Halloween is coming up

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 30 2010,05:18)

Just looking forward to Thanksgiving…..Peace and Love Irene

Hi Irene,

Now that's one we can all get behind! I can't imagine it has pagan roots.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 30 2010,04:30)

If its make you a better person and strengthens the people around you…then I am all for it

Thanks. I'll try to remember that simple logic myself.

mike

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 30 2010,05:18)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 30 2010,04:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2010,13:50) Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 29 2010,07:11) If one of your brothers was offended and stumbling over your wearing a wedding ring…would you not wear one? Yes, I would not wear one.  But then again, I'm not married! DK: Quote What if he was offended or stumbling because you use the names of the months and days and seasons in your everyday speech…would you not use them? Absolutely.  Isn't that what scripture teaches? But I get your point.  Do you get mine that even though it is a personal judgement thing, certain things are more “directly” against God and scripture than others? What is worse – wearing a wedding ring or murdering someone in cold blood?  Which is more likely to cause a brother to stumble? I see you apparently like “Stewie”.  That is your judgement.  But even though I used to watch the show, and thought it was sometimes the most hillarious thing on T.V., I can't stomache it anymore. When Stewie decyphered that he and Brian were in Europe because the cows said “Whazoo” like on his “Hear and Say” toy, I laughed for a month! But then the most of the show is so worldly and they make light of and fun of God and Jesus SOOOO much, I had to turn it off.  Really!  God passing gas into a lighter caused the “Big Bang”?  That to me passes for blasphemy. Anyway, that's just one of the many ways God is helping me to change who I was.  There are too many to count.  But obviously one of the ways is not wanting to celebrate Halloween, because two years ago, I took my little boy trick-or-treating.  And this will be the second year that I won't. peace and love, mike Fair enough. I get your point about things being more directly against GOD..although I do not agree. I think the bible spells out things that are “directly against god” i.e. murder, fornication, idolatry etc…I disagree that halloween is more against god than any other tradition that has pagan roots…but thats neither here nor there… If its make you a better person and strengthens the people around you…then I am all for it Halloween and Wedding Rings is something else.  At Halloween they dress up in Ghosts, Devils, etc. That is what is all about the Devil. And go out at night, and scare each other.  Is that something nice?   While a wedding ring is something that two married people give each other,  at their once in a life time occasion…..At one time the Church we attended did not believe in wearing lipstick, which too is so ridiculous……Now what I say when someone puts so much Makeup on that they look like a clown, that I object to…. Christmas when Christ was not even born on the Dec. 25 and Easter with eggs on the Altar….that too I object to….. Its the time of the year, I don't like.  Just looking forward to Thanksgiving…..Peace and Love Irene

Doesn't change the fact that its a conscience matter. At the end of the day your NOT celebrating halloween does not make you any more righteous or holy than someone who does celebrate it.

If you think it does, then I will make sure I tell your fellow brothers to make sure they do not “thresh any grain on the sabbath” around you. Also, I will be sure to tell them that if on the sabbath one of their animals happens to fall into a pit, that they make sure not to rescue it for fear of violating the “Law”.

I use these examples because at the core, your rationale is no different than the one the Pharisees used on Jesus.

Again,

Mercy> Sacrifice

Also, I just want you to remember that your OPINION on halloween (because that is all it is, as the bible leaves these things to ones conscience because they are free under the law of love and faith) is just that an opinion. We have to learn to separate the “personal' and the “scriptural”. And yes, I know the scriptures ARE personal. But i think you know what i mean

[dirtyknections]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,09:56)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 30 2010,05:18) Just looking forward to Thanksgiving…..Peace and Love Irene Hi Irene, Now that's one we can all get behind!  I can't imagine it has pagan roots. peace and love, mike

Ask a native american how they feel about thanksgiving

I guarantee that's not one they can “get behind”

[mikeboll64]

I don't think it was the Thanksgiving part, but what we did after.  It was very shameful.

But here's a scripture for you DK.

9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

Aren't those the exact kind of people Halloween glorifies?

mike

[mikeangel]

“Christmas when Christ was not even born on the Dec. 25 and Easter with eggs on the Altar….that too I object to…..”

Irene,

I don't know what catholic church you went too, but I have never in 47 years seen eggs on the altar. I see your point, and you are correct about those being pagan rituals, but this is simply not widely observed at least. You might have been going to a particular church that had a “kook” as a rector. I do not believe in the Easter bunny thing or easter egg hunts. I got no problem with Christmas I didn't start it, those who did will answer for it, but alot of love and sharing goes on then, and my concience does not convict me. I got no problem with Valentines Day. I do not dress up for holloween, but those who do aren't any less ignorant then those who put out easter baskets or lie to their kids about Satan claus I mean Santa claus. Also people who watch football or racing jumping up and down and screaming but are lukewarm at best about their faith. Peace

[princess of the king]

Quote

Also people who watch football or racing jumping up and down and screaming but are lukewarm at best about their faith. Peace

If you speak of a professional level, however a organization for the children is a place to show what you really are made of.

Such areas in our life that are missed for ones that think every person we meet are not loved.

What a shame, it is like being selfish with what is required. Strange teachings.

[princess of the king]

Quote

who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

Christians do not do this, take the cross for instance, is it not a symbol/icon, what of the warnings regarding the fig tree, war, end times, these can not be considered omens?

It is also noted in text of other things that are destisable, by my understanding pork is still profitable, and sabbath is non exisitant.

Paul really has a lot to be accounted for, no wonder he wanted kepha out the picture.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 31 2010,22:36)

Christians do not do this, take the cross for instance, is it not a symbol/icon, what of the warnings regarding the fig tree, war, end times, these can not be considered omens? It is also noted in text of other things that are destisable, by my understanding pork is still profitable, and sabbath is non exisitant. Paul really has a lot to be accounted for, no wonder he wanted kepha out the picture.

The Greek word generally translated as “cross” means “stake” or “tree”. It is my understanding that it never applies to two peices of wood put together to form a “T”.

And Jesus made clear that the Sabbath came into existence for the benefit of man, so they could have a “day off”……..not the other way around.

And it was Peter, not Paul, who had the dream that convinced him everything was good to use as food.

peace and love,
mike

[Baker]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 30 2010,15:27)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 30 2010,05:18) Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 30 2010,04:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2010,13:50) Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 29 2010,07:11) If one of your brothers was offended and stumbling over your wearing a wedding ring…would you not wear one? Yes, I would not wear one.  But then again, I'm not married! DK: Quote What if he was offended or stumbling because you use the names of the months and days and seasons in your everyday speech…would you not use them? Absolutely.  Isn't that what scripture teaches? But I get your point.  Do you get mine that even though it is a personal judgement thing, certain things are more “directly” against God and scripture than others? What is worse – wearing a wedding ring or murdering someone in cold blood?  Which is more likely to cause a brother to stumble? I see you apparently like “Stewie”.  That is your judgement.  But even though I used to watch the show, and thought it was sometimes the most hillarious thing on T.V., I can't stomache it anymore. When Stewie decyphered that he and Brian were in Europe because the cows said “Whazoo” like on his “Hear and Say” toy, I laughed for a month! But then the most of the show is so worldly and they make light of and fun of God and Jesus SOOOO much, I had to turn it off.  Really!  God passing gas into a lighter caused the “Big Bang”?  That to me passes for blasphemy. Anyway, that's just one of the many ways God is helping me to change who I was.  There are too many to count.  But obviously one of the ways is not wanting to celebrate Halloween, because two years ago, I took my little boy trick-or-treating.  And this will be the second year that I won't. peace and love, mike Fair enough. I get your point about things being more directly against GOD..although I do not agree. I think the bible spells out things that are “directly against god” i.e. murder, fornication, idolatry etc…I disagree that halloween is more against god than any other tradition that has pagan roots…but thats neither here nor there… If its make you a better person and strengthens the people around you…then I am all for it Halloween and Wedding Rings is something else.  At Halloween they dress up in Ghosts, Devils, etc. That is what is all about the Devil. And go out at night, and scare each other.  Is that something nice?   While a wedding ring is something that two married people give each other,  at their once in a life time occasion…..At one time the Church we attended did not believe in wearing lipstick, which too is so ridiculous……Now what I say when someone puts so much Makeup on that they look like a clown, that I object to…. Christmas when Christ was not even born on the Dec. 25 and Easter with eggs on the Altar….that too I object to….. Its the time of the year, I don't like.  Just looking forward to Thanksgiving…..Peace and Love Irene Doesn't change the fact that its a conscience matter. At the end of the day your NOT celebrating halloween  does not make you any more righteous or holy than someone who does celebrate it. If you think it does, then I will make sure I tell your fellow brothers to make sure they do not “thresh any grain on the sabbath” around you. Also, I will be sure to tell them that if on the sabbath one of their animals happens to fall into a pit, that they make sure not to rescue it for fear of violating the “Law”. I use these examples because at the core, your rationale is no different than the one the Pharisees used on Jesus. Again, Mercy> Sacrifice Also, I just want you to remember that your OPINION on halloween (because that is all it is, as the bible leaves these things to ones conscience because they are free under the law of love and faith) is just that an opinion. We have to learn to separate the “personal' and the “scriptural”. And yes, I know the scriptures ARE personal. But i think you know what i mean

Sorry, it is a physical act that who dresses up and partakes in the ritual of Satan…..It has nothing to do with God…..Our Children went trick and treat, i don;t judge them or anyone else for that matter. That however does not make it a Godly act to do……And saying what I believe, does not judge any body……To go to the extreme and say that now all that is being said about what the pagans did, is ridiculous. That is what the Phareesees did….Halloween is a night for Satan…..and not for God. While Wedding day the couple promises before God to love and honor and obey….. That is much different then Halloween….Are you married? Does your Wife wear a Wedding Band?
Peace and Love Irene

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 01 2010,13:14)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 30 2010,15:27) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 30 2010,05:18) Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 30 2010,04:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2010,13:50) Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 29 2010,07:11) If one of your brothers was offended and stumbling over your wearing a wedding ring…would you not wear one? Yes, I would not wear one.  But then again, I'm not married! DK: Quote What if he was offended or stumbling because you use the names of the months and days and seasons in your everyday speech…would you not use them? Absolutely.  Isn't that what scripture teaches? But I get your point.  Do you get mine that even though it is a personal judgement thing, certain things are more “directly” against God and scripture than others? What is worse – wearing a wedding ring or murdering someone in cold blood?  Which is more likely to cause a brother to stumble? I see you apparently like “Stewie”.  That is your judgement.  But even though I used to watch the show, and thought it was sometimes the most hillarious thing on T.V., I can't stomache it anymore. When Stewie decyphered that he and Brian were in Europe because the cows said “Whazoo” like on his “Hear and Say” toy, I laughed for a month! But then the most of the show is so worldly and they make light of and fun of God and Jesus SOOOO much, I had to turn it off.  Really!  God passing gas into a lighter caused the “Big Bang”?  That to me passes for blasphemy. Anyway, that's just one of the many ways God is helping me to change who I was.  There are too many to count.  But obviously one of the ways is not wanting to celebrate Halloween, because two years ago, I took my little boy trick-or-treating.  And this will be the second year that I won't. peace and love, mike Fair enough. I get your point about things being more directly against GOD..although I do not agree. I think the bible spells out things that are “directly against god” i.e. murder, fornication, idolatry etc…I disagree that halloween is more against god than any other tradition that has pagan roots…but thats neither here nor there… If its make you a better person and strengthens the people around you…then I am all for it Halloween and Wedding Rings is something else.  At Halloween they dress up in Ghosts, Devils, etc. That is what is all about the Devil. And go out at night, and scare each other.  Is that something nice?   While a wedding ring is something that two married people give each other,  at their once in a life time occasion…..At one time the Church we attended did not believe in wearing lipstick, which too is so ridiculous……Now what I say when someone puts so much Makeup on that they look like a clown, that I object to…. Christmas when Christ was not even born on the Dec. 25 and Easter with eggs on the Altar….that too I object to….. Its the time of the year, I don't like.  Just looking forward to Thanksgiving…..Peace and Love Irene Doesn't change the fact that its a conscience matter. At the end of the day your NOT celebrating halloween  does not make you any more righteous or holy than someone who does celebrate it. If you think it does, then I will make sure I tell your fellow brothers to make sure they do not “thresh any grain on the sabbath” around you. Also, I will be sure to tell them that if on the sabbath one of their animals happens to fall into a pit, that they make sure not to rescue it for fear of violating the “Law”. I use these examples because at the core, your rationale is no different than the one the Pharisees used on Jesus. Again, Mercy> Sacrifice Also, I just want you to remember that your OPINION on halloween (because that is all it is, as the bible leaves these things to ones conscience because they are free under the law of love and faith) is just that an opinion. We have to learn to separate the “personal' and the “scriptural”. And yes, I know the scriptures ARE personal. But i think you know what i mean Sorry, it is a physical act that who dresses up and partakes in the ritual of Satan…..It has nothing to do with God…..Our Children went trick and treat, i don;t judge them or anyone else for that matter.  That however does not make it a Godly act to do……And saying what I believe, does not judge any body……To go to the extreme and say that now all that is being said about what the pagans did, is ridiculous.  That is what the Phareesees did….Halloween is a night for Satan…..and not for God.  While  Wedding day the couple promises before God to love and honor and obey….. That is much different then Halloween….Are you married?  Does your Wife wear a Wedding Band?   Peace and Love Irene

What ever makes you feel better at night

[david]

I found this very simple explanation of what halloween's origins are in the “simple” wikipedia:

“Origins

The word Halloween is from Hallowe'en. This is a contraction of All Hallow's Eve. All Hallow's Eve is the day before the Catholic holiday All Saints holy day. All Saints holy day was once called All Hallows. This was short for All Hallowed Souls. Hallowed means holy.

This holiday All Saints holy day was made by Christian missionaries. It was the same day as a Pagan holiday. The missionaries came to areas where Pagans lived. They tried to make the Pagans believe in Christianity. So they made some Pagan holidays into Christian holidays.

The Pagan holiday that All Saints holy day replaced was the Day of the Dead. Many Wiccans and modern Pagans celebrate the Day of the Dead. This is a happy holiday (even though it says 'Dead'). It is the day that the souls of dead people come back to Earth. So in Pagan religions it is not about scary things. It is about being with (remembering) family or friends who have died.”
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

But the souls of dead people do not come back to life on that day.  It's a false religious teaching.  
The immortality of the soul is a false teaching, not in the Bible.

[rebellman]

You are also aware that Easter and Christmas are the same kind “fabricated” holidays? Easter covered up a pagan fertility rite (that's what the eggs and bunnies are about) and Christmas is not even close to the day “Jesus” was born, it was created by the Catholic Church to allow pagans to continue celabrating the Yule.

Something I didn't see in this discussion was something Paul says about Christian liberty (I hope I'm not going back over covered ground). Paul says, “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” And, “All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.” 1 Co 6:12, 10:23 (KJV) Paul goes on to say, “Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God…” 1 Co 10:25-32 (KJV).

We see by this that it is not just our bretheren that we must not offend, but all men, so “even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.” 1 Co 10:33 (KJV). So, we must be careful about participating in any pagan holiday lest we inadvertantly condone pagan rites by our indeifference, or are condemned for our liberty by those who consider such participation sin (like Jehovah's Witnesses). It may be a trite saying, but when in doubt try to remember to ask ourselves WWJD (What would Jesus do?).

Peace – out.

[seekingtruth]

rebellman,
While I agree with all that you've written, I struggle with one point. If we are to conform our activities to not offend another's faith, and with all the different “faiths” around, we would effectively be bound more than the law ever did. And what of those who are offended at the gospel, should we not present it out of fear of offending them?  

The best balance I was able to come up with was to do whatever my faith allows, while being ready to explain why my faith allows it, to any who may be offended. Our actions need to be controlled by our love for others, so don't flaunt our freedoms as an unnecessary offence, be willing to put an offending item aside in such a way that shows your love for the individual. In other words I do not have to agree with the offence and I should be clear of where I stand, but temper my actions for the sake of the other's conscience thus showing my love. But I'm still free to participate when not with that individual (and if he hears of it later than he should not offended as they knew where I stood but is encouraged that I had refrained while with them, out of love, not agreement).

I like a beer once and awhile but I would never have one around someone who came out of an alcoholic background.  I'm not being hypocritical, as I am not violating what I have told others I believe, but demonstrated my love by refraining.

Note that at times Jesus offended others with His actions but only out of love not His desire for anything. I.E. He ate with sinners out of love for them not a desire for a meal.

My opinion – Wm

[theodorej]

Quote (rebellman @ Oct. 22 2011,17:52)

You are also aware that Easter and Christmas are the same kind “fabricated” holidays? Easter covered up a pagan fertility rite (that's what the eggs and bunnies are about) and Christmas is not even close to the day “Jesus” was born, it was created by the Catholic Church to allow pagans to continue celabrating the Yule. Something I didn't see in this discussion was something Paul says about Christian liberty (I hope I'm not going back over covered ground). Paul says, “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” And, “All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.” 1 Co 6:12, 10:23 (KJV) Paul goes on to say, “Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God…” 1 Co 10:25-32 (KJV). We see by this that it is not just our bretheren that we must not offend, but all men, so “even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.” 1 Co 10:33 (KJV). So, we must be careful about participating in any pagan holiday lest we inadvertantly condone pagan rites by our indeifference, or are condemned for our liberty by those who consider such participation sin (like Jehovah's Witnesses). It may be a trite saying, but when in doubt try to remember to ask ourselves WWJD (What would Jesus do?). Peace – out.

Greetings Rebel …… Your point is well received however in the midst of all the scripture paroting and subsequent interpretation as to its meaning …. we must be mindfull of an age old adage that says…. “To thine own self be true”… Not withstanding any ones feelings we are obliged to adhere to the law and, that means to flee or not participate in any activity that we know is contrary to the law ….. regardless of any bodys' feelings….. Once again Paul is taken out of context… Paul makes many references to his human carnality and its inclination towards the things of the world,however,he consistantly reverts back to the fact that we all fall short and that we should not judge our fellow man whether he worships on the sabbath or eats things that are forbidden by law… Pauls' teachings are not intended for judgement but for example…

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