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For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews.
Scripture is simply a tool provided by God and used by Christians to understand the workings of God, His character, and to understand His plan for mankind. In order to be fair and just with the content held in scripture, there are certain principles one must follow in interpreting scripture.CONTEXT
This is the first (and most often missed) mechanical test for an interpretation. Does your hypothesis fit within the immediate context?
Does your hypothesis fit in the general overall and entire context of scripture? For this one might have to study parallel scriptures that speak about the same subject or use the same terms.Culture of the Biblical writers
The Hebrew nation up untill about 100AD had it’s own very different culture. The battle between the Greek or Western Culture and the Easter Culture of the Jews finally came to a close with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
A few kep points to understand about Hebrew culture….
The were concete thinkers. They saw things by virture of what they could hear, see, taste, smell, and touch. Abstract concepts like “believe” or “create from nothing” were not in their vocabulary.
An example would be “wind.” The Hebrews were a nomadic people and would be guided by the tradewinds to guage direction and season. They could not see the wind but could see it’s effects on the leaves of the trees or the sand at their feet. Neither could they see God but they could see his effect on the creation. So thinking in picture stories and concretely they called him a wind or breath, which is translated to English scriptures as “Spirit”. Later on the word “Holy” was added to this. The Hebrew concept of holy is “set asside for a special purpose”. The utemsils of the Tabernacle were called Holy because they were for special purposes. The word Holy was added to differentiate between a “normal” wind and the moving of God upon his creation.Be thorough
Do not enter into study to prove a doctrine, but rather seek truth no matter the outcome. Never stop a study because you found something that appears to support your doctrine. Be honest and exhaust all posibilities before coming to a conclusion.God and His Plan
God’s plan is intricate in detail if one goes through every single act in scripture, but for the purpose of those in the New Covenant it is two fold.
1.God provided a Messiah to be the blood sacrifice to redeem us from the second death. This was a singular mantle and bestowed upon only one man. The actions of this messiah were a responsibility of the job it curtailed.
2.This one man would live a perfect life before God and man in order to be the perfect example to mankind of what it looks like to be a complete representative of God’s character, motives, intentions and heart. The actions/following of this example were the responsibilities of all humanity.
No matter what “scriptural” conclusion a student may come to it can only be right if it does not contradict these plans of God.Pray and be led by the Spirit.
Deception is easy to fall into hearing clearly from God is much harder. Only the person doing the hearing can judge what they hear from God. However, if it is correct it will fit within the above principles.I challenge all who debate to follow these principles to prove their conclusions or to at least provide alternatives to these that can be discussed here.
In addition –
I should have added that it is also important to understand the words of scripture from their original languages.I placed a poll about this post. I hope some will answer it.
I have my fears that many on this forum would follow these simple principles if there is even a chance that they might be proven wrong.I menant to say would not follow these principles in the previous post
Would be nice to have the basic editing tools.Hi M,
God is Holy.
He is not set aside for special purposes.
Does truth only lead to your conclusions or men are idiots?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2010,07:07) Hi M,
God is Holy.
He is not set aside for special purposes.
Does truth only lead to your conclusions or men are idiots?
The Hebrew word for Holy means se aside for a special purpose. Argue with the text not me.Hi Martian,
You said:
Quote For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews. Some of us feel it is YOU who is unfair with scriptural analysis.
mike
Hi M,
What if your dictionaries do not align with scripture?
“Holy, Holy Holy is the Lord of Hosts”Is 6.3 etcQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2010,08:52) Hi M,
What if your dictionaries do not align with scripture?
“Holy, Holy Holy is the Lord of Hosts”Is 6.3 etc
The literal definition of Holy is “set apart as someone/something special.
In one case in scripture the Hebrew word is used to describe prostitutes because they are set apart for a special function.
When you say that God is holy, you are saying that God is set apart from all other Gods as special.
Now, no offense but this is off the subject of this thread.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2010,08:50) Hi Martian, You said:
Quote For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews. Some of us feel it is YOU who is unfair with scriptural analysis.
mike
According to some, I am dishonest and yet I have posted the criteria by which I come to my conclusions for all to see and discuss. Have you?Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2010,08:50) Hi Martian, You said:
Quote For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews. Some of us feel it is YOU who is unfair with scriptural analysis.
mike
Instead of making accusations why don't you post your own criteria or discuss those I have posted.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 25 2010,14:57) Hi M,
So you agree your first use of the word was not correct?
Thanks
In what way did I change my definition?Now I forced to deal with this issue. AS soon as I can I am going to go back to the subject. Stop stealing the thread.
Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,14:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2010,08:50) Hi Martian, You said:
Quote For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews. Some of us feel it is YOU who is unfair with scriptural analysis.
mike
According to some, I am dishonest and yet I have posted the criteria by which I come to my conclusions for all to see and discuss. Have you?
I have not posted it in a list, as you have. But I have researched my interpretations, expecially when challenged on them.mike
ps, I never called you dishonest. That's what YOU called ME.
mike
Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,14:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2010,08:50) Hi Martian, You said:
Quote For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews. Some of us feel it is YOU who is unfair with scriptural analysis.
mike
Instead of making accusations why don't you post your own criteria or discuss those I have posted.
Well, for one, I feel it was “unfair” of you to post that “bara” only meant to “fatten” or “fill up” when that is actually not the case.And when I showed you the evidence that that was not the case, did you address it? Or did you just ignore it as if it wasn't there?
How is that “fair” scriptural analysis?
mike
Hi M,
You first said
“The Hebrew word for Holy means se aside for a special purpose. Argue with the text not me.”Then you said
“The literal definition of Holy is “set apart as someone/something special.”
They are not the same yet you will not acknowledge this?
Was I arguing with scripture?Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,03:32) For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews.
Scripture is simply a tool provided by God and used by Christians to understand the workings of God, His character, and to understand His plan for mankind. In order to be fair and just with the content held in scripture, there are certain principles one must follow in interpreting scripture.CONTEXT
This is the first (and most often missed) mechanical test for an interpretation. Does your hypothesis fit within the immediate context?
Does your hypothesis fit in the general overall and entire context of scripture? For this one might have to study parallel scriptures that speak about the same subject or use the same terms.Culture of the Biblical writers
The Hebrew nation up untill about 100AD had it’s own very different culture. The battle between the Greek or Western Culture and the Easter Culture of the Jews finally came to a close with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
A few kep points to understand about Hebrew culture….
The were concete thinkers. They saw things by virture of what they could hear, see, taste, smell, and touch. Abstract concepts like “believe” or “create from nothing” were not in their vocabulary.
An example would be “wind.” The Hebrews were a nomadic people and would be guided by the tradewinds to guage direction and season. They could not see the wind but could see it’s effects on the leaves of the trees or the sand at their feet. Neither could they see God but they could see his effect on the creation. So thinking in picture stories and concretely they called him a wind or breath, which is translated to English scriptures as “Spirit”. Later on the word “Holy” was added to this. The Hebrew concept of holy is “set asside for a special purpose”. The utemsils of the Tabernacle were called Holy because they were for special purposes. The word Holy was added to differentiate between a “normal” wind and the moving of God upon his creation.Be thorough
Do not enter into study to prove a doctrine, but rather seek truth no matter the outcome. Never stop a study because you found something that appears to support your doctrine. Be honest and exhaust all posibilities before coming to a conclusion.God and His Plan
God’s plan is intricate in detail if one goes through every single act in scripture, but for the purpose of those in the New Covenant it is two fold.
1.God provided a Messiah to be the blood sacrifice to redeem us from the second death. This was a singular mantle and bestowed upon only one man. The actions of this messiah were a responsibility of the job it curtailed.
2.This one man would live a perfect life before God and man in order to be the perfect example to mankind of what it looks like to be a complete representative of God’s character, motives, intentions and heart. The actions/following of this example were the responsibilities of all humanity.
No matter what “scriptural” conclusion a student may come to it can only be right if it does not contradict these plans of God.Pray and be led by the Spirit.
Deception is easy to fall into hearing clearly from God is much harder. Only the person doing the hearing can judge what they hear from God. However, if it is correct it will fit within the above principles.I challenge all who debate to follow these principles to prove their conclusions or to at least provide alternatives to these that can be discussed here.
martian,I appreciate that you have set forth some of the standards necessary for learning the meaning of the scriptures.
You have presented reasonable and appropriate logical standards to properly allow the scripture to speak for itself.
When believers begin to adopt objective principles by which to study scripture, then we will begin to see more of the unity that God designed into His church and less denominations and division.
May I add a few more.
In the verse. Most scripture is simple and direct enough to get the basic concepts in it from the verse alone. Examples are Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth” Plain and simple. John 3:16, which we all know and love.
Of course, fine tuning our understanding of what is written will require more principle, but the basics are there.
One more I might add for now. Scripture does a great job of defining its own terms. Take for instance, Paul's thorn in the flesh. II Corinthians 12:7-10. Are there other similar phrases that help define how the scripture uses it, and how the scripture intends it to be understood as? Yes. Look at Numbers 33:55 and Joshua 23:13. The usage of thorns in their side or pricks in their eyes is referring to people, specifically to unbelievers. See II Corinthians 11:24-26. Who was it that beat up Paul? People. Who was putting Paul in peril? People. Let's apply the “in the verse” principle to II Corinthians 12:7. Was it a messenger from God? No, it was a messenger from Satan. Satan worked hard to get people to obstruct Paul's ministry. Paul's thorn in the flesh is people, who obstructed Paul's ministry.
The truth of God's word is simple. We simply need to let it speak for itself.
I particularly enjoyed your line, “Do not enter into study to prove a doctrine, but rather seek truth no matter the outcome.”
barley
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 26 2010,06:15) Hi M, You first said
“The Hebrew word for Holy means se aside for a special purpose. Argue with the text not me.”Then you said
“The literal definition of Holy is “set apart as someone/something special.”
They are not the same yet you will not acknowledge this?
Was I arguing with scripture?
That reference to “something special was in respect your verse containing Holy God. It simply means that God(YHWH ) is special and set apart from and different then all the other Gods.
Holy God simple means that YHWH is set aside as something special beyond the other Gods.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2010,03:55) Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,14:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2010,08:50) Hi Martian, You said:
Quote For years I have wasted time debating with those that are no more fair with scriptural analisis then Hitler was fair to the Jews. Some of us feel it is YOU who is unfair with scriptural analysis.
mike
Instead of making accusations why don't you post your own criteria or discuss those I have posted.
Well, for one, I feel it was “unfair” of you to post that “bara” only meant to “fatten” or “fill up” when that is actually not the case.And when I showed you the evidence that that was not the case, did you address it? Or did you just ignore it as if it wasn't there?
How is that “fair” scriptural analysis?
mike
I may not be a fast as you because I try to cover all the bases instead of stopping as soon as I have something that seems to support my theory. I have now posted to that subject in the Preexistence thread.
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