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Hi CON,
Why would you think he is speaking of personal attacks?
False doctrine is fair game for anyone.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 07 2009,20:03) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 06 2009,18:44) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 06 2009,22:18) Emperor Constantine is the Father of Chritianity, the Apostles went by two terms during their ministry “Slaves unto the Messiah” and “The Way.” The word Christian(s), Christianity, etc, was placed into scripture by the translators.
Hi Con:And so, are you saying that the following scripture is not correct?
Quote Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. If so, what is your source that indicates that “Christians” was added by the translators?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Maybe the same way Easter made it's way into Scripture?Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Hi Con:What version of the bible used Easter? I have looked at several versions and all these say “Passover”.
Love in Christ,
MartyKJV used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. KJV Act 12:4
American King James version used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. AKJV Act 12:4
Geneva Study bible version used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. Geneva Study bible Act 12:4
Hebrews use: Pecach, Pacach,
When he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of four soldiers each to guard him, intending to bring him out to the people after the “Pesach”. HNV Act 12:4
quem cum adprehendisset misit in carcerem tradens quattuor quaternionibus militum custodire eum volens post pascha producere eum populo Vulgate Act 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he cast him into prison, delivering him to four files of soldiers to be kept, intending, after the pasch, to bring him forth to the people. Douay-Rheims Bible Act 12:4
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary states “Easter” should have never made it into the Bible “intending after Easter-rather, “after the Passover”; that is, after the whole festival was over. (The word in our King James Version is an ecclesiastical term of later date, and ought not to have been employed here).”
So why did it? Greco Roman Hellinization? Creeping into future cultures?
Also who made up the body of translaters in the King James council and who was in charge of each group? Church of Rome?
Thoughts to ponder.
Hi CON,
God has allowed the bias of translators to influence bibles and we cannot grasp it without the guidance of the true Author's Spirit.
Through many tribulations we enter the kingdom of God.[acts14]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 07 2009,19:07) Hi CON,
God has allowed the bias of translators to influence bibles and we cannot grasp it without the guidance of the true Author's Spirit.
Through many tribulations we enter the kingdom of God.[acts14]
TrueQuote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 08 2009,12:43) KJV used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. KJV Act 12:4 American King James version used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. AKJV Act 12:4
Geneva Study bible version used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. Geneva Study bible Act 12:4
Hebrews use: Pecach, Pacach,
When he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of four soldiers each to guard him, intending to bring him out to the people after the “Pesach”. HNV Act 12:4
quem cum adprehendisset misit in carcerem tradens quattuor quaternionibus militum custodire eum volens post pascha producere eum populo Vulgate Act 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he cast him into prison, delivering him to four files of soldiers to be kept, intending, after the pasch, to bring him forth to the people. Douay-Rheims Bible Act 12:4
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary states “Easter” should have never made it into the Bible “intending after Easter-rather, “after the Passover”; that is, after the whole festival was over. (The word in our King James Version is an ecclesiastical term of later date, and ought not to have been employed here).”
So why did it? Greco Roman Hellinization? Creeping into future cultures?
Also who made up the body of translaters in the King James council and who was in charge of each group? Church of Rome?
Thoughts to ponder.
Hi Con:Thanks for making me aware of this. Somehow, I thought that KJV read “Passover” rather than “Easter”.
The points that you make are indeed thoughts to ponder, but of course, even if they used this word, we know what was being stated through the scripture.
We just need to be informed that these problems are there, and so, again, thank you for making me aware of this.
Love in Christ,
MartyAnother Greco Roman Pagan word that was translated into the Bible:
Hades (Greek: ᾍδης – Hadēs or Ἅιδης – Háidēs, Άδης) (“unseen”): means both the ancient Greek abode of the dead and the god of that underworld. The word originally referred to just the god; haidou, its genitive, was short for “the house of Hades”, and eventually the nominative, too, came to designate the abode of the dead.
The corresponding Roman god was Pluto (from Greek Πλουτων), Dis Pater or Orcus; the corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. “Hades” is sometimes employed by Christians as a classicizing euphemism for their Hell, which otherwise has few of the attributes of Hades.
Hades: the place –
There were several sections of Hades, including the Elysian Fields (contrast the Christian Paradise or Heaven), and Tartarus, (compare the Christian Hell). Greek mythographers were not perfectly consistent about the geography of the Afterlife.
A contrasting myth of the Afterlife concerns the Garden of the Hesperides, often identified with the Isles of the Blessed.
In Roman mythology, an entrance to the underworld located at Avernus, a crater near Cumae, was the route Aeneas used to descend to the Underworld. By synecdoche, “Avernus” could be substituted for the underworld as a whole. The Inferi Dii were the Roman gods of the underworld.
Hades: the person –
In Greek mythology, Hades (the “unseen”), the god of the underworld, was a son of the Titans Cronus and Rhea. He had three older sisters, Hestia, Demeter, and Hera, as well as two younger brothers, Poseidon and Zeus: together they accounted for half of the Olympian gods.
Hades ruled the dead, assisted by demons over whom he had complete authority.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/grecoromanmyth1/g/hades.htm
Quote Hades. Greek hades, from a (privative) and idein, to see (Appendix 133. I. i); used by the Greeks for the unseen world. The meaning which the Greeks put upon it does not concern us; nor have we anything to do with the imaginations of the heathen, or the traditions of Jews or Romanists, or the teachings of demons or evil spirits, or of any who still cling to them.
The Holy Spirit has used it as one of the “words pertaining to the earth”, and in so doing has “purified” it, “as silver tried in a furnace” (see notes on Psalms 12:6). From this we learn that His own words “are pure”, but words belonging to this earth have to be “purified”.
The Old Testament is the fountain head of the Hebrew language. It has no literature behind it. But the case is entirely different with the Greek language. The Hebrew Sheol is a word Divine in its origin and usage. The Greek Hades is human in its origin and comes down to us laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meanings, and usages.
Seeing that the Holy Spirit has used it in Acts 2:27, 31 as His own equivalent of Sheol in Psalm 16:10, He has settled, once for all, the sense in which we are to understand it. The meaning He has given to Sheol in Psalms 16:10 is the one meaning we are to give it wherever it occurs in the New Testament, whether we transliterate it or translate it. We have no liberty to do otherwise, and must discard everything outside the Word of God.
The word occurs eleven times (Matthew 11:23; 16:18. Luke 10:15; 16:23. Acts 2:27, 31. 1Corinthians 15:55. Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14); and is rendered “hell” in every passage except one, where it is rendered “grave” (1Corinthians 15:55, margin “hell”).
In the Revised Version the word is always transliterated “Hades”, except in 1Corinthians 15:55 (where “death” is substituted because of the reading, in all the texts, of thanate for hade), and in the American Revised Version also.
As Hades is the Divine Scriptural equivalent of Sheol, further light may be gained from Appendix 35, and a reference to the 65 passages there given. It may be well to note that while “Hades” is rendered “hell” in the New Testament (except once, where the rendering “the grave” could not be avoided), Sheol, its Hebrew equivalent, occurs 65 times, and is rendered “the grave” 31 times (or 54%); “hell” 31 times (4 times with margin “the grave”, reducing it to 41.5%); and “pit” only 3 times (or 4.5 %).
“The grave”, therefore, is obviously the best rendering, meaning the state of death (German sterbend, for which we have no English equivalent); not the act of dying, as an examination of all the occurrences of both words will show.
The rendering “pit” so evidently means “the grave” that it may at once be substituted for it (Numbers 16:30, 33. Job 17:16).
The rendering “the grave” (not “a grave”, which is Hebrew keber or bor) exactly expresses the meaning of both Sheol and Hades. For, as to direction, it is always down: as to place, it is in the earth: as to relation, it is always in contrast with the state of the living (Deuteronomy 32:22-25 and 1Samuel 2:6-8); as to association, it is connected with mourning (Genesis 37:34, 35), sorrow (Genesis 42:38. 2Samuel 22:6. Psalms 18:5; 116:3), fright and terror (Numbers 16:27, 34), mourning (Isaiah 38:3, 10, 17, 18), silence (Psalms 6:5; 31:17. Ecclesiastes 9:10), no knowledge (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10), punishment (Numbers 16:29, 34. 1Kings 2:6, 9. Job 24:19. Psalms 9:17 (Revised Version = re-turned)), corruption (Psalms 16:10. Acts 2:27, 31); as to duration, resurrection is the only exit from it (Psalms 16:11. Acts 2:27, 31; 13:33-37. 1Corinthians 15:55. Revelation 1:18; 20:5, 13, 14). <a href="http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app131.html
” target=”_blank”>http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app131.html%5B/B%5D%5B/QUOTE%5D
“Hades” means “the grave” (Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 20:14). The body of Jesus rested there and His saints are resting there now awaiting the resurrection.
The Greek word “Hades” is translated as “Hell” in many English Bibles such as the King James Version. In Revelation 6:8, the King James Version refers to “Death and Hell [Hades].” It does the same in Revelation 20:14. Yet some English Bibles use the word “Hades” itself, such as the New International Version, which translates both Revelation 6:8 and 20:14 as “Death, and Hades.” Now here is the point; In Revelation 20:14 “Hades” (“Hell”) is eventually “cast into the lake of fire.” So as you can therefore see, “Hades” itself is not a fiery place, but is cast into “the lake of fire” (hell fire). (Italics added)
So Biblically speaking, Hades means the grave. This is easy to prove from 1 Corinthians 15:55, which in the King James Version states, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave [Hades], where is thy victory?” If you look in the Strong’s dictionary, you will find that the Greek word here translated “grave” is “Hades.” By looking at the context, it is obvious that “Hades” means “the grave” because it is God’s saints who rise out of “Hades” when Jesus Christ returns. See 1 Corinthians 15:50-55. Therefore, “Hades” cannot mean a place of burning, for who can imagine God’s people writhing in flames as they await the resurrection? That would be absolutely ludicrous! Additional proof that “Hades” means “the grave” is the fact that “Hades” was the place Jesus Christ’s body rested in immediately after His death. Acts 2:31 reads, “His [Christ’s] soul was not left in hell [Hades] neither [did] his flesh see corruption.” (Italics added.) http:
//www.thetruthabouthell.net/http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellCharts.htm
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 07 2009,20:11) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 08 2009,12:43) KJV used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered [him] to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. KJV Act 12:4 American King James version used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. AKJV Act 12:4
Geneva Study bible version used “Easter”: And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after “Easter” (pascha) to bring him forth to the people. Geneva Study bible Act 12:4
Hebrews use: Pecach, Pacach,
When he had arrested him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four squads of four soldiers each to guard him, intending to bring him out to the people after the “Pesach”. HNV Act 12:4
quem cum adprehendisset misit in carcerem tradens quattuor quaternionibus militum custodire eum volens post pascha producere eum populo Vulgate Act 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he cast him into prison, delivering him to four files of soldiers to be kept, intending, after the pasch, to bring him forth to the people. Douay-Rheims Bible Act 12:4
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary states “Easter” should have never made it into the Bible “intending after Easter-rather, “after the Passover”; that is, after the whole festival was over. (The word in our King James Version is an ecclesiastical term of later date, and ought not to have been employed here).”
So why did it? Greco Roman Hellinization? Creeping into future cultures?
Also who made up the body of translaters in the King James council and who was in charge of each group? Church of Rome?
Thoughts to ponder.
Hi Con:Thanks for making me aware of this. Somehow, I thought that KJV read “Passover” rather than “Easter”.
The points that you make are indeed thoughts to ponder, but of course, even if they used this word, we know what was being stated through the scripture.
We just need to be informed that these problems are there, and so, again, thank you for making me aware of this.
Love in Christ,
Marty
We know the differences, but what about the novice, who has celebrated a Pagan Easter all his/her life? What if the truly do not understand the Passover? See where the damage lays with traditional teachings? Especially the last 2000 years mixing the two.Deut 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell (sheol – 7585), and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundationsof the mountains.
2 Sam 22:6 The sorrows of hell (sheol – 7585) compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell (sheol – 7585); what canst thou know?
Job 26:6 Hell (sheol – 7585) is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol – 7585), and all the nations that forget God.
Ps 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol – 7585); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Ps 18:5 The sorrows of hell (sheol – 7585) compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Ps 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell (sheol – 7585): for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
Ps 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell (sheol – 7585).
Ps 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell (sheol – 7585) gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell (sheol – 7585), behold, thou art there.
Prov 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell (sheol – 7585).
Prov 7:27 Her house is the way to hell (sheol – 7585), going down to the chambers of death.
Prov 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell (sheol – 7585).
Prov 15:11 Hell (sheol – 7585) and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Prov 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell (sheol – 7585) beneath.
Prov 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (sheol – 7585).
Prov 27:20 Hell (sheol – 7585) and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.
Isa 5:14 Therefore hell (sheol – 7585) hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Isa 14:9 Hell (sheol – 7585) from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell (sheol – 7585), to the sides of the pit.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell (sheol – 7585) are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell (sheol – 7585) shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell (sheol – 7585).
Ezek 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell (sheol – 7585) with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Ezek 31:17 They also went down into hell (sheol – 7585) with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.
Ezek 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell (sheol – 7585) with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
Ezek 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell (sheol – 7585) with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
Amos 9:2 Though they dig into hell (sheol – 7585), thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell (sheol – 7585) cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Hab 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell (sheol – 7585), and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (geenna – 1067) fire.
Matt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (geenna – 1067).
Matt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (geenna – 1067).
Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (geenna – 1067).
Matt 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell (hades – 86): for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell (hades – 86) shall not prevail against it.
Matt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell (geenna – 1067) fire.
Matt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell (geenna – 1067) than yourselves.
Matt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell (geenna – 1067)?
Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (geenna – 1067), into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell (geenna – 1067), into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell (geenna – 1067) fire:
Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell (hades – 86).
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell (geenna – 1067); yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luke 16:23 And in hell (hades – 86) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades – 86), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul
was not left in hell (hades – 86), neither his flesh did see corruption.James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell (geenna – 1067).
2 Pet 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartaroo – 5020), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (hades – 86) and of death.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell (hades – 86) followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (hades – 86) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (hades – 86) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Hi,
The name of the thread is deceptive.
The origin of Christianity is God in Christ Jesus.
The language used does not give the origin or confound the work of the Spirit of God.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 08 2009,05:45) Attacks? I am attacking no one.
I am only trying to show how pagan myths blend and overlap each other, and you are trying to seperate each one, and then claim I am attacking.
You not a nice person. I believe our dialogue has ended.
I suppose Jesus was not a nice person when he called certain individuals “a brood of vipers.”
That is irrelevant since you seem to object to the word “attack” which does not always have a negative connotation. I have no problem with attempting to destroy false arguments or in other words attacking them.
I am just part of the choir when the attack is on the Catholic dogma as long as the attack is legitimate.
I assure you Catholics are well known to borrow from pagan beliefs to advance their doctrine. It is certainly a dangerous practice but not necessary immoral. On the other hand if they actually alter their doctrine in doing so then it is deadly.
You should point out the similarity between the religion of Astarte and the idea that Jesus is God/Demigod in a thread on that subject.
2 Corinthians 10:3-5(NIV) reads:
Quote For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
Similarity of sounds in different languages is often coincidences. That is the same with the same language as “there” and “their” have different meanings despite sounding the same.
The second syllable of “Joseph” and the correct pronunciation of “Zeus”, i.e. “Zevs” sound similar.
I have looked up the meaning of “Zeus” and according to one source it means “living”. I also looked up the name “Perseus” who is one of his sons who has a syllable in his name that sounds similar to Zeus' name. “Perseus” seems to mean destroyer.
Hellenistic Greece corresponds to the period between the death of Alexander the Great in 323 BC and the annexation of the classical Greek heartlands by Rome in 146 BC.
Although the establishment of Roman rule did not break the continuity of Hellenistic society and culture, which remained essentially unchanged until the advent of Christianity, it did mark the end of Greek political independence.
The change of culture was not a replacement by Christianity, but the change of culture was by a blending of the two, Pagan with Non-Pagan.
In the late Roman world a paganus was a ‘rustic’, and the word's shift to mean ‘non-Christian’ reflects a period when Christianity had spread among the upper classes and within towns, but not to the rural peasantry.
Pagans need not share any common ground. The Romans had no trouble in assimilating the deities of either group with their own pantheon.
Christianity saw off the major pantheons of gods and goddesses without too much difficulty and major festivals of the pagan year such as midwinter could be replaced with appropriate Christian celebrations like Christmas.
What was harder to eradicate was the attachment to local holy places, though healing springs, for instance, were sometimes absorbed into local saints' cults.
The term “pagan” is a Christian adaptation of the “gentile” of Judaism, and as such has an inherent Abrahamic bias, and pejorative connotations among Western monotheists, comparable to heathen, and infidel also known as kafir and mushrik in Islam.
Constitutionalist,
Do you understand that the author of this thread believes that the New Testament scripture writers are not authentic?
I ask because you seem to be addressing a whole new issue of how the Christian religion was hijacked by heretics.
Do you understand why attacking a false doctrine is not a bad thing?
I don't care what he believes in who founded what.
Yeshua did not the founder of Christianity.
Paul nor any of the others were founders of Christianity.
Yeshua preached the message as was preached from the beginning, as did the Apostles.
But the word “Christ,” “Christian,” was not a belief until Constantine cooridinated his little meeting to diefy the Messiah.
The original Jews who followed the Messiah were not Christians, Yeshua was not a Christian, the Apostles were not Christians, Gentiles are not Christians. Christians are born out of a Greco-Roman theology.
CT…….Good point , Greco-Roman teaching are every where in “Christian” thinking , From the Sunday worship, to Easter , Christmas , multiplicity of GOD'S preexistences of demigods and man gods coming to earth and taking on Human forms. , All of these tie in with Pagan teachings and practices. I think people fail to see the degree of these false influences in “Christian” teachings are. Where it says the whole world lies in deception that may be far more true the most think.
IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Constitutionalist wrote:
Quote Yeshua did not the founder of Christianity.
I do not consider Christianity a separate religion from Judaism. I would also conclude that Judaism is not really a good name for the Jewish religion since Judah is but one of 12 Tribes. Still I use both labels as the are commonly accepted. The true Christian religion is the same as the true Jewish religion. The question then becomes how to handle the multitude of Jewish, Christian, and Muslim heretics. I believe Jesus referred to them all as false prophets.
Constitutionalist wrote:
Quote Yeshua preached the message as was preached from the beginning, as did the Apostles.
I agree! The problem he had with the Pharisees and the Sadducees is his interpretation of the Law. His interpretation unlike theirs was consistent with the word of God. I read some of the words of James this morning rebuking those who would judge the Law.
James 4:11-12(NIV) reads:
Quote Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
Constitutionalist wrote:
Quote But the word “Christ,” “Christian,” was not a belief until Constantine coordinated his little meeting to dietfy the Messiah.
I disagree because it is a word that is in the Greek manuscripts, some of which are dated previous to the time of Constantine.
You may also be wronging Constantine though he certainly pandered to special interests that seemed on doing just what you accuse him of doing. He was probably only working to keep the Empire together.
200 C.E: Chester Beatty biblical papyri.
200-250 C.E: Manuscript of the four canonical Gospels and the book of Acts.
Early to middle third century C.E: Nomina sacra, The Staurogram, The Codex, Oxyrhynchus papyri
Late second century or early third century C.E: Bodmer collectionAll generated under Greco-Roman rule.
New Testament Language, Literature and Theology and Directs the Centre for the Study of Christian Origins, University of Edinburgh.
Text and Artifact in the Religions of Mediterranean Antiquity: Essays in Honour of Peter Richardson, ed. S. G. Wilson and M. Desjardins
Erich Dinkler, “Älteste Christliche Denkmäler,” Signum Crucis
Art, Archaeology and Architecture of Early Christianity, ed. P. C. Finney
Encyclopedia of Early Christianity, ed. Everett Ferguson
E. W. Handley, U. Wartenberg et al (eds.), The Oxyrhynchus Papyri, Volume LXIV (London: Egypt Exploration Society, 1997); M. W. Haslan, A. Jones, F. Maltomini (eds.), The Oxyrhynchus Papyri, Volume LXV (London: Egypt Exploration Society, 1998)
The Earliest Gospels, The Origins and Transmission of the Earliest Christian Gospels. The Contribution of the Chester Beatty Gospel Codex P45, ed. by Charles Horton (JSNTSup 258; London: T&T Clark International, 2004.)
Studies in the Theory and Method of New Testament Textual Criticism, E. J. Epp and G. D. Fee (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1993), 274-97
The Text of the New Testament in Contemporary Research: Essays on the Status Quaestionis, ed. B. D. Ehrman and M. Holmes
Colin Roberts' Manuscript, Society and Belief in Early Christian Egypt
Here is something to study:
What happened to the original Priesthood under Greco-Roman rule?
How were Jews educated under Greco-Roman rule?
What was the Sanhedrin relationship to the Greco-Roman Empire compared to its own Nation? Dealing with Power, Prestege, and Citizenship under Greco-Roman rule.
Then maybe you will see how this all eventually comes to lay at Emperor Constantines feet, and how he was the first organizer of the 'Christian” Church.
You can praise the Sun Worshipper all you want. But he is still guilty of organizing and bastardizing the Christian Religion.
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