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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,09:14) Hi,
The god of this world has a very busy team at work masquerading at being the church.
Nick,
You bash our evangelism because we are trinitarians. Yet every time I ask you who led you to Christ you avoid answering me. It is clear that the evangelism of trinitarians bears fruit and it gets in your craw having to admit that you came to Christ through a trinitarian. Right?I don't bash David's evangelism and he don't bash mine. Your judgmental attitude is stench to the Lord!
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,09:14) Hi,
The god of this world has a very busy team at work masquerading at being the church.
So satan is a god and not Jesus?
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,09:42) Hi TT,
How is leading men away from God to a trinity god good fruit?
You are still evading my question Nick. Who led you to Christ?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2009,17:14) Hi,
The god of this world has a very busy team at work masquerading at being the church.
NHEnlighten us then? What is it that you are doing to reach the world with the Gospel?
When is the last time you told someone about Jesus or was instumental in leading someone to Jesus?
WJ
Quote Think about it. A lot of kids are going to come to my door. I don't even have to go out myself. It's a no-brainer! They will come to me and I can give them gospel literature. hey David wouldn't this be nice, have them knocking on your door, instead of you knocking on their's.
only said with love, your my favorite JW !!!!!
Quote Keith,
You must feel honored that you would be Mandy's ghost of honor.I hope my humor here goes off better than the “s” word remark.
thinker
still holding on to that one thinker, and congrats on your anniversary.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,08:36) Hi,
The church of the world does it's own thing.
What will they be busy doing when he returns?
They will be arguing with the Mod on Heaven.net.nz!
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,19:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,22:31) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,00:38) Quote God gives direction here to Gideon to pull down a pagan altar and use the Asherah as firewood to later use to burn an offering to the Lord on the new altar that Gideon was to build in the same place and this time it would be an altar for the Lord. So you see, the Lord did not concern Himself with the purpose of what lied there before. It didn't bother Him to build on the ruins of the pagan altar. So, I see this new altar to have, in a sense, the pagan roots since it is built over what used to be pagan. Follow along here…the new Godly altar replaced the pagan altar. I see Christmas as the Godly holiday replacing the pagan holiday (the Winter Solstice)…Easter also.
Or, maybe the message here is that Christmas, Easter, and halloween should be used as firewood?Lightenup, there is nothing intrinsically bad with the wood that they were worshipping, the sacred pole. It was just wood. So, they could burn it. But, understand that Jehovah hated false god worship. Burning the pole was not wrong. In fact, they were commanded to do this: (Ex 34:13; De 12:3)
But it would be different to take that thing that Jehovah hated and tie it around your neck and call every day on “Pole day” give people little poles in honor of the pole.
Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Regarding the “wood” and not hanging little logs around our neck I suppose you are alluding to crosses. I see the cross similar to the altar that God had Gideon build in His honor. On that altar, like the cross, a sacrifice was made. God never tells us to tear down our altars that were built in honor of Him does He? I believe that the altars built in the OT as a memorial of an event that involved the true God in someway were pleasing to Him. People didn't worship the altar, they worshiped at the altar. In a similar way, Christians don't wear a cross around their neck in order to worship the cross but to remember a significant event that involved God. I do think that this pleases God.
The Spirit brings joy to the cross because on it sin was defeated, satan brings death to the cross and he hates it. I think that the cross should be a symbol of Jesus's victory and bring great joy…nothing to despise at all.
God bless,
Kathi
I dont wear a cross. Its an immage.
Boy I guess you should have been there to inform those constructing Solomon's temple about their “image” problem.Or maybe you should have been there to talk to Moses about that image of the serpent he made.
What were those “images” above the mercy seat of the ark?
Hmmm….
Maybe the problem is bowing down and worshiping them….and not the images themsleves…
Hmmm….
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,14:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,09:14) Hi,
The god of this world has a very busy team at work masquerading at being the church.
So satan is a god and not Jesus?thinker
The word says Satan is the god of this world.In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Corinthians 4:4
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. John 12:31
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. John 14:30
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. John 16:11
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,09:14) Hi,
The god of this world has a very busy team at work masquerading at being the church.
Nick……..The blind will come to trick or treat and be given a tract and candy to lead them into another trick the TRINITY. I wonder which is worse.
So, I had a thought to look at the history of Purim. Maybe this can be of interest. Does anyone know if God detested this man instituted celebration? Look how they celebrated it…with costumes, giving gifts of food and drink, etc.
Purim (Hebrew: פורים (help·info) Pûrîm “lots”, related to Akkadian pūru) is a festival that commemorates the deliverance of the Jewish people of the ancient Persian Empire from Haman's plot to annihilate them, as recorded in the Biblical Book of Esther (Megillat Esther). According to the story, Haman cast lots to determine the day upon which to exterminate the Jews.
Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years), the day following the victory of the Jews over their enemies; as with all Jewish holidays, Purim begins at sundown on the previous secular day. In cities that were protected by a surrounding wall at the time of Joshua, including Shushan (Susa) and Jerusalem, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month, known as Shushan Purim. Purim is characterized by public recitation of the Book of Esther (keriat ha-megilla), giving mutual gifts of food and drink (mishloach manot), giving charity to the poor (mattanot la-evyonim), and a celebratory meal (se'udat Purim);[1] other customs include drinking wine, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration.
Jewish exiles from the Kingdom of Judah who had been living in the Babylonian captivity (6th Century BCE) found themselves under Persian rule after Babylonia was in turn conquered by the Persian Empire. According to the Book of Esther, Haman, royal vizier to King Ahasuerus planned to kill the Jews, but his plans were foiled by Esther, his queen. Mordecai, a palace official, cousin and foster parent of Esther, subsequently replaced Haman. The Jews were delivered from being the victims of an evil decree against them and were instead allowed by the King to destroy their enemies, and the day after the battle was designated as a day of feasting and rejoicing……Mordecai assumes a prominent position in Ahasuerus' court, and institutes an annual commemoration of the delivery of the Jewish people from annihilation.
Found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
I don't recall that the Lord is upset over this even though it was a man instituted annual celebration. Therefore, just because some celebration was instituted by man does not make it something that shouldn't be celebrated.
Go Esther!
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,23:35) So, I had a thought to look at the history of Purim. Maybe this can be of interest. Does anyone know if God detested this man instituted celebration? Look how they celebrated it…with costumes, giving gifts of food and drink, etc. Purim (Hebrew: פורים (help·info) Pûrîm “lots”, related to Akkadian pūru) is a festival that commemorates the deliverance of the Jewish people of the ancient Persian Empire from Haman's plot to annihilate them, as recorded in the Biblical Book of Esther (Megillat Esther). According to the story, Haman cast lots to determine the day upon which to exterminate the Jews.
Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years), the day following the victory of the Jews over their enemies; as with all Jewish holidays, Purim begins at sundown on the previous secular day. In cities that were protected by a surrounding wall at the time of Joshua, including Shushan (Susa) and Jerusalem, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month, known as Shushan Purim. Purim is characterized by public recitation of the Book of Esther (keriat ha-megilla), giving mutual gifts of food and drink (mishloach manot), giving charity to the poor (mattanot la-evyonim), and a celebratory meal (se'udat Purim);[1] other customs include drinking wine, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration.
Jewish exiles from the Kingdom of Judah who had been living in the Babylonian captivity (6th Century BCE) found themselves under Persian rule after Babylonia was in turn conquered by the Persian Empire. According to the Book of Esther, Haman, royal vizier to King Ahasuerus planned to kill the Jews, but his plans were foiled by Esther, his queen. Mordecai, a palace official, cousin and foster parent of Esther, subsequently replaced Haman. The Jews were delivered from being the victims of an evil decree against them and were instead allowed by the King to destroy their enemies, and the day after the battle was designated as a day of feasting and rejoicing……Mordecai assumes a prominent position in Ahasuerus' court, and institutes an annual commemoration of the delivery of the Jewish people from annihilation.
Found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
I don't recall that the Lord is upset over this even though it was a man instituted annual celebration. Therefore, just because some celebration was instituted by man does not make it something that shouldn't be celebrated.
Go Esther!
Kathi
“And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.“ Col 3:17Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 22 2009,16:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,23:35) So, I had a thought to look at the history of Purim. Maybe this can be of interest. Does anyone know if God detested this man instituted celebration? Look how they celebrated it…with costumes, giving gifts of food and drink, etc. Purim (Hebrew: פורים (help·info) Pûrîm “lots”, related to Akkadian pūru) is a festival that commemorates the deliverance of the Jewish people of the ancient Persian Empire from Haman's plot to annihilate them, as recorded in the Biblical Book of Esther (Megillat Esther). According to the story, Haman cast lots to determine the day upon which to exterminate the Jews.
Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years), the day following the victory of the Jews over their enemies; as with all Jewish holidays, Purim begins at sundown on the previous secular day. In cities that were protected by a surrounding wall at the time of Joshua, including Shushan (Susa) and Jerusalem, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month, known as Shushan Purim. Purim is characterized by public recitation of the Book of Esther (keriat ha-megilla), giving mutual gifts of food and drink (mishloach manot), giving charity to the poor (mattanot la-evyonim), and a celebratory meal (se'udat Purim);[1] other customs include drinking wine, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration.
Jewish exiles from the Kingdom of Judah who had been living in the Babylonian captivity (6th Century BCE) found themselves under Persian rule after Babylonia was in turn conquered by the Persian Empire. According to the Book of Esther, Haman, royal vizier to King Ahasuerus planned to kill the Jews, but his plans were foiled by Esther, his queen. Mordecai, a palace official, cousin and foster parent of Esther, subsequently replaced Haman. The Jews were delivered from being the victims of an evil decree against them and were instead allowed by the King to destroy their enemies, and the day after the battle was designated as a day of feasting and rejoicing……Mordecai assumes a prominent position in Ahasuerus' court, and institutes an annual commemoration of the delivery of the Jewish people from annihilation.
Found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
I don't recall that the Lord is upset over this even though it was a man instituted annual celebration. Therefore, just because some celebration was instituted by man does not make it something that shouldn't be celebrated.
Go Esther!
Kathi
“And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.“ Col 3:17
Yahoo!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 22 2009,16:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 22 2009,16:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,23:35) So, I had a thought to look at the history of Purim. Maybe this can be of interest. Does anyone know if God detested this man instituted celebration? Look how they celebrated it…with costumes, giving gifts of food and drink, etc. Purim (Hebrew: פורים (help·info) Pûrîm “lots”, related to Akkadian pūru) is a festival that commemorates the deliverance of the Jewish people of the ancient Persian Empire from Haman's plot to annihilate them, as recorded in the Biblical Book of Esther (Megillat Esther). According to the story, Haman cast lots to determine the day upon which to exterminate the Jews.
Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years), the day following the victory of the Jews over their enemies; as with all Jewish holidays, Purim begins at sundown on the previous secular day. In cities that were protected by a surrounding wall at the time of Joshua, including Shushan (Susa) and Jerusalem, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month, known as Shushan Purim. Purim is characterized by public recitation of the Book of Esther (keriat ha-megilla), giving mutual gifts of food and drink (mishloach manot), giving charity to the poor (mattanot la-evyonim), and a celebratory meal (se'udat Purim);[1] other customs include drinking wine, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration.
Jewish exiles from the Kingdom of Judah who had been living in the Babylonian captivity (6th Century BCE) found themselves under Persian rule after Babylonia was in turn conquered by the Persian Empire. According to the Book of Esther, Haman, royal vizier to King Ahasuerus planned to kill the Jews, but his plans were foiled by Esther, his queen. Mordecai, a palace official, cousin and foster parent of Esther, subsequently replaced Haman. The Jews were delivered from being the victims of an evil decree against them and were instead allowed by the King to destroy their enemies, and the day after the battle was designated as a day of feasting and rejoicing……Mordecai assumes a prominent position in Ahasuerus' court, and institutes an annual commemoration of the delivery of the Jewish people from annihilation.
Found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
I don't recall that the Lord is upset over this even though it was a man instituted annual celebration. Therefore, just because some celebration was instituted by man does not make it something that shouldn't be celebrated.
Go Esther!
Kathi
“And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.“ Col 3:17
Yahoo!
Google!Quote My mom used to tell me a story about a frog and a pot of water. She said that if you put a frog into a boiling pot of water (Halloween), it will jump out. But if you put a frog in to a cool pot of water (Christmas and Easter), you can gradually heat it up and cook the frog alive!! –Mandy?
How did your mom figure this out? Poor frogs…..
I think a lot of people think they have FREEDOM, when really, they are enslaved to the ways of the world. They are forced to compromise, and combine truth with lies, pure worship with old pagan ideas.
They have little choice but to partake in some way. They will make every effort to call it “their way” or say they are doing it on “their terms.” But what choice do they have? None, really. It is so weird to see them shackled to the world and it's holidays, while claiming they are free. In order to gain the world's acceptance, to appear normal to the world, normal to their friends and family, they must partake, in some way. So, they compromise. 'I will celebrate your holiday but in my way. Freedom!'Sure.
Paul spoke of the need of humankind to be set free from “enslavement to corruption.” (Ro 8:21)
To those who thought they had freedom just because they were Abraham’s fleshly descendants, Jesus pointed out that they were slaves of sin, and he said: “Therefore if the Son sets you free, you will be actually free.”—Joh 8:31-36; compare Ro 6:18, 22.
Saying you are free, does not mean you are free. Just like saying “Lord Lord” does not mean you are following the Lord. (Mat 7)
And, one can definitely mis-use their freedom in Christ:
“YOU were, of course, called for freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an inducement for the flesh, but through love slave for one another.” (Gal 5:13)
This freedom was to be used to “slave for one another.” So, this brings us back to how our freedom can affect others.
If eating stumbled a brother, Paul would never eat, he said. How serious a thing, this is, then.NOR ARE WE TO USE OUR FREEDOM AS AN EXCUSE FOR BADNESS:
“Be as free people, and yet holding YOUR freedom, not as a blind for badness, but as slaves of God.” (1 Peter 2:16)
The apostle Paul enjoyed the freedom he had gained through Christ but refrained from using his freedom to please himself or from exercising it to the point of hurting others.
In his letter to the congregation at Corinth, he showed that he would not injure another person’s conscience by doing something that he had the Scriptural freedom to do but that might be questioned by another with less knowledge, whose conscience might be offended by Paul’s acts.
And now, what some would call the flip side:
Paul cites as an example the eating of meat offered before an idol prior to being put in the market to be sold. Eating such meat might cause one with a weak conscience to criticize Paul’s proper freedom of action and thereby to act as a judge of Paul, which would be wrong. Therefore, Paul said: “Why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person’s conscience? If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks?” —1Co 10:23-30.Paul implies that while he would not want to do something by which the weak brother would be offended, thereby causing him to judge Paul, the weak one should likewise consider his brother, striving for maturity by getting more knowledge and training so that his conscience will not be easily offended, causing him to view others wrongly.—1Co 10:29, 30; Ro 14:10.
1 Cor 10:30, I'm certain many here would cling to that last verse. But understand that Paul was not doing anything wrong. He was eating meat which was made by God, but which was destined to be used for a wrong purpose. Yet, there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the meat, provided it was bled.
So, WJ, Thinker, if you bought pumpkins which were destined to be used for Halloween, and decided you didn't need all the pumpkins, I would have no problem taking that pumpkin off your hands and using it to make a sweet delicious pumpkin pie. I may even give you a piece.
While a pumpkin is used for the Halloween holiday, there is nothing intrinsically bad with it, just like the meat Paul spoke of. It was the PURPOSE that the meat and the pumpkin that it would be used for that was bad.
So, I don't think your repeated usage of those verses to apply, at all, in any way. What do you think?
david
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