow unto the (full) Measure of Christ. But you can't because you don't believe He was exactly like you, you believe He was almighty God Himself, so you could (NEVER) reach the (FULL)measure could you.
Be honest do you really Honor Jesus, if you do then why do you take away His Humanity. And degrade Him with your foolish Teachings that He was a God and Deity and there fore never really had anything to over come. Doesn't it say God can not be tempted by sin, but it says Jesus was tempted in all manor as (we are). So while it says God can't be tempted it says Jesus was tempted, so how do you trinitarians get around that. So Us some twisting magic.
IMO……………gene
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