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Quote (Gene @ Oct. 12 2009,14:18) TO ALL…….think it not strange concerning this fiery trail that has tried you, as if some strange thing has happened unto you. and again “for every man work shall be tried , and if He has built with gold , silver, or precious stones , he shall recieve a reward, but if he has built with straw, hay or stubble, He will suffer loss, because the fire will disclose it, but he himself shall be saved yet as by or (through) Fire. The fire of God shall try (EVERY MAN WORK) None will escape the fire of GOD. God HIMSELF is the consuming FIRE, there is no Literal Lake of fire, it is symbolic of GOD'S intense JUDGMENT on ALL things even the earth it self. Fire is symbolic for purification, and that means getting rid of Wickedness. Through a purging process of intense Judgements. IMO gene
Gene If this would be true, what about what Melachi 4 tells us? Without a literal fire even if it is from God, it will have to be burned up. Otherwise can there be Ashes and stubbles?
Peace and Love IreneG ,
Seems odd that you would consider the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels more like a catholic purgatory cleanup for wicked men. [Mt25]Quote (Gene @ Oct. 11 2009,19:18) TO ALL…….think it not strange concerning this fiery trail that has tried you, as if some strange thing has happened unto you. and again “for every man work shall be tried , and if He has built with gold , silver, or precious stones , he shall recieve a reward, but if he has built with straw, hay or stubble, He will suffer loss, because the fire will disclose it, but he himself shall be saved yet as by or (through) Fire. The fire of God shall try (EVERY MAN WORK) None will escape the fire of GOD. God HIMSELF is the consuming FIRE, there is no Literal Lake of fire, it is symbolic of GOD'S intense JUDGMENT on ALL things even the earth it self. Fire is symbolic for purification, and that means getting rid of Wickedness. Through a purging process of intense Judgements. IMO gene
Gene,
Is this the one your talking about? If it is I totally agree, Gods righteousness is the consuming fire, I believe the vision John saw on the Isle of Patmos was when the fire proceeded from God was so immense, that every where John looked he saw fire. It is like standing on the shore and everywhere you look is water, but in this case it is fire, the heavens and earth is burning. And when its done there will only be a sea of glass left that the new Jerusalem will rest on.All that is wicked will be destroyed at this time, and death and the grave will be literally destroyed because all that will be left is the righteous.
Quote (georg @ Oct. 11 2009,20:42) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 12 2009,14:18) TO ALL…….think it not strange concerning this fiery trail that has tried you, as if some strange thing has happened unto you. and again “for every man work shall be tried , and if He has built with gold , silver, or precious stones , he shall recieve a reward, but if he has built with straw, hay or stubble, He will suffer loss, because the fire will disclose it, but he himself shall be saved yet as by or (through) Fire. The fire of God shall try (EVERY MAN WORK) None will escape the fire of GOD. God HIMSELF is the consuming FIRE, there is no Literal Lake of fire, it is symbolic of GOD'S intense JUDGMENT on ALL things even the earth it self. Fire is symbolic for purification, and that means getting rid of Wickedness. Through a purging process of intense Judgements. IMO gene
Gene If this would be true, what about what Melachi 4 tells us? Without a literal fire even if it is from God, it will have to be burned up. Otherwise can there be Ashes and stubbles?
Peace and Love Irene
Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: [there shall] not [be] a coal to warm at[/B][/U], [nor] fire to sit before it. Isaiah 47:14Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. Joel 2:5
I would not look at stubble and ash as substance, I would look at the burning of that day to be complete in that all wickedness and sin will be erased, blotted out, winked out, non existance, if it be by a flame then it will be a complete devouring. Gods Righteous fire is more than millions of suns. Complete and without taint.
The only reason why anything can withstand this totally pure energy of righteousness is because he wills it, otherwise it would vanish at his presence. He holds it together.
Why do you think Mount Sinai survived when he was upon it? Only because he willed it, otherwise it would not have survived.
Meditate on this.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 12 2009,18:55) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 11 2009,19:18) TO ALL…….think it not strange concerning this fiery trail that has tried you, as if some strange thing has happened unto you. and again “for every man work shall be tried , and if He has built with gold , silver, or precious stones , he shall recieve a reward, but if he has built with straw, hay or stubble, He will suffer loss, because the fire will disclose it, but he himself shall be saved yet as by or (through) Fire. The fire of God shall try (EVERY MAN WORK) None will escape the fire of GOD. God HIMSELF is the consuming FIRE, there is no Literal Lake of fire, it is symbolic of GOD'S intense JUDGMENT on ALL things even the earth it self. Fire is symbolic for purification, and that means getting rid of Wickedness. Through a purging process of intense Judgements. IMO gene
Gene,
Is this the one your talking about? If it is I totally agree, Gods righteousness is the consuming fire, I believe the vision John saw on the Isle of Patmos was when the fire proceeded from God was so immense, that every where John looked he saw fire. It is like standing on the shore and everywhere you look is water, but in this case it is fire, the heavens and earth is burning. And when its done there will only be a sea of glass left that the new Jerusalem will rest on.All that is wicked will be destroyed at this time, and death and the grave will be literally destroyed because all that will be left is the righteous.
CT……….That is the way i see it also. The word Fire is INTENSE JUDGMENTS of GOD which will try EVERYTHING that exists.peace and love to you and your……………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 13 2009,03:25) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 12 2009,18:55) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 11 2009,19:18) TO ALL…….think it not strange concerning this fiery trail that has tried you, as if some strange thing has happened unto you. and again “for every man work shall be tried , and if He has built with gold , silver, or precious stones , he shall recieve a reward, but if he has built with straw, hay or stubble, He will suffer loss, because the fire will disclose it, but he himself shall be saved yet as by or (through) Fire. The fire of God shall try (EVERY MAN WORK) None will escape the fire of GOD. God HIMSELF is the consuming FIRE, there is no Literal Lake of fire, it is symbolic of GOD'S intense JUDGMENT on ALL things even the earth it self. Fire is symbolic for purification, and that means getting rid of Wickedness. Through a purging process of intense Judgements. IMO gene
Gene,
Is this the one your talking about? If it is I totally agree, Gods righteousness is the consuming fire, I believe the vision John saw on the Isle of Patmos was when the fire proceeded from God was so immense, that every where John looked he saw fire. It is like standing on the shore and everywhere you look is water, but in this case it is fire, the heavens and earth is burning. And when its done there will only be a sea of glass left that the new Jerusalem will rest on.All that is wicked will be destroyed at this time, and death and the grave will be literally destroyed because all that will be left is the righteous.
CT……….That is the way i see it also. The word Fire is INTENSE JUDGMENTS of GOD which will try EVERYTHING that exists.peace and love to you and your……………..gene
Gene! In Malachi it says that the Saints will walk on the ashes and stubble of the wicked. Also the Anti-Christ and Satan, wll go there. Satan being the last to be trown into that Fire. Is that how God is going to start the Fire of the Lake of Fire, is there a Scripture that says that? I always like to prove all, before I will beleve in something lke that. So I would appreciate if you would show us that Scripture, please.
Peace and Love IreneG,
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.[Rom12]
But you teach there is no condemnation for all men, just a little catholic purgatory toasting.NicK……..No i don't beieve in purgatory, i believe when a person is dead He is dead, His thought parish. No purgatory, with that said, I will ask you a question , Did Jesus die for the sins of the (WHOLE) World as John said or for just a picky few as you believe. Did GOD say that He concluded (ALL) under sin, that He might have mercy on (ALL) or just a picky few. Your confusing the word condemnation for Judgements , big difference it the meanings of those two words. All mans works will come under judgments, but that is a good thing not a bad one as you suppose. Every mans work Shall be tried for the fire (intense judgments of GOD) shall (TRY) it. That is not JUST Christians as you suppose it means but (EVERY) Mans Works that he has done in His Life and will take place after he is resurrected without exception. Those who are now in Christ Jesus will not come into condemnation but have justification for life (NOW) but don't think they are not judged even now are they Judged, the rest later. Don't sell GOD'S salvation short Nick what he has done for us he can also do for others, but everyone in his order. Just as it says For GOD is the savior of (ALL) men, if there is eternal condemnation of life , let's let GOD do it not US. Be like Jesus who said He condemned no one. IMO
peace and love…………….gene
G,
You confuse the testing by the fire of suffering of the saints with the final expression of the wrath of God against the goats.Nick………The goats and Sheep are the (NATIONS) that Jesus will separate upon His return. Stop altering the text by implying it is individual persons. He is Showing How some Nation respond to the needs of the other Nations, it can be applied to individuals also but this passage is dealing with (NATIONS) Not individuals. Another thing it is not the (FINAL) anything, it takes place when Jesus returns and who ever dies will be resurected at the second resurrection. IMO
gene
These nations will be brought into accountability before Jesus and Judgment will be rendered on them (as) a whole. Why do you keep leaving out the DIVIDING OF THE (NATIONS), AS A SHEPPARD DIVIDES THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS. This is just grouping of the nations as Nations that Had mercy on other Nations as the US has done many times by sending aid and help to poorer nations as well as other Nation also have done. Jesus is coming to establish world rule and government, not individual Judgements.
Transposing Nations for individuals is not the intent of the text, or it would have just said individual people. Your forcing the text Nick. IMO
gene
G,
Assembling the nations is assembling all who are of the world.
But their nationhood becomes irrelevant when they are divided into sheep and goats.
Then King Jesus judges mankind still outside of him according to their individual actions towards His brothers.I think that the word “hell” is used in at least two different ways. The first describes the grave which is equivalent to a holding cell one stays in before going on trial and the second is the lake of burning fire which is only for those that are convicted in the trial.
Greek words translated to hell in scripture are:
geenna
tartaroō
I believe those translated from “geena” should be translated to a place of destruction such as a trash incinerator.
While those translated from “tartaroō” would be more consistent with the old testament if translated “Sheol” or “Grave”.
I am curious if the Septuagint version of the Old Testament used either of these words and if so in what context.
To all! Like I said before, if there would not be a literal Lake of fire, then Malachi is not true. You can't have Ashes and stubble's, that the Saints are walking on, without a fire. Whether Gods starts it or not, that is not the question here. Gehenna is a hole in the gound.
IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 13 2009,13:11) To all! Like I said before, if there would not be a literal Lake of fire, then Malachi is not true. You can't have Ashes and stubble's, that the Saints are walking on, without a fire. Whether Gods starts it or not, that is not the question here. Gehenna is a hole in the gound.
Irene
Could you let me know what scripture in Malachi you are referring to as I believe it is one I have been searching for. Thank you.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 13 2009,18:18) Quote (georg @ Oct. 13 2009,13:11) To all! Like I said before, if there would not be a literal Lake of fire, then Malachi is not true. You can't have Ashes and stubble's, that the Saints are walking on, without a fire. Whether Gods starts it or not, that is not the question here. Gehenna is a hole in the gound.
Irene
Could you let me know what scripture in Malachi you are referring to as I believe it is one I have been searching for. Thank you.
Malachi4:1-3 'For behold,” the day is coming, Burning like an oven. And all the proud yes all who do wicked will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” says the LORD of hosts. ” That will leave them neither root or branch.
verse 2 But to you who fear My name, The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings; And you shall go out, and grow fat like stall fed calves.
verse 3 ” You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.
On that day that I do this,” Says the LORD of hosts.
Peace ad Love Irene
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