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When Jesus said that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law UNTIL heaven and earth pass
Matt 5:18
He said that 2000 years ago – I have been wondering was he talking of the physical heaven and earth or the Jewish heaven and earth and this is relating to the old covenant Jewish age and the new heavens and earth is the new covenant age (world)
Otherwise if it is the physical heaven and earth which has not passed we should be still keeping all of the law.
I have been reading this site http://www.scribd.com/doc/2152665/How-Heaven-and-Earth-Passed-Away
interesting information
I can see a relationship to preterism in the “this generation will not pass away before the passing of the heaven and earth in Matt 24:35
Hi MK,
The law apples only to those it was given to.Rom3
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:…We gentiles were never given the Law.
We were due to perish
Rom2
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;The law will not pass.
Will heaven and earth?
Rev21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.LUKE 16:17
“Indeed, IT IS EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for one particle of a letter of the Law to go unfulfilled.”PSALM 104:5
“He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.”ECCLESIASTES 1:4
“A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite.”PSALM 78:69
“And he began to build his sanctuary just like the heights, Like the earth that he has founded to time indefinite.”PSALM 119:90
“Your faithfulness is for generation after generation. You have solidly fixed the earth, that it may keep standing.”PSALM 96:10
“Say among the nations: “Jehovah himself has become king. The productive land also becomes firmly established so that it cannot be made to totter. He will plead the cause of the peoples in uprightness.””2 PETER 3:7
“But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the UNGODLY MEN.”If these texts (2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1) mean that the literal planet Earth is to be consumed by fire, then the literal heavens (the stars and other heavenly bodies) are also to be destroyed by fire. Such a literal view, however, conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, also Proverbs 2:21, 22. Furthermore, what effect would fire have on the already intensely hot sun and stars? So the term “earth” in the above-quoted texts must be understood in a different sense.
At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. Might that be the case at 2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1?
Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the globe itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is “discovered”; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disguise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction. That wicked society of humans is also “the first earth,” referred to at Revelation 21:1 (KJ).
Consistently, Jesus’ expression at Luke 21:33 (“heaven and earth will pass away, but . . . ”) must be understood in the light of the parallel statement at Luke 16:17 (“it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than . . . ”), both of which simply emphasize the impossibility of the situations presented.—See also Matthew 5:18.
Hi Meerkat:
As Christians we do keep the Law, the Ten Commandments, through the law of liberty which is the law of love.
Quote Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
Quote Mat 22:35 Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Nick,
Is your understanding of when there will be a new physical heaven and a new physical earth – will God destroy all the stars and solar systems that are currently in the heavens and create totally new stars and solar systems (physical heavens) along with a totally new physical earth – that has no sea – just a solid land mass?
The whole material, physical reality {poof} gone – and then recreated?
Quote (david @ Feb. 03 2009,16:19) LUKE 16:17
“Indeed, IT IS EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for one particle of a letter of the Law to go unfulfilled.”PSALM 104:5
“He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.”ECCLESIASTES 1:4
“A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite.”PSALM 78:69
“And he began to build his sanctuary just like the heights, Like the earth that he has founded to time indefinite.”PSALM 119:90
“Your faithfulness is for generation after generation. You have solidly fixed the earth, that it may keep standing.”PSALM 96:10
“Say among the nations: “Jehovah himself has become king. The productive land also becomes firmly established so that it cannot be made to totter. He will plead the cause of the peoples in uprightness.””2 PETER 3:7
“But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the UNGODLY MEN.”If these texts (2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1) mean that the literal planet Earth is to be consumed by fire, then the literal heavens (the stars and other heavenly bodies) are also to be destroyed by fire. Such a literal view, however, conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, also Proverbs 2:21, 22. Furthermore, what effect would fire have on the already intensely hot sun and stars? So the term “earth” in the above-quoted texts must be understood in a different sense.
At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. Might that be the case at 2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1?
Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the globe itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is “discovered”; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disguise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction. That wicked society of humans is also “the first earth,” referred to at Revelation 21:1 (KJ).
Consistently, Jesus’ expression at Luke 21:33 (“heaven and earth will pass away, but . . . ”) must be understood in the light of the parallel statement at Luke 16:17 (“it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than . . . ”), both of which simply emphasize the impossibility of the situations presented.—See also Matthew 5:18.
David,That is my understanding as well – that there are figures of speech and symbolism used.
In 2 Peter 3:7 when it talks about the “present” heaven and earth stored for fire and destruction of ungodly men – in other parts of scripture we are told the end of all things is “at hand” and that was 2000 years ago – I can not believe that at hand means 2000 years later – to me the destruction of the ungodly men were those that were persecuting the messengers of the gospel and the destruction of Jerusalem was central to this. As your say heaven and earth can be figurative language – could it be the rulers (heaven) and the earth (people) ??
Quote (meerkat @ Feb. 03 2009,14:31) Nick, Is your understanding of when there will be a new physical heaven and a new physical earth – will God destroy all the stars and solar systems that are currently in the heavens and create totally new stars and solar systems (physical heavens) along with a totally new physical earth – that has no sea – just a solid land mass?
The whole material, physical reality {poof} gone – and then recreated?
Hi MK,
No I think it is rather renovated.
Otherwise would a new earth be still called earth?Did the original earth shown in Genesis have seas or did they appear after the waters of the deep outflowed in the flood?
942767………There is a difference between the words (THE LAW) meaning the ten comandments and (LAW), its unfortunate the translators added the definite article (the) in front of Law in Galatians and Romans, if you look it up in a Greek concordance you will find the Definite Article (the) is not there. This changes the whole context of what Paul was saying and has caused much confusion. When we say Law by it self, we are talking about How law works , in other words law in a general sense , It always implies forced compliance, and uses the medium of FEAR to bring it about, That why Paul said by works of (LAW) no one is justified before GOD. Why because being forced to comply through fear never makes the Heart right. If Paul would have said by works of (THE LAW) that would have meant the ten commandments because the Definite Article would have referenced a specific group of Laws. Its unfortunate translators got that wrong look it up in a Greek concordance and you will see what i mean.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
I think that there were seas because there were rivers flowing – where would all that water go to if there were not seas.
Also in Gen 1:10 it says the dry land is earth and the gathering of the waters is sea.
Quote could it be the rulers (heaven) and the earth (people) ??
Yes, that is exactly what it could be.The description of the dominion of the coming Messianic King as being “from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth” would apparently refer to the entire globe. (Ex 23:31; Zec 9:9, 10; compare Da 2:34, 35, 44, 45.)
So, the literal sea will continue to exist.
ISAIAH 57:20
““But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire.”When Rev 21:1 says; “the sea is no more” it is referring to the sea of mankind alienated from God.
At Revelation 17:1, 15 the “waters” on which Babylon the Great “sits” are said to mean “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.”
Daniel described four “beasts” that came up “out of the sea” and revealed these to be symbolic of political kings or kingdoms. (Da 7:2, 3, 17, 23)
Similarly, John spoke of a “wild beast ascending out of the sea,” that is, out of that vast portion of mankind that is estranged from God; and his mention, in symbolic language, of diadems and a throne again links the idea of a political organization with this beast out of “the sea.” (Re 13:1, 2)
Quote Did the original earth shown in Genesis have seas or did they appear after the waters of the deep outflowed in the flood? Interesting question. IT's my belief that much of the flood waters are still here. They cover most of the earth. But were there any seas before? I think so. (Ge 1:9, 10, 13; Ne 9:6; Ac 4:24; 14:15; Re 14:7)
Quote (david @ Feb. 03 2009,18:14) The description of the dominion of the coming Messianic King as being “from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth” would apparently refer to the entire globe. (Ex 23:31; Zec 9:9, 10; compare Da 2:34, 35, 44, 45.) So, the literal sea will continue to exist.
ISAIAH 57:20
““But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire.”When Rev 21:1 says; “the sea is no more” it is referring to the sea of mankind alienated from God.
At Revelation 17:1, 15 the “waters” on which Babylon the Great “sits” are said to mean “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.”
Daniel described four “beasts” that came up “out of the sea” and revealed these to be symbolic of political kings or kingdoms. (Da 7:2, 3, 17, 23)
Similarly, John spoke of a “wild beast ascending out of the sea,” that is, out of that vast portion of mankind that is estranged from God; and his mention, in symbolic language, of diadems and a throne again links the idea of a political organization with this beast out of “the sea.” (Re 13:1, 2)
Hi david,
The earth will no remaining sea is only shown after the end of the millenial kingdom of Jesus Christ.[Rev21]Thence the kingdom is in the hands of the Father[1Cor15]
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