How is Jesus not God?

Participant

Hi Nh,

If the name of the eternal Spirit is not Jesus, then why does Jesus mean ” Yahweh is salvation?” Also, John 1:1 says that the word (This expression, idea, plan ) was God. The only way he could be God, is by that Spirit being that very name, Jesus. It goes on to say latter in John that “he was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world did not know him. Then it goes on to say that ” he came unto his own, and his own did not receive him.

July 28, 2008 at 7:12 pm#99233

Participant

Hi gs,
What does ELIJAH mean.
Does that say he is ” Lord God “?

The WORD was not the God he was with.
He was a vessel for God and God visited His people in him.

We too are such vessels and can be used in a similar way for godly purposes.

2Tim2
20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

July 28, 2008 at 10:18 pm#99242

Participant

Hi Nh,

Elijah means ” My God is Yahweh” No, it doesn't mean Elijah was Yaweh. Do you believe that Jesus is just God's representative, who had the fullness of deity in him bodily? Is that what God means, when Jesus is called God? I'm not trying to generate foolish or vain questions in order to cause strife. I'm trying to understand what you believe.:)

July 28, 2008 at 10:31 pm#99243

Participant

Hi gs,
ELI..YAH?
YAH..SHUA also speaks of the nature of the God of Jesus and us.

July 28, 2008 at 10:44 pm#99244

Participant

Hi gs,
No greater servant son of God than Jesus.
God was in him reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5.19]

Of course he was not also the God that was in him.

July 28, 2008 at 11:57 pm#99249

Participant

Hi Nh,

So explain John 1:1 the way you understand it.

July 29, 2008 at 1:00 am#99251

Irene

Participant

Let me come in here and explain something to you. First I have not said “Welcome to you”, gsilva72.
Then when you say God to Jesus, we have to understand that God is a tittle. Just like the God of silver and God of Gold, and Satan is the God of this earth. The way I understand it, is that God is like a Family of God, which we by the way also belong, if we have been Baptized and received the Holy Spirit. Now we are born again. The Father is above all. He is the Almighty God, while Jesus is the Son of God, and so are we the Children of God. There is a Song that says to become like a Child to enter the Kingdom of God.
That is how I explain John 1:1
Peace and Love Irene

August 2, 2008 at 1:10 pm#99913

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2008,10:44)

Hi gs,
No greater servant son of God than Jesus.
God was in him reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5.19]

Of course he was not also the God that was in him.

Amen to that post brother Nick. Jesus is the vessel for that one God who pleased to live bodily in Jesus. God appeared to Israelites and many prophets of O.T in theophanies like angels now He is appearing in Jesus bodily permanently. But does this make Jesus as that one God?

August 2, 2008 at 5:30 pm#99927

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Cato @ May 08 2008,02:51)

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 07 2008,11:45)

How is Jesus not God? Jesus is not a demi god, but he is God. Hebrews 1:8, Matthew 1:23, John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16 all declare that Jesus is God. Also notice that the G in God with these scriptures is not a little g.

In Hindu philosophy, an avatar most commonly refers to the incarnation (bodily manifestation) of a divine being, or the Supreme Being (God) onto planet Earth. The Sanskrit word avatāra- literally means “descent” (avatarati) and usually implies a deliberate descent into lower realms of existence for special purposes. This very similar to the common concept of Jesus, you add to it by saying Jesus is not merely a devine being, no demigod, but God himself.

Problems with this concept:
If God is the limitless, great unmanifest, all powerful creator of the universe, how does he limit himself and still be God?

Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? “

How can God forsake himself?

Mark 6:4 “But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.'

A prophet to himself?

Mark 10:18 “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”

Why does he say this if he is God himself?

Mark 13:32 “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

This states that the Son does not have knowledge that the father has. This shows lack of omniscience, and so proves inferiority to the Father. Inferiority shows inequality.

Mark 14:36 “And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.”

Jesus subordinates his will and desire.

Luke 3:38 “Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”

Adam is given the title son of God yet none relate him as divine.

Cato…..AS Jodi would say YOU NAILED IT.

I love to see the truth expounded. Peace brother……….gene

August 4, 2008 at 4:50 am#100040

Participant

Where does it say anywhere in scripture?

That you have to understand the “GODHEAD” fully before you can be saved?

Who here could understand GOD?

Do you think you have him all figured out?

I think not.

When Jesus comes back do you think he is going to ask you if you have a complete understanding of the “GODHEAD”?

Or…

Have you kept my commandments?

And..

Have you made me known to others?

I have this belief that no man can fully understand GOD, the GODHEAD, or the Mind of GOD.

Quote

Romans 11
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

I don't think that anyone on this earth understands the fullness of GOD..or his plan.

But we do know that one thing is for sure…that Jesus did confirm on several occasions.

That is is the SON of GOD.

I'm welling to accept what ever truth that GOD gives me.

But at this point the Bible Teaches me that Jesus is the name that I must believe in that to get to GOD that I have to go through Jesus.

Jesus is the way the truth and the light that key to the kingdom of heaven…the foundation on which GOD has chosen to build the Church.

It seems to me that I don't have a good understanding of some of the things the “Oneness” “Apostolic” people do.

But I know that with out accepting Jesus I can not have the father.

I can't go to the father but through Jesus, and none goes to Jesus unless the father calls them.

If you try to climb up some other way…you can not get in to heaven.

There is only one way.

It seems to me that if you say that Jesus is or was GOD himself…that you are cutting out Jesus and the key to the kingdom of GOD.

GOD spelled it out a certain way in the bible for us to get to him.

Seems like to me if you don't accept that Jesus was the Son…that you do not accept the Father.

You have to accept that Jesus was the Son of the Living GOD According to the Bible.

Peter even said it ….and Jesus confirmed it was so.

If you say that Jesus is GOD and not the Son then you have not accepted that Jesus is the Son of GOD and thus you are condemed already.

But as I said…The Apostolics may have some truth there that I do not yet understand. I do not know. I know that, I do not want Jesus to be ashamed of me…It says that if we are ashamed of him that he would be ashamed of us and thus not confess us to the father.

Quote

Mark 8:38
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

I don't really want to specualte here. I would rather do what the Bible says to do.

Yeah Jesus made some statements about him and the father being one.
But he also said his father was greater them him.
Seems to me if he is in fact not the Almighty GOD him self…that GOD has given all power to him. And we should thus do as we are told.

Is there any where in the Bible where it says Jesus is GOD, or that none is above him?
That is is Alpha and Omega, the Begining and the End?
That he is the Almighty GOD the Father?

Or that GOD is the Son, I don't know I really still do not understand if that is indeed the case.

Seems like GOD and Jesus would have made if fairly clear if they were one in the same.

It says that Jesus has all power in heaven and in earth and that he will give all things back over to the father.

There is just too many “Ifs” there.

I'll trust in the Lord Jesus Christ the son of the Living GOD. For my salvation.

You can trust in what ever you want. But I would advise doing the same thing.

August 4, 2008 at 9:06 am#100053

Participant

Oh! That's wonderful post my brother Samuel.
You said it in a very very simple terms stating who is Jesus and what is his relationship with the One and only God.
Kudos to you
Adam

August 5, 2008 at 12:47 am#100112

Participant

All glory and praise be to GOD.

I merely just stated whats in the Bible.

GOD already has it all spelled out.

August 6, 2008 at 5:52 pm#100467

Participant

Hi Samuel,

Quote “If you say that Jesus is GOD and not the Son then you have not accepted that Jesus is the Son of GOD and thus you are condemed already.”

Why are you putting words in my mouth. I never said that Jesus wasn't the Son of God. I can tell you and whoever else what I believe! If you and whoever else don't believe these things, then you need to take that up with your maker! First, I believe that all the Fullness of the Godhead was in him bodily! If you don't believe this, then you have a problem with the Bible, not my words! Second, I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, not God the Son! If you don't believe this, then your problem is with God,not me! Third, if you don't believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ , which by the way is a commandment, Your problem is with God, not me! Besides, there is no other name under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved! Fourth, I believe that the Father was in the Son! If you don't believe this, then take it up with God! Fifth, If you don't believe that Jesus is the Christ, born of God, then I pray God will show you!
sixth, whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus…. this I will do out of obedience to his word! I give praise to the name of Jesus. There is no other name you can praise to glorify God. If you don't believe this, then search the scriptures.

Samuel, I also never said that I understood all the fullness of the Godhead! I was just sharing thoughts and scriptures! I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with a Oneness Church or Apostolic Church, because yes, some people think they know it all. They look down on you because they think they have it all together. We'll let me share something with you Brother, none of us has it all together, otherwise we wouldn't need Christ. I still need Christ just as much today as before I received him. He didn't come to save those who are whole, because they are not in need of a physician. And by the way, I would have bought you that meal. You said you attended a service and that after service, you didn't have enough to pay for a meal. By God, I would have paid for it for you. I know in your heart you are saying” where is the love of God in that! If you think i'm just saying that, I'm not. If you ever come to First United Pentecostal Church of San Antonio, Ask for Brother George Silva, and i'll take you out! It may be a dollar menu at Taco Bell , (j/k) but nevertheless, I'll pay for you!

Out of love in the Name of our Lord Jesus. Acts 4:12

August 7, 2008 at 5:26 am#100560

Participant

So Gsilva you are brother George Silva, wonderful name it is.

August 7, 2008 at 10:15 pm#100631

Participant

I'm not trying to put words in you mouth by no means.

I was just going off some of the things a previous poster said.

I understand that Being baptized in the name of Jesus is the right way now. Praying or asking for things in prayer in the name of Jesus is the right way.

And, I believe on the name of Jesus Christ (as uttered in the English language).

I believe that Jesus was born of GOD, and is the Son of the living GOD.

Now…

I was raised in a Trinity Belief in a “Church of GOD” type church.
Actually the first church that I can remember going to was a Pentecostal church…just not oneness.

Then, we went to another pentecostal church that was more strict…like most of the Apostolic's are 3/4 length sleeves and the whole bid. But, they still believed in the Trinity.

Thats not to say that I believe in the Trinity. At least not in the sense that they say it. Whats actually funny is they believe too that all there are the same or at the same level. GOD is the GOD almighty, Jesus is the Son Which is an separate person from GOD but equal to GOD, and the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit, that is separate from GOD…but is also equal to GOD. Which they call the GODHEAD.

Apostolics get completely irate about this. They say there there is in no way form or fashion 3 GODS. Honestly, I really don't thin k the belief is trying to claim 3 GODS. I think they are trying to claim the One True GOD…and his Son with in which all power in heaven is given to (at the current moment). And, the Holy Spirit is what confuses me really. Because they say that it is a separate being…a separate spirit…well GOD exists in spirit as well. GOD is a Spirit it's in the Bible…

Quote

John 4:24
God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

I'm inclined to believe that the Holy Spirit and GOD are the same…although I do not know for certain…Because I do not understand ever thing about GOD.

There are a lot of references in the Bible that GOD and Jesus are one…and / or that they agree as one.

There are also a lot of references in the Bible where they are presented as two separate beings, people, or spirits (which ever description that you prefer to use).

There is also an instance in the Bible that suggests that the Father which is GOD knows something that the Son which is Jesus, don't know.
The time or the hour

I'm somewhat rusty on more scriptures but I remember reading them at some point or another…and I could waste a lot of time trying to find them on some online Bibles.

Weather it be that Jesus and GOD and the Holy Ghost are the same being spirit or person…I honestly I'm not super sure. Because I do not understand everything about GOD.

GOD is indeed capable of anything.
But, just because he is…does that mean we could fashion any idea about him that we wish and then present it as the truth?

Just because GOD is capable of this does not mean that that is the way it is. ( it don't mean that it is not either)

All I'm saying is there is no possible way that you can sit here and explain the whole fullness of GOD.
First of, no one has even seen GOD at anytime.
Little long had a very long person to person interview with him.
We have had a lot of prayer sessions, and done a lot of studying in the Bible…

But in truth we most likely know very little about GOD.

He has been in existence for ever! One book is most likely not going to entail every single thing about GOD.

Again, it is possible for GOD to do just this…however but just because he can, does that mean that he did?

We already know that everything is not in the Bible…there are a lot of Mystery's that he has placed in there that we do not have answers too.

In truth the book that he gave us is what we “Need” to receive our salvation….His plan for us. Just look at what we are doing with just this little bit of information.

Can you imagine what we would do with all the information that GOD could supply us with if he choose to?

The one thing that I am sold on now that I wasn't before is the baptizing in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Simply because there is not one single record in the Bible where any one was every baptized using the words “Unto the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost”.

I'm not sure if you have to be baptized to go to heaven or not…Although I do believe that you should if you “Sale-Out” for a life serving GOD. But weather or not you “Have to” or not i'm not sure.

I mean what if you went to the church…realized you were living in sin…they had an alter call…and you went to the alter and “Prayed Through” confessed your sins, and gave you life to GOD, and believed on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ…
Then you go home and die of a heart attack…a car wreck on the way home…get mugged and knifed to death, get shot by a gangster…whatever you get the point.
Well…the problem with this is that most churches that I know that believe in the baptism unto the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will not baptize you that same night/day. They tell you that they do not want to “Bury a living man” that you must “Bring meat for repentance”.

Well a guy once told me that GOD would not let a person die until they have been baptized. Well, ok…Yes GOD could do that does that mean he will? What if that man/ woman already had a set time to die? What if that was their time? What if their job was to walk down the isle and do this so that someone else could see them and join them? What if? Do we know GODS plans…Do we know the mind of the Lord?

Quote

Romans 11:34
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Just because GOD can do something does not mean that he will, or that he won't for that manner. We do not know the mind of GOD, or what his plans are for everyone.

While this was a very good argument the fact still remains What if?

There is a statement that has been tossed around by some to which I believe they actually have not seriousness to the utterance of it…

“What would Jesus Do?

I sadly feel that the people that use this statement use it in a joking blasphemous manner.

However, in all seriousness I use it now in a sincere manner.

What would Jesus Do?

We know that those “Sinner” on the cross beside him that day that he was crucified on the cross next to him had asked him to have remember him when he came into his kingdom…heres the story…

Quote

Luke 23
39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

As we see here that Jesus told this person that he would be with him in paradise.
He did not get baptized…or did he?

Some hav
e argued with me saying that the “New Law had not been established yet” Well…true not the baptism unto the name of Jesus had been established yet…or had it? How do we know that they did not die after Jesus did?
Nonetheless, Baptism was certainly in effect at that time. Just not unto the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because Jesus and many others were baptized by John.

Ok, so there is that scripture in acts…

Quote

Acts 19

1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Well, this begs a couple questions.
One, if they had died before being baptized unto the name of the Lord Jesus would they have went to Hell?
Two, Or…does this mean that you have to be baptized unto the name of the Lord Jesus in order to receive the Holy Ghost?

We have already discussed the possibility of Q1, (well I have so far its a one sided conversation)
For Q2, Were all the people on the day of Pentecost Baptized unto the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? (Whoops I answered my own Question with a Question)

Furthermore, those other churches that I said that I went too…that were not Apostolic… There were people that went to those churches that had the gift of the Holy Ghost. I know that they were not baptized unto the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That were baptized unto the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Quote

Acts 2
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This as you know could be considered the single scripture the Apostolic Faith is Built on.

But this scripture actually came right before it…

Quote

Acts 2
21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Before the Question “What must we do to be saved?” was even asked, the answer had already been given.

Of course, every devout believer should be baptized…I agree completely. And, I also believe that you should be Baptized unto the name of the Lord Jesus Christ…if your gonna do it you should do it right.

But Apostolics will swear up and down that you will go to Hell if you are not baptized unto the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and have received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Anyways, I did not mean to get off on all of that. But A lot of the Apostolics that I've met are super hard core.

A lot of people now days in the belief act a lot like Pharisees.

Which means Jesus is going to have a lot more rebuking to do when he gets back, just as he did the first time he was here…actually it will probably be worse.

August 8, 2008 at 12:06 am#100642

Participant

Quote (gsilva72 @ July 27 2008,03:56)

Hi Gm and Nh

I agree, the man Christ Jesus is not the Father. John 4:24 declares that “God is a Spirit” The name of that eternal Spirit is Jesus. That name wasn't revealed until the New testament through his Son. Now we have to believe in one Lord. Ephesians 4:6 says that there is one Lord. 2 Corinthians says ” Now the Lord is that Spirit….” If God is a Spirit and there is only one Lord and the Lord is that Spirit, both Stephen and Saul declared that name. In Acts 9:5 Saul declares Jesus as the Lord. “Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:….” In Acts 7:59 Stephen declares Jesus as that name” And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus,… This is how Jesus is God. That is the name of the eternal Spirit.

If this is the case why did Peter not say “Thou art the Messiah, the Eternal Spirit.?” Or…he could have said “Thou art the Christ, the Spirit of the living GOD” Or…”Thou art the Christ, the GOD of the living GOD”.

I mean if what you say is true then any of the above statements could also be true, could they not?

But he did not.
Anyway, the very fact that Peter knew his answer was truth…Jesus confirms in the next verse that Flesh and Blood had not revealed that to him.
That his Father had revealed it to him.
Now, at this current Jesus was standing right in front of him in the form of Flesh and Blood. So…if Jesus was in fact GOD himself…then that would have made Jesus a liar…would it have not?

Quote

Matthew 16
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

But then again you could be right…
We could change the word “Father” in verse 17 and make it read “Spirit” and that would make you right.

But the word used here “Pater” for Father in this verse means this:

1. generator or male ancestor
1. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
2. a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
1. fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation
3. one advanced in years, a senior
2. metaph.
1. the originator and transmitter of anything
1. the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
2. one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
2. one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
3. a title of honour
1. teachers, as those to whom pupils trace back the knowledge and training they have received
2. the members of the Sanhedrin, whose prerogative it was by virtue of the wisdom and experience in which they excelled, to take charge of the interests of others
3. God is called the Father
1. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler
2. of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because he is their creator, preserver, guardian and protector
1. of spiritual beings and of all men
3. of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close and intimate relationship with God, and who no longer dread him as a stern judge of sinners, but revere him as their reconciled and loving Father
4. the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes, appointed to explain and carry out among men the plan of salvation, and made to share also in his own divine nature
1. by Jesus Christ himself
2. by the apostles

And the word “Pneuma” Which means Spirit means this:

1. the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \Holy\ Spirit)
2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \Truth\)
3. never referred to as a depersonalised force
2. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
1. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2. the soul
3. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
1. a life giving spirit
2. a human soul that has left the body
3. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4. the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
1. the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5. a movement of air (a gentle blast)
1. of the wind, hence the wind itself
2. breath of nostrils or mouth

As best as I can tell the only way we could tie “Spirit (Pneuma) ” to this word “Father (Pater) ” would be to say that the Spirit of the Father was in Christ.

So, another question to ask would be…

When we get to heaven is there not going to be no GOD…just Jesus?
Or…
Is there only going to be GOD and no Jesus?

Or we going to Heaven?

Or is Heaven coming to us?

I don't know if there will be a need for a “Comforter” anymore since we will be in the direct presence of GOD/ Jesus?

August 8, 2008 at 2:04 am#100646

Participant

Hi GS,
You say
“Hi Gm and Nh

Jn14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, ” If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

John 16:32
Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

August 8, 2008 at 10:58 am#100675

Participant

Hi Samuel,
Excellent arguments my brother, God has revealed those simple truths to you then why not others also realise this revelation?

May God continue to bless you and reveal more truths like that to all.
Adam

August 8, 2008 at 6:32 pm#100700