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Hi not3,
Is God not allowed to use servant/tools?
Should we restrict meanings to what we can now grasp?Nick………so now lets pull out the trinitarian mystery card that alway work right.
Sorry couldn't help it…………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2008,16:16) Hi not3,
Is God not allowed to use servant/tools?
Should we restrict meanings to what we can now grasp?
We should try not to add to basic understanding.Alone is alone.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2008,17:02) Hi not3,
Is that how you can grasp it now?
I think you are really stretching now…..Quote (gsilva72 @ June 02 2008,15:55) Adam, Thanks for the scripture (Ps 33:6)
Only problem is that John 1:3 goes on to say ” and without him nothing was made that was made.”
Hi Silva,
Thanks for your response. You see carefully the verses Jn 1:2-3, “.. and the word was God .. without Him nothing was made that was made”. Here John is talking about God Himself not another God as all those pre-existence believers are thinking but He is the same one and only God who made the heaven and earth, without Him (God) nothing was made that was made. You also see in V2 “the word” is none but God Himself. Can you distinguish God's word apart from Him like you can not separate your words from you?
Please understand clearly you can not make this 'word' straight away to Jesus until it was manifested in the flesh of Jesus (Jn 1:14).
Peace to you
AdamRevelation 1:1 (NIV)- 1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
This scripture proves that Jesus is not God…if Jesus was God how is God giving him a revelation…aka..information he does not know…
Remember he is in heaevn when he is said to recieve this revelation…
rev·e·la·tion (rv-lshn)
n.
1.
a. The act of revealing or disclosing.
b. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2008,17:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2008,08:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2008,08:04) Hi WJ,
So the fulness of God dwelled in Jesus?
I agree.
But why do you worship the vessel rather than the contents?
NHDo you live in a vessel? Are you only flesh?
How do you know I do not worship the contents of the vessel?
Hi WORSHIPPING JESUS,Your name spells it out.
The vessel is your God
but not his and our God.
NHAh, So the Spirit of Yeshua did not dwell in his temple?
Is Yeshua only a temple? Or is he also the contents in that temple?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2008,17:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2008,08:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2008,08:04) Hi WJ,
So the fulness of God dwelled in Jesus?
I agree.
But why do you worship the vessel rather than the contents?
NHDo you live in a vessel? Are you only flesh?
How do you know I do not worship the contents of the vessel?
Hi WORSHIPPING JESUS,Your name spells it out.
The vessel is your God
but not his and our God.
I simply follow Yeshua's followers example.And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Matt 28:9
Hi Adam,
I donot believe Jesus pre-existed in human form. Other scriptures along with John 1:1-3 seem to suggest that he existed in someway other than in bodily form or as God's thought or expression. I am wondering if he could have existed as a soul. He couldn't have existed as a human already, or he had no need to be born. He also couldn't have existed as a Spirit, because there is only one Spirit. So the only other 2 options are as a soul or an expression or thought. I don't believe it is as an expression or thought, because an expression or thought can't receive glory. Remember Jesus did say in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Quote (gsilva72 @ June 03 2008,12:34) Hi Adam,
I donot believe Jesus pre-existed in human form. Other scriptures along with John 1:1-3 seem to suggest that he existed in someway other than in bodily form or as God's thought or expression. I am wondering if he could have existed as a soul. He couldn't have existed as a human already, or he had no need to be born. He also couldn't have existed as a Spirit, because there is only one Spirit. So the only other 2 options are as a soul or an expression or thought. I don't believe it is as an expression or thought, because an expression or thought can't receive glory. Remember Jesus did say in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Hi Gs,
God is the Father of SPIRITS.Quote (gsilva72 @ June 03 2008,12:34) Hi Adam,
I donot believe Jesus pre-existed in human form. Other scriptures along with John 1:1-3 seem to suggest that he existed in someway other than in bodily form or as God's thought or expression. I am wondering if he could have existed as a soul. He couldn't have existed as a human already, or he had no need to be born. He also couldn't have existed as a Spirit, because there is only one Spirit. So the only other 2 options are as a soul or an expression or thought. I don't believe it is as an expression or thought, because an expression or thought can't receive glory. Remember Jesus did say in John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Hi Silva,
Thanks again for your timely response.
You need not think that Jesus was the thought or expression literally. The 'word' which was with God was the very expression or plan of God Himself through which God created this Universe. But Jesus comes into picture only when God wanted His purpose to be fulfilled in a person as He wished in His mind. Please read Isa 55:8-11, God's word will not return to Him invain but executes the very purpose for which it has been sent. That is the way Jesus says ” I came to fulfill my Father's will not my own will”.
Coming to the glory mentioned in Jn 17:5, many times we have debated under the topic ” pre-existence” that the glory mentioned here was the future glory which was promised by God the Father to His son Jesus before the foundations of the world not the existing glory. Also see Eph 1:4-5, even all of us believers were chosen by God before the foundations of the world but it doesn't mean we were also pre-existing like that.
Pease take care
Adam
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