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Quote (georg @ Oct. 23 2009,15:25) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,14:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,08:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
Its through grace I can keep the law.
Sorry, but Galatians teach us differently
Galatians 5:4 ” You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
And in
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus
for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I know that you keep the Sabbath, however it was never for us Gentles. It was for the Jewish People
Exodus 31: 16-17
“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual Covenant.
verse 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever.
To Moses God gave the Ten Commandments in
Exodus 34:27-28
verse 28 So He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights, He neither ate bread or drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the WORDS OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMENTMENTS.We are under the New Covenant in
Luke 22:20…: This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.
In Math. 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law
verse 37 Jesus said to him:” You shall love the LORD God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your mind.”
verse 38 ” This is the first and great commandment.
verse 39 ” And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
verse 40 ” On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
If Jesus wanted us to keep the Sabbath, He would have said so. He was Jewish and He did keep the Sabbath however.
Also Jesus magnified the Law, on the Sermon on the Mount.
Paul writes about what we should do. Should we keep one day to the Lord, or the other. Some will keep one day, while another keeps all the same to the LORD.Since we are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit is in us and we worship God in Spirit and in Truth. IMO it is more profitable to keep all the days to the LORD.
Galatians also says if you want to keep the law of the Old Covenant, you should keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:4 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised , that he is a debtor to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5-6 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Simple put, we are under the Blood of Christ.
Also Gods Law of the New Covenant are written in our Hearts. To keep it out of Love and not of the Letter of the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law and made it Holy.
Peace and Love Irene
Amen Irene! Again we agree.thinker
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,14:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,08:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
Its through grace I can keep the law.
Your sentence is interesting to me.Grace came because we couldn't keep the law.
Con,
On the other hand, I think you please the LORD because you try to keep it….. You are trying to please him the best way you know how. Somehow that's got to count for something good, right?
Keep pressing on!Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2009,04:38) Con, On the other hand, I think you please the LORD because you try to keep it….. You are trying to please him the best way you know how. Somehow that's got to count for something good, right?
Keep pressing on!Love,
Mandy
No Mandy! He is trying to keep the Sabbath, but we are not under that covenant and it is not good for us, but for the Jewish People a must.
IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,05:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2009,04:38) Con, On the other hand, I think you please the LORD because you try to keep it….. You are trying to please him the best way you know how. Somehow that's got to count for something good, right?
Keep pressing on!Love,
Mandy
No Mandy! He is trying to keep the Sabbath, but we are not under that covenant and it is not good for us, but for the Jewish People a must.
Irene
The sabbath law has been abolished altogether even for the Jewish people. If it is still in effect then the Jews must stone those Jews who do not keep it. The stoning law was part of the sabbath law. If one element ceased then the whole law itself ceased. If one jot or tittle has passed away then ALL has been fulfilled.Again, if the sabbath is for today then Jews must stone Jews who don't keep the sabbath.
thinker
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2009,04:38) Con, On the other hand, I think you please the LORD because you try to keep it….. You are trying to please him the best way you know how. Somehow that's got to count for something good, right?
Keep pressing on!Love,
Mandy
Hi not 3,
Attempting to please God by jewish covenant keeping is not the way for gentiles. Without salvation in Jesus it remains even for them as filthy rags now. Works done in Christ are not according to our striving but are in the grace and power and leading of the Spirit which produces what is useful before God, good fruit.Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,06:55) Quote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,05:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2009,04:38) Con, On the other hand, I think you please the LORD because you try to keep it….. You are trying to please him the best way you know how. Somehow that's got to count for something good, right?
Keep pressing on!Love,
Mandy
No Mandy! He is trying to keep the Sabbath, but we are not under that covenant and it is not good for us, but for the Jewish People a must.
Irene
The sabbath law has been abolished altogether even for the Jewish people. If it is still in effect then the Jews must stone those Jews who do not keep it. The stoning law was part of the sabbath law. If one element ceased then the whole law itself ceased. If one jot or tittle has passed away then ALL has been fulfilled.Again, if the sabbath is for today then Jews must stone Jews who don't keep the sabbath.
thinker
thinker if you would know a Jew you would see, They are very strict in the Sabbath and unclean Meats. My Husband and I used to work for a jewish couple. They sold the Bakery to our Son. I was cleaning wheb the Rabbi came in. I was using a S.O.Pad, He raised his voice againest me and told me that I can't use it, bcause it is not kosher. I told him, I don't want to eat it. Every time you had to turn the Donut fryer on, He had to be there, why I have no idea. It is so funny to me.
But as far as the Sabbath is concerned they do still keep it.
No Jew will think that God has done away with it.
IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,07:05) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,06:55) Quote (georg @ Oct. 24 2009,05:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 24 2009,04:38) Con, On the other hand, I think you please the LORD because you try to keep it….. You are trying to please him the best way you know how. Somehow that's got to count for something good, right?
Keep pressing on!Love,
Mandy
No Mandy! He is trying to keep the Sabbath, but we are not under that covenant and it is not good for us, but for the Jewish People a must.
Irene
The sabbath law has been abolished altogether even for the Jewish people. If it is still in effect then the Jews must stone those Jews who do not keep it. The stoning law was part of the sabbath law. If one element ceased then the whole law itself ceased. If one jot or tittle has passed away then ALL has been fulfilled.Again, if the sabbath is for today then Jews must stone Jews who don't keep the sabbath.
thinker
thinker if you would know a Jew you would see, They are very strict in the Sabbath and unclean Meats. My Husband and I used to work for a jewish couple. They sold the Bakery to our Son. I was cleaning wheb the Rabbi came in. I was using a S.O.Pad, He raised his voice againest me and told me that I can't use it, bcause it is not kosher. I told him, I don't want to eat it. Every time you had to turn the Donut fryer on, He had to be there, why I have no idea. It is so funny to me.
But as far as the Sabbath is concerned they do still keep it.
No Jew will think that God has done away with it.
Irene
Irene,
Jews today keep the sabbath contrary to God's new covenant. Yet they do not keep it properly because they do not put anyone to death who does not keep the sabbath. Putting sabbath breakers to death part of keeping the ordinance (Ex 31:12-17).All the law had to be kept according to every jot and tittle.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,07:34) Irene,
Jews today keep the sabbath contrary to God's new covenant. Yet they do not keep it properly because they do not put anyone to death who does not keep the sabbath. Putting sabbath breakers to death part of keeping the ordinance (Ex 31:12-17).All the law had to be kept according to every jot and tittle.
thinker
Yes, if attaining salvation by your own means is the objective. However, I believe the “law”, as amplified by Yeshua, in Matthew 5-7 still applies to Christians today. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all with sin (“may it never be” – Romans 6:15), and we would have no frame of reference for righteous living.Matthew 5:18-19
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.I'm going for the “great” end of the spectrum…..
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 23 2009,15:13) Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2009,02:39) Quote Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Kathi,
Right. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with exchanging gifts. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with evergreen trees. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with lights. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with the date Dec 25th. Etc.
But, why do people on Dec 25th, bring an evergreen into their house and cover it with light and exchange gifts? Because, of ancient sun worship, because of ancient tree worship, and a festival that connected them all at the end of December where gifts were exchanged.
Does it not honor paganism to do the same things they were doing thousands of years ago, at the same time?
Nothing is wrong with a stone, as you say. But if an ancient people worshiped a particular stone on a particular day in a particular way…why would you adopt their practices? Would this not be inciting God to anger, by imitating things he saw and hated?
Hi David,
David I think you are great but I think that you need to go to your happy place and put on some happy music and enjoy the right hemisphere of your brain for a while. Your left hemisphere needs a night off. IMOKathi
David is right and the scriptures prove it:Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version)
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
And it is the same with Halloween you follow the ways of the Pagan why would you carve a pumpkin and put it in front of your house?
Folklore
Pumpkin craft for Halloween.An old Irish folk tale tells of Stingy Jack, a lazy yet shrewd farmer who uses a cross to trap the Devil. One story says that Jack tricked the Devil into climbing an apple tree, and once he was up there Jack quickly placed crosses around the trunk or carved a cross into the bark, so that the Devil couldn't get down. Another myth says that Jack put a key in the Devil's pocket while he was suspended upside-down.
Another version of the myth says that Jack was getting chased by some villagers from whom he had stolen, when he met the Devil, who claimed it was time for him to die. However, the thief stalled his death by tempting the Devil with a chance to bedevil the church-going villagers chasing him. Jack told the Devil to turn into a coin with which he would pay for the stolen goods (the Devil could take on any shape he wanted); later, when the coin/Devil disappeared, the Christian villagers would fight over who had stolen it. The Devil agreed to this plan. He turned himself into a silver coin and jumped into Jack's wallet, only to find himself next to a cross Jack had also picked up in the village. Jack had closed the wallet tight, and the cross stripped the Devil of his powers; and so he was trapped. In both myths, Jack only lets the Devil go when he agrees never to take his soul. After a while the thief died, as all living things do. Of course, his life had been too sinful for Jack to go to heaven; however, the Devil had promised not to take his soul, and so he was barred from hell as well. Jack now had nowhere to go. He asked how he would see where to go, as he had no light, and the Devil mockingly tossed him an ember that would never burn out from the flames of hell. Jack carved out one of his turnips (which was his favourite food), put the ember inside it, and began endlessly wandering the Earth for a resting place. He became known as “Jack of the Lantern”, or Jack-o'-Lantern.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 24 2009,08:31) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,07:34) Irene,
Jews today keep the sabbath contrary to God's new covenant. Yet they do not keep it properly because they do not put anyone to death who does not keep the sabbath. Putting sabbath breakers to death part of keeping the ordinance (Ex 31:12-17).All the law had to be kept according to every jot and tittle.
thinker
Yes, if attaining salvation by your own means is the objective. However, I believe the “law”, as amplified by Yeshua, in Matthew 5-7 still applies to Christians today. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all with sin (“may it never be” – Romans 6:15), and we would have no frame of reference for righteous living.Matthew 5:18-19
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.I'm going for the “great” end of the spectrum…..
Hi Is 1.18,
Indeed Jesus reinforced the continued relevance of the OT Law to the Jews as it had been given to them and remained in force for them till they entered the kingdom and came under the Law of love of the Spirit.Of course the gentiles were never given this Law and their only hope is the kingdom and the law of the Spirit.
Isa 1:18……….you have posted it right, the commandments have never and never will be done away with they are exactly how life both now and in the future will work , they are eternal commandments. that includes the (spiritual) Sabbath. It is the sign between GOD and his people both now and in the future, I am not talking about a Physical 24 hr day, but a Perpetual Sabbath (rest)that we who believe enter into with GOD . We are ceasing from (our) works and letting GOD work in and through Us. The Sabbath is the sign of the salvation process that is working in all of GOD true Childern. Looking through Physical eyes subvert the words of GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 24 2009,08:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 23 2009,15:13) Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2009,02:39) Quote Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Kathi,
Right. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with exchanging gifts. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with evergreen trees. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with lights. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with the date Dec 25th. Etc.
But, why do people on Dec 25th, bring an evergreen into their house and cover it with light and exchange gifts? Because, of ancient sun worship, because of ancient tree worship, and a festival that connected them all at the end of December where gifts were exchanged.
Does it not honor paganism to do the same things they were doing thousands of years ago, at the same time?
Nothing is wrong with a stone, as you say. But if an ancient people worshiped a particular stone on a particular day in a particular way…why would you adopt their practices? Would this not be inciting God to anger, by imitating things he saw and hated?
Hi David,
David I think you are great but I think that you need to go to your happy place and put on some happy music and enjoy the right hemisphere of your brain for a while. Your left hemisphere needs a night off. IMOKathi
David is right and the scriptures prove it:Jeremiah 10:2-4 (King James Version)
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
And it is the same with Halloween you follow the ways of the Pagan why would you carve a pumpkin and put it in front of your house?
Folklore
Pumpkin craft for Halloween.An old Irish folk tale tells of Stingy Jack, a lazy yet shrewd farmer who uses a cross to trap the Devil. One story says that Jack tricked the Devil into climbing an apple tree, and once he was up there Jack quickly placed crosses around the trunk or carved a cross into the bark, so that the Devil couldn't get down. Another myth says that Jack put a key in the Devil's pocket while he was suspended upside-down.
Another version of the myth says that Jack was getting chased by some villagers from whom he had stolen, when he met the Devil, who claimed it was time for him to die. However, the thief stalled his death by tempting the Devil with a chance to bedevil the church-going villagers chasing him. Jack told the Devil to turn into a coin with which he would pay for the stolen goods (the Devil could take on any shape he wanted); later, when the coin/Devil disappeared, the Christian villagers would fight over who had stolen it. The Devil agreed to this plan. He turned himself into a silver coin and jumped into Jack's wallet, only to find himself next to a cross Jack had also picked up in the village. Jack had closed the wallet tight, and the cross stripped the Devil of his powers; and so he was trapped. In both myths, Jack only lets the Devil go when he agrees never to take his soul. After a while the thief died, as all living things do. Of course, his life had been too sinful for Jack to go to heaven; however, the Devil had promised not to take his soul, and so he was barred from hell as well. Jack now had nowhere to go. He asked how he would see where to go, as he had no light, and the Devil mockingly tossed him an ember that would never burn out from the flames of hell. Jack carved out one of his turnips (which was his favourite food), put the ember inside it, and began endlessly wandering the Earth for a resting place. He became known as “Jack of the Lantern”, or Jack-o'-Lantern.
Hi Kathi.Kathi, unfortunately for many, discussing scripture and scripture related topics is my happy place. It relaxes me.
If your suggesting I'm thinking too much (by using the left side of my brain too much) I would argue that you are not using your left side enough. I love to paint. I have several hobbies, some of which are very creative.
But when it comes to what God wants from us, the Bible is the place to go. The scripture that Bod quoted, I have quoted before as well. How would you respond to it? In fact, how would you respond to anything I've said?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2009,13:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,12:35) Hi CON,
Belief in God has never saved anyone.
Awareness of the Creator is commonplace but listening to His Son is vital.
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;….and so many others.
Belief in God and his Christ doesn't save?
Mandy, it does save, because IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE SOMETHING, you will act on it.A bazillion people say they believe in Jesus. Yet, they don't know the first thing about the Jesus, or the Bible. They think he's a baby in a manger or dying on a cross, and say they love him, but haven't a clue who he is.
Yes, believing saves, BECAUSE it is always the first step towards actions.
Believing a deadly storm is coming saves many BECAUSE they get out of the way of the storm. But if you say you believe a deadly storm is coming and you don't get out of the way….you will die, and second, you never REALLY believed, did you?
Quote They believe but they do not love, Nick. The Lord knows whos are his……. There is no other requirement for salvation but to believe in the one he sent.
And if you believe in the one he sent, you will 'OBEY' his commands. Just as “love” is the law's fullfillment, because love covers everything, “belief” is similar. If you believe, you will act in a way that reflects that belief.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2009,03:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,04:06) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 22 2009,19:42) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,23:42) Thinker, WJ, refused to answer this question. I was wondering what your thoughts were? Which is more important. 1. Your freedom. Or, 2. your brother?
Brother!
David,
I have answered you and so has WJ. If the exercise of my liberty would cause my brother to stumble, that is, to act against his own conscience I would abstain from feasting in an idol's temple. If he is just trying to govern my own conscience then I will tell him to go fly a kite. You and Con would not act against your own consciences. So go fly a kite.Giving out a gospel tract and a piece of candy in Christ's name is a different matter. I would not hide my light under a bushel for a brother. In this situation I am to obey God rather than men.
“For if I seek to please men I cannot be the servant of Christ” (Paul).
thinker
JackWell said.
I have explained to David also. He chooses only to believe someone has answered him when you give him the answer he wants from you.
It is typical of JWs to force their man made doctrines on men.
You cannot even be a JW unless you totally accept their legalistic doctrines which bind men.
WJ
WJ, you are doing EXACTLY what I said you would do.1. You can't answer something. (It's multiple choice, easy to answer.)
2. Since you can't answer it, you answer SOMETHING else, hoping we won't notice. (But we do and we call you on it.)
3. Then, you repeatedly say you have answered it and then start saying random unrelated things that are supposed to help you case–something about me being a JW.You do this all the time when you can't answer questions.
What are we supposed to think, WJ? It was a multiple choice question. If you ever answered it directly, show us where? Or simpler, state the number to your answer? 1 or 2? My answer would be “2” for example. Your answer, which you must be ashamed of, is “1” or you would answer it.
WJ, please visit the fallacies thread.
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,03:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
I tend to think of it as:Syncretism verses non-syncretism
In other words: “Is it ok to mix things God hates, with things he doesn't, adopting them and calling them our own.”
I feel strongly scriptures speaks against this.
You can continue to shout “freedom” all you want.
I can do the same:
I am free to smoke Pot or cocaine because the Bible doesn't specifically say I can't. Yayyyy! And, it's fun, right. Harmless to others, sort of. Right?
I'm free to invent a holiday and call it “ouiji board day” in which everyone wears oiji boards on their heads and hands out candy (Or tracts) on this day. Yayyy harmless fun! “Freedom”! And everyone will wear a symbol of the devil, but since we're Christians, it's ok. Yay Freedom!That is what we call an ABUSE of freedom! Do we remember those scriptures? I'll go find them again.
DO BIBLE PRINCIPLES MEAN ANYTHING TO ANYONE?
Here are some of them. Do the scriptures matter? Or does only your freedom to do whatever you want matter?
“YOU were, of course, called for freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an inducement for the flesh, but through love slave for one another.” (Gal 5:13)
Your freedom was to be used in a serving way, slaving for others. Which brings me back to: Which is more important to some: 1. Your freedom or, 2. Your brother?
Freedom cannot be used as an excuse to do bad:
“Be as free people, and yet holding YOUR freedom, not as a blind for badness, but as slaves of God.” (1 Peter 2:16)
Can anyone out there other than CON at least acknowledge that these scriptures exist? Do they exist? Can we see them?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2009,04:02) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,03:29) BTW, I have said that I have been oblivious to the evangelistic opportunities that halloween presents and that you have made me aware of this. I have ordered some gospel tracts and I will have them this weekend. It is a no-brainer that one should seize the opportunity to evangelize people when they are coming right to the door.
Way to go, Thinker!And way to go, Keith. Because you're not only a hearer of the Word….you are a doer of the Word!!
Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.Press on towards the goal, brothers!! I'm cheering you on!!
Love,
Mandy
I have an Idea. Let's all go out tomorrow (Saturday) and talk to people about the Bible, about God's kingdom.I will. Can anyone else do this?
Or can you only do it on halloween?
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 22 2009,20:12) The way I see it is that much of what is called Christian is mere christian labels on a pagan heart. There is no doubt about that. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas day and Easter most likely wasn't the time that he died and rose again. If we believe such, then we only provide evidence for pagans to say to us that we believe in their religion and Jesus is just another name for a pagan messiah or the latest iteration of a long line of pagan messiahs that were born on Dec 25. That said, we who are of Christ and filled with the Spirit of God have a much greater one in us than he that is in the world.
If our heart is pure, then what we do is pure. No pagan holiday can take that away from us. Darkness cannot overcome light. Only the lack of light brings darkness.
Yes truth is very important, and being legalistic is not necessarily false, but it is not the best way.
There is a better way than the Law. In fact are we not warned to stay away from people who say “do not touch, do not taste”.
david, are you not saying to WJ “do not partake/touch/give away tracts on Halloween.
Are you not being legalistic and preaching that which is less than grace and against the freedom we have in Christ?
I do not judge WJ in this matter. I wouldn't dare. He is exercising his freedom in Christ. Sure, maybe he might of offended some with his freedom, but then the same could perhaps be said about you. You seem free to condemn those who exercise their freedom. Perhaps that too can weaken the faith of a weak person who may be listening in to the conversation? Perhaps someone listening right now who served/serves God on Halloween is now thinking that he might have sinned? We never really know the full impact our words can have on others.
I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace. We are given clear teaching as to what the difference is in the Book of Romans. Paul's conclusion is that anything that is not of faith is sin.
Therefore, whether it is Halloween or not, if it is not of faith then it is sin. Surely we can do works of faith on any day without being accused of sin?
“If our heart is pure, then what we do is pure.”Well, true, if our heart actually is pure. The problem with this, is, it's just as easy for me to SAY my heart is pure and then go on to quote Scriptures that speak against using Christian freedom in unrighteous ways. Everyone in the world almost, thinks their heart is pure. Everyone thinks that what they are doing is right. The vast majority are deceiving themselves. I find self-deception always more appetizing when served with chocolate or candy of some sort.
“No pagan holiday can take that [above quote] away from us. Darkness cannot overcome light.”
True, darkness will not overtake light. But Satan still exists. We still exist. Both good and bad exist. Should the good marry the bad? What fellowship does light have with darkness?
david, are you not saying to WJ “do not partake/touch/give away tracts on Halloween.
I've never said that, T8. I think you know that. I've said: Why connect the goodness of teaching people about the Bible with the badness of halloween? Why contaminate yourself with what God has said he hates–the giving of honor and undue respect to false gods or the ceremonies/practices of those who worshiped them?
Are you not being legalistic and preaching that which is less than grace and against the freedom we have in Christ?
No, I'm saying syncretism is wrong. Do you think it is right, T8?
Sure, maybe [WJ] might of offended some with his freedom, but then the same could perhaps be said about you. You seem free to condemn those who exercise their freedom. Perhaps that too can weaken the faith of a weak person who may be listening in to the conversation? Perhaps someone listening right now who served/serves God on Halloween is now thinking that he might have sinned?
We all sin, all the time. But if they were ignorant of their actions, not sinning willfully, this is of course not the same as knowing what halloween is, and still accepting it into your life. T8, a moment ago, you said, of course, truth is important. I say it is important, but to some, it comes after a long list of other things. I think it should be up there near the top.
You seem free to condemn those who exercise their freedom.
“exercising their freedom” or “abusing their freedom”? (see 2 posts above for some scriptures.)
Surely we can do works of faith on any day without being accused of sin?
But what if those “works of faith” strongly resemble, and mimic works of the flesh, and are based upon and chosen because of things that God has specifically clearly said he hates?
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