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Quote (Stu @ June 05 2009,05:06) How is your god not exactly as fictional as the FSM (bhna)? Stuart
Stu 5/5/2009
Yes of course there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Stu,
Which is it for you? You announce, “Yes of course there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster.” Then you say he his fictional.
I announce, “Yes of course there is a God.” I'll stick with it.
People, like yourself, readily admit your Flying Spaghetti Monster is fictional. Rarely do many place their faith and trust in him.
People deny that God is fictional and place their full faith and trust in Him.
Are you familiar with a long list of debates regarding existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Debates continue to go on regarding the existence of God because it is as logical/illogical to believe in Him as it is logic/illogical not to,
depending on your persuasion.I'm off now to check this out at my favorite Italian resturant.
Maybe they know something of this Flying Spaghetti Monster you speak of.Blessings,
Seeking
SEEKING
Quote Yes of course there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Which is it for you? You announce, “Yes of course there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster.” Then you say he his fictional.
I announce, “Yes of course there is a God.” I'll stick with it.
Yes there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Yes it is fictional. Is that clear?!Quote People, like yourself, readily admit your Flying Spaghetti Monster is fictional. Rarely do many place their faith and trust in him.
As you would expect. Placing your trust in something that does not actually exist is an important temporary development phase for young children. Hence superheroes and imaginary friends. Follow the advice of your beloved Saul of Tarsus in Corinthians and leave the things of childhood behind!Quote People deny that God is fictional and place their full faith and trust in Him.
And they have not one single good reason to do so. And many in history have had a vested interest in you believing in non-existent deities for political reasons. They have parasitically exploited the human brain’s weakness for such believing, which is also manifest in many other areas of our lives, indeed illusion is how the brain allows us to cope with all the information we constantly get through our senses. To assert that the illusions of your brain are actually true shows some naivety. Of course you are not alone in that, and christianity still feeds on the strength that comes from sheer numbers of deluded people.Quote Are you familiar with a long list of debates regarding existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Yes, although because the FSM was invented by intelligent people for a purpose, there is little need to discuss it. It is pretty clear what it stands for already.Quote Debates continue to go on regarding the existence of God because it is as logical/illogical to believe in Him as it is logic/illogical not to, depending on your persuasion.
I suppose such debates are a curious outcome of whatever psychological traits cause some of us to have Imaginary Friends.Quote I'm off now to check this out at my favorite Italian resturant.
Maybe they know something of this Flying Spaghetti Monster you speak of.
Enjoy your meal! The FSM smiles on those who dine in Italian style!Stuart
Stu,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote Follow the advice of your beloved Saul of Tarsus in Corinthians and leave the things of childhood behind! Ah yes, I have -as you should. He and I believe in God.
Quote Are you familiar with a long list of debates regarding existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Stu states –
Yes, although because the FSM was invented by intelligent people for a purpose, there is little need to discuss it. It is pretty clear what it stands for already.Oh please, share with us. Where did these debates take place? Some prestigious university perhaps!
Quote although because the FSM was invented by intelligent people for a purpose, And that purpose was…
Quote Enjoy your meal! The FSM smiles on those who dine in Italian style! Sure he does! Invented by “intelligent” people for financial gain. Children do a better job at dreaming up imaginary friends.
Don't let the “Flying Spagheti Monster”, or any other monster
your intelligensia conjure up, ruin your dreaming.Seeking
It was not invented to make money, but like any new religion there are profits to be made. You can read all about it in the Holy Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 06 2009,02:15) It was not invented to make money, but like any new religion there are profits to be made. You can read all about it in the Holy Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster
Stuart
I see. So your religion has followed the plight of those you condemn. FSM originators, the intelligent developers, should have consulted with you to avoid the plight of preying on their believers.Seeking
Quote (SEEKING @ June 07 2009,00:09) Quote (Stu @ June 06 2009,02:15) It was not invented to make money, but like any new religion there are profits to be made. You can read all about it in the Holy Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster
Stuart
I see. So your religion has followed the plight of those you condemn. FSM originators, the intelligent developers, should have consulted with you to avoid the plight of preying on their believers.Seeking
What?The FSM was invented to make a point to the idiot fundies on the Kansas Board of Education that since they were coy about admitting that they needed to align science with the gods of their own pea-sized brains, in fact the proposed intelligent designer could in scientific terms just as likely be the Flying Spaghetti Monster as any other designer. Legally they could not argue with that, of course. Philosophically they can't defeat it either!
Another thing to be familiar with is the Wedge Document, which can be found easily in the gospel of Google. In it, the intelligent design movement shows itself to be a political organisation promoting the goal of injecting creationism and other religious absurdities into publicly funded schools. It could be argued that this is a US problem, but so many other countries like NZ end up with the ripples that spread outwards from such bilious religious nonsense as that promoted by these psychiatric cases.
The wider point of the Church of the FSM (bhna) is that your nonsense is no better or worse than their nonsense.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 06 2009,10:15) The wider point of the Church of the FSM (bhna) is that your nonsense is no better or worse than their nonsense. Stuart
Thank you for confirming that they recognize their submissions as nonsense. You contend for their “nonsense” tenacioiusly knowing it is nonsense. Is this the pathway of intelligent people?It is one thing to be duped, confused, ignorant, etc. as you claim Christians are, but to deliberately promote nonsense falls right in line with the politics of the day.
The terms you use, ” idiot fundies” – ” pea-sized brains” –
“bilious religious nonsense”, would seem to fit pundits of FSM nonsense as well.Were I convinced Christianity is nonsense I would not espouse it. Hopefully, I would have enough insight not to jump on another “nonsense” bandwagon and espouse it instead.
Seeking
Seeking
Quote Thank you for confirming that they recognize their submissions as nonsense.
Likewise, I’m sure!Quote You contend for their “nonsense” tenacioiusly knowing it is nonsense. Is this the pathway of intelligent people?
You need to be intelligent to understand that the FSM has been demonstrated to be true as much as the Judeo-christian god has been. Any of us can propose whatever gods we like. There is no reason that anyone else should take us seriously. That is my view on your god too.Quote It is one thing to be duped, confused, ignorant, etc. as you claim Christians are, but to deliberately promote nonsense falls right in line with the politics of the day.
If you are duped then you are duped. Some might take longer than others to realise that their Judeo-christian Imaginary Friend may as well be hot air for all that 2/3 of the world cares. Of course when some of them kill people or bomb things, or scare young children because they think that will promote belief in their Imaginary Friend, it gets more serious.Quote The terms you use, ” idiot fundies” – ” pea-sized brains” –
“bilious religious nonsense”, would seem to fit pundits of FSM nonsense as well.
I am not usually that unpleasant to people in this personal way, but although these particular great apes have been shown that they are wrong, they have persisted with their religio-political lies. The FSM devotees are not in the same category because they do not actually think there really is such a thing. The fundies really do, and they are determined to inflict their delusion on others, in the case of ID, schoolchildren who have not yet developed their critical thinking skills. That makes them despicable, in my opinion.Quote Were I convinced Christianity is nonsense I would not espouse it. Hopefully, I would have enough insight not to jump on another “nonsense” bandwagon and espouse it instead.
If christianity ceased to exist, so would claims about the FSM.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 07 2009,01:19) Seeking Quote Thank you for confirming that they recognize their submissions as nonsense.
Likewise, I’m sure!Quote You contend for their “nonsense” tenacioiusly knowing it is nonsense. Is this the pathway of intelligent people?
You need to be intelligent to understand that the FSM has been demonstrated to be true as much as the Judeo-christian god has been. Any of us can propose whatever gods we like. There is no reason that anyone else should take us seriously. That is my view on your god too.Quote It is one thing to be duped, confused, ignorant, etc. as you claim Christians are, but to deliberately promote nonsense falls right in line with the politics of the day.
If you are duped then you are duped. Some might take longer than others to realise that their Judeo-christian Imaginary Friend may as well be hot air for all that 2/3 of the world cares. Of course when some of them kill people or bomb things, or scare young children because they think that will promote belief in their Imaginary Friend, it gets more serious.Quote The terms you use, ” idiot fundies” – ” pea-sized brains” –
“bilious religious nonsense”, would seem to fit pundits of FSM nonsense as well.
I am not usually that unpleasant to people in this personal way, but although these particular great apes have been shown that they are wrong, they have persisted with their religio-political lies. The FSM devotees are not in the same category because they do not actually think there really is such a thing. The fundies really do, and they are determined to inflict their delusion on others, in the case of ID, schoolchildren who have not yet developed their critical thinking skills. That makes them despicable, in my opinion.Quote Were I convinced Christianity is nonsense I would not espouse it. Hopefully, I would have enough insight not to jump on another “nonsense” bandwagon and espouse it instead.
If christianity ceased to exist, so would claims about the FSM.Stuart
Thank you for your opinion. We all hold to and cherish our convictions as sacred, don't we.I personally cannot defend the existence of something which claims its only need to exist to be something the proponenets claim do not exist.
Quote If christianity ceased to exist, so would claims about the FSM. Stuart
The potential of any fairy tale is to harm or help.
You say –
Quote You need to be intelligent to understand that the FSM has been demonstrated to be true as much as the Judeo-christian god has been. Any of us can propose whatever gods we like. There is no reason that anyone else should take us seriously. That is my view on your god too. It is not intelligence that is required, it is bias against Christianity. I see pictures of man's concept as to the appearance of your FSM god. He is the figment of imagination. I find no pictures of man's concept of God. It is realized that He is beyond our intellect and imagnation.
Atheist must be able to reduce things to the size of their intellect and we see the result in things like FSM.
Seeking
Seeking
Quote Thank you for your opinion. We all hold to and cherish our convictions as sacred, don't we.
No, mine are not sacred, they are subject to the appearance of evidence that proves I am wrong. You have provided no evidence for your god so I shall carry on treating it like any other god.Quote I personally cannot defend the existence of something which claims its only need to exist to be something the proponenets claim do not exist.
Not sure that makes grammatical sense. Maybe I missed something.Quote The potential of any fairy tale is to harm or help.
But these fairy tales claim that the fairies are real. How is that a help?Quote It is not intelligence that is required, it is bias against Christianity. I see pictures of man's concept as to the appearance of your FSM god. He is the figment of imagination. I find no pictures of man's concept of God. It is realized that He is beyond our intellect and imagnation.
Have you never seen the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, or pictures of it?Stuart
Stu,June wrote:[/quote]
Quote No, mine are not sacred, they are subject to the appearance of evidence that proves I am wrong. You have provided no evidence for your god so I shall carry on treating it like any other god. Masses of evidence have been provided over the centuries to substantiate the validity of Christianity. As in a trial, evidence can be ignored and verdicts reached. Sorry, your bias goes ahead of your conclusions.
Quote Not sure that makes grammatical sense. Maybe I missed something Probably, ponder it.
Quote But these fairy tales claim that the fairies are real. How is that a help? Some believe all fairy tales to be true, thuis, yours are of NO
help.Quote Have you never seen the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, or pictures of it? I stand corrected. At least one thought he had the proper view in mind. Despite the greatness of the work, I find that t for an artist to think he can capture the essence of God in paint is quite assumptive.
Seeking
Seeking
Quote Masses of evidence have been provided over the centuries to substantiate the validity of Christianity. As in a trial, evidence can be ignored and verdicts reached. Sorry, your bias goes ahead of your conclusions.
Yet you have not given me one single example of all this evidence. Are you saying there is evidence that substantiates some of the historical references in scripture? None of that validates christianity as a belief system. It just shows that scripture is a work of historical fiction. I stand by my evidence-based bias. Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary.Quote Despite the greatness of the work, I find that t for an artist to think he can capture the essence of God in paint is quite assumptive.
Michelangelo was only after the likeness of god. Neither christians nor atheists would quibble with his conclusions: like cartoon drawings of Superman or Mickey Mouse it is a depiction of a fictional character. This likeness is reasonable: according to christian mythology we are made in the image of this god, so something that looks human is consistent. Sigmund Freud tells us that our gods replace parents, specifically fathers, so an older man fits appropriately.Stuart
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 09 2009,23:21) Why would man characterize God as an older human.
Is He ageing?
Will He eventually die of old age?Tim
Ask Nietzsche.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 09 2009,02:03) Yet you have not given me one single example of all this evidence. Are you saying there is evidence that substantiates some of the historical references in scripture? None of that validates christianity as a belief system.
Come now! Eye witnesses testified to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Historians with no Christian convictions
attested to the validity also. (Josephus for one)As you pointed out, the Bible spoke long before archelogists
discovered lost cities. That doesn't necessarily validate the Christian belief. It does show that the Bible was ahead of the discoverers of later date.You are intelligent enough to know that there is much empirical evidence. Yet, it can be denied, laughed at, and followers lableled with many of the names you have called them.
Again, Atheism must have something it can create and box.
Thus their followers make themselves god. That definately is a god I don't need.1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you–unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.Seeking
Quote (Stu @ June 09 2009,23:39) Quote (TimothyVI @ June 09 2009,23:21) Why would man characterize God as an older human.
Is He ageing?
Will He eventually die of old age?Tim
Ask Nietzsche.Stuart
Didn't Nietzsche say something about God being dead,
that we had killed Him?God didn't die of old age in the mind of Nietzsche.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 10 2009,07:00) Quote (Stu @ June 09 2009,23:39) Quote (TimothyVI @ June 09 2009,23:21) Why would man characterize God as an older human.
Is He ageing?
Will He eventually die of old age?Tim
Ask Nietzsche.Stuart
Didn't Nietzsche say something about God being dead,
that we had killed Him?God didn't die of old age in the mind of Nietzsche.
Tim
The single god of abrahamic monotheism would have been at least 8,000 years old when Nietzsche finished him off. I hope I look as good as Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel depiction when I am 8,000.Stuart
Seeking
Quote Come now! Eye witnesses testified to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.
Nope. Not a single one. There is no eyewitness account of Jesus.Quote Historians with no Christian convictions attested to the validity also. (Josephus for one)
Josephus, if you can read through the amendments made by christians writes of hearsay about Jesus. That is not an eyewitness testimony of anything more than what we ourselves could write today about what we observe.Quote You are intelligent enough to know that there is much empirical evidence. Yet, it can be denied, laughed at, and followers lableled with many of the names you have called them.
I repeat: the archeology shows that there were places and people with the same names as depicted in scripture. Events as described mostly did not take place, or are supernatural interpretations of commonplace events that actually need no supernatural explanations. So what evidence do you mean?Quote Again, Atheism must have something it can create and box. Thus their followers make themselves god. That definately is a god I don't need.
That is a bit ham-fisted isn’t it? Surely you have a more credible shot than that!Quote 1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you–unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
All superstitions. No evidence anywhere. No good reason to believe it. Lots of reasons to reject it.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 10 2009,19:46) The single god of abrahamic monotheism would have been at least 8,000 years old when Nietzsche finished him off. I hope I look as good as Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel depiction when I am 8,000. Stuart
Not a chance.
It is a proven scientific fact that you will have lost most of your hair before you turn 7,000.Tim
Stu,June wrote:Quote
Nope. Not a single one. There is no eyewitness account of Jesus.You can deny them, as I said, but that does NOT invalidate them.
1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.Call Paul a liar or a lunatic, but don't deny what he said.
Quote That is a bit ham-fisted isn’t it? Surely you have a more credible shot than that! Not “ham-fisted” at all, but rather, as credible as anythig you have presented.
Quote No good reason to believe it. Lots of reasons to reject it. Stuart
Equally true of Evolution theory.
Seeking
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