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WJ……….You know as well as I that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, according to scripture. You believe that there is a (Satan ) being I do not believe that, I believe that Satan or (adversarial spirit is in Man and He is (NOT) a being, but an adversarial spirit (intellect)that is in Man. the same spirit (intellect) the works in the childern of disobedience. WJ you know as well as I you should (NOT) advance anything that is contrary to GOD the FATHER. I do not need to tell you that WJ. you already know it, if you use this opportunity to the advancement of God and his word , then you are a master builder Like Paul, and right in what you do. But call a Pig a pig when you see it brother. Lets don't ascribe it of GOD when it is not. Now tell me Have i told you wrong brother. You can not eat the from the table of GOD and Satan at the same time WJ> I call you this day to chose between GOD and Mammon brother. Its not the end of your life or the universe but it is important brother, because you are held responsible and you full well know that. I believe you will make the right decision brother.
Peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:13) Quote (georg @ Oct. 18 2009,23:25)
W.J. It is History shows this!!
About 2,000 years ago in the area of the world that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, lived a group of people called the Celts.
IreneDoes the devil own the days? Or are the days the Lords?
Since when does satan own Oct 31st?
Who causes the sun to rise and set on that day?
Who created Oct 31st?
I think you have missed my point!
WJ
W.J. Satan is the God of this world. God lets the sun rise on the righteouss, and the wicked. I showed that Halloween started as a festival of Ghost and the death. The
Celts were heathens and had their own God and not the God of the Bible. You simple can't get away from that. God tells us not to do what the Heathen did, and He hates those feast. If God hates it, shouild we not follow suite?
IreneMandy……I truly love you and yours, i know your heart is under conviction of our GOD and His ways, Look i also know the pressure you are under with regards to this Halloween thing, Your generation and mine are not the same. and Pressure on you are not on me. I understand that Sis. You do what You must i know GOD will not forsake you no matter what you choose , but i truly believe because of your understanding that in time you will reject this Halloween thing completely Sis. O by the way if someone comes and rings my bell i will give them candy not for no other reason but to prevent them from destroying my property, but i will keep my lights off though and Hope they go away. Most years no one come to my place.
peace and love to you and yours Mandy…………………..gene
Hi Paul
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 18 2009,04:48) Handing out Bible tracts to door knockers and the like is a good use of a witnessing opportunity IMO, and is much preferable to scowling at them. But you're still adopting at least one of the integral elements of Halloween, the candy. In that sense you haven't really set up something as a counterpoint to the festival, which I think is something you wanted to achieve? To be in the world but not of the world. Am I right? The problem I have with this approach is because it has a semblance to standard practice for Halloween celebration it has the effect of indirectly condoning the festival to the nonchristians who are observing you. Do you see my point? Blessings
Paul
But if what you are saying is true then even if I give the Tract without the candy then it would still be the same thing.Or what if I knew it was a needy family and I give them some food or money in the name of Jesus? (and we have done this)
Would the world perceive this as condoning the worship of devils and demons or practicing witchcraft?
Blessings Keith
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 18 2009,23:07) Gene Quote (Gene @ Oct. 18 2009,20:27) Thinker………..If Satan is dead why keep his day then?
Can you show scripture where satan owns any days?WJ
GeneThank you for your non answer!
Everyday is the Lords day. At least it is in my world!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:50) Hi Paul Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 18 2009,04:48) Handing out Bible tracts to door knockers and the like is a good use of a witnessing opportunity IMO, and is much preferable to scowling at them. But you're still adopting at least one of the integral elements of Halloween, the candy. In that sense you haven't really set up something as a counterpoint to the festival, which I think is something you wanted to achieve? To be in the world but not of the world. Am I right? The problem I have with this approach is because it has a semblance to standard practice for Halloween celebration it has the effect of indirectly condoning the festival to the nonchristians who are observing you. Do you see my point? Blessings
Paul
But if what you are saying is true then even if I give the Tract without the candy then it would still be the same thing.Or what if I knew it was a needy family and I give them some food or money in the name of Jesus? (and we have done this)
Would the world perceive this as condoning the worship of devils and demons or practicing witchcraft?
Blessings Keith
I have to marble on this. Like you have only Halloween to do good. That is so ridiculous. O well,
IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 19 2009,00:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:50) Hi Paul Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 18 2009,04:48) Handing out Bible tracts to door knockers and the like is a good use of a witnessing opportunity IMO, and is much preferable to scowling at them. But you're still adopting at least one of the integral elements of Halloween, the candy. In that sense you haven't really set up something as a counterpoint to the festival, which I think is something you wanted to achieve? To be in the world but not of the world. Am I right? The problem I have with this approach is because it has a semblance to standard practice for Halloween celebration it has the effect of indirectly condoning the festival to the nonchristians who are observing you. Do you see my point? Blessings
Paul
But if what you are saying is true then even if I give the Tract without the candy then it would still be the same thing.Or what if I knew it was a needy family and I give them some food or money in the name of Jesus? (and we have done this)
Would the world perceive this as condoning the worship of devils and demons or practicing witchcraft?
Blessings Keith
I have to marble on this. Like you have only Halloween to do good. That is so ridiculous. O well,
Irene
IreneYou call giving to the needy food or money ridiculous?
Every day should be for good, right?
It seems that you guys concede that the devil owns Oct 31st and that God is asleep on that day!
WJ
WJ…Sorry i didn't think you wanted me to answer, No Satan does not own any day. Unless we give it to him. I guess would be my answer, But remember I personally do not believe in a Satan (Being), Its the spirit of Adversity to GOD that to me is the SATAN and that can be any man who is in Adversity to GOD. Scripture says Satan is the Prince of the POWER of the Air, Our speech is transmitted through the Air and the power behind it is US.The Practice of Halloween is an adversity to GOD IMO.
peace and love…………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 18 2009,21:13) So called “occult practices” are benign in my opinion.
Yes, but you import what I consider to be a false premise into this conclusion, namely the preterist precept that Satan has been rendered inactive. It's unorthodox and I don't hold to it. Satan is a live and well (though his days are numbered) and occultic festivals like halloween have potency.Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 19 2009,01:01) Paul,
I read your post again and I have a question for you. David said that WJ is keeping a “bad association” because he gives out candy on halloween. You seem to agree with David.
I would say the bad association is with the event itself.Quote Paul was referring to those who deny the resurrection when he was referring to “bad associations.” So here is my question: Who is the real threat? Is it WJ who gives out candy? Or is David the real threat to our faith because he denies the resurrection?
I really don't know why this question is being directed at me. Are you trying to set up an argument between me and David or me and WJ? Seems to me that you are. David already knows I am not enamored with watchtower theology. Halloween maybe the only doctrine we see eye to eye on. WJ already knows my stance on Halloween. Both are wrong in my view. Which registers worst? I have no idea.Quote I wonder why you chastised WJ and I but said nothing to David. Please reply.
huh? Am I obliged to comment on everything that I disagree with? I'd never get off the computer chair. I've said plenty to David in the past, we have a long history of butting heads.Thinker what's with this post? I just don't get where you are coming from.
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 19 2009,04:38) thinker……..Then as lights of the world why involve yourself with there customs, I agree with Isa 1:18, where is the line at thinker, to what extent do you engage in these satanic rituals. Do we justify any behavior we chose to, by saying we are (FREE) to do What every we Decide we want to do, Where is the line at thinker. Halloween is totally a Evil Satanic Practice no matter how you color it thinker. As i said before you put any mask on a pig , but it's still a pig. IMO gene
Yes, where is the line? Is there a line?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:09) Hi brother Paul! I appreciate your words and respect your opinions for I know your Spirit as one of integrity and always being fair in any discussion!
All I can say is I am at liberty in Christ to use my time on Oct 31st as a time for family, friends and a Church gathering to do what I believe is right.
I find no fault in kids dressing in Bible Characters, or playing games and giving candy and prizes to them.
If I answer my door and innocent little children are standing there with their parents asking for candy, I give it to them with a tract!
Brother WJ, appreciate you taking my remarks in the good spirit is which they were given. I guess my response to this is, why not just the tract or a small Bible? Then you could explain to the kids that the value of what they have been given far exceeds the value of the candy (eternal vs. temporal)? You would then be offering a genuine counterpoint to the standard practice of giving candy.Quote Sorry, I don’t buy the fact that I am participating in their sins, no more than I am participating in the sins of Pornography by using the internet or the TV.
I've been tring to put my finger on what exactly it is that makes me so uncomfortable with christians participating in halloween. I think it's the syncretism that invariably results, meshing something worldly with something divine and pure. It never works Brother. We are called to be set apart from the world.Quote IMO “religious” men have to often turned the world off by their snobby, holier than thou attitudes.
Yes, but that's a seperate issue. As I see it, this is more about brothers in the Lord trying to keep each other out of trouble.Quote Jesus provided wine at a wedding feast where he knew men were more than likely getting plastered! Was Jesus partaking of their sin? Of course he wasn’t. It was customary to serve wine at a wedding, so nothing was wrong with Jesus creating the wine. What men did with it afterward was their own responsibility.
I think the more pertinent analogy is – did Yeshua participate in the equivalent pagan rituals or festivals of His day?Quote Jesus sat down and ate with publicans, sinners, and tax collectors. Why? Because…
They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:13-17
13 And he went forth again by the sea side; and all the multitude resorted unto him, and he taught them. 14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.
15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Yes, but spending time with publicans, sinners, and tax collectors doesnt compromise your spiritual wellbeing. Would you attend a seance? That's a more legitimate example.Quote I think we have more liberty in Christ than men realize. I believe under the direction of the Holy Spirit I can walk into a bar and sit down with drunken men and have a glass of water and tell them about Jesus!
And I would never discourage this.Blessings
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 18 2009,23:07) Gene Quote (Gene @ Oct. 18 2009,20:27) Thinker………..If Satan is dead why keep his day then?
Can you show scripture where satan owns any days?WJ
GeneThank you for your non answer!
Everyday is the Lords day. At least it is in my world!
WJ
Agreed.Saying that the Devil contaminates certain days and music is giving him too much power.
It is a weak conscience that allows the devil to gain victory or ownership over days, numbers, musical notes, and the like.
If we have faith toward God, then we can eat what we want (within reason) and can go where we want (within reason) and talk to whomever we want, and all at any time or day (within reason).
What I mean by within reason, is that there may be good reasons to not do something, such as weakening the conscience of a brother, or if the act is detrimental in some other way. Apart from that, we are not bound by days and traditions. We can live for Christ any day. We can save people on the Sabbath. We can give to the poor at Halloween.
We don't have to think, wait a sec, I can't be generous because it is Halloween.
Is 1:18 has stated:
Yes, but spending time with publicans, sinners, and tax collectors doesnt compromise your spiritual wellbeing. Would you attend a seance? That's a more legitimate example.
I wonder what people would say to this? Or would they just ignore it?
Would they say:
Yes, I would bring Christianity to this seance and partake of this seance in my own way.
Would they say:
God owns everything in the earth including this table that the seance is being held at, so why let them make this table bad; I will overcome the bad with good.
Would they say:
But seances are fun. They're shown in movies. And sometimes theirs candy….(OK, I made the candy part up.)
Is 1:18 also said:
I've been tring to put my finger on what exactly it is that makes me so uncomfortable with christians participating in halloween. I think it's the syncretism that invariably results, meshing something worldly with something divine and pure. It never works Brother. We are called to be set apart from the world.
Come now! Jesus and the apostles were all about mixing the good with the bad. Would they let paganism overtake them? No, they'd jump right in with the pagans and mimic their unholy behavior!He also asked this:
I think the more pertinent analogy is – did Yeshua participate in the equivalent pagan rituals or festivals of His day?
Obviously he did! He loved pagan rituals. Anything having the least to do with mimicking or adopting practices that are connected to false gods….he was all over that stuff!(Thinker, I'm being sarcastic here.)
Quote Thank you for your non answer! Everyday is the Lords day. At least it is in my world!
–WJ
Then if it is the Lord's day, where is the honor due him? Should you not imitate the Lord if it is the Lord's day? Why imitate the world if it is the Lord's day? The 2 are directly opposed. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. Jesus followers are “no part of the world.”
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 19 2009,19:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 18 2009,23:07) Gene Quote (Gene @ Oct. 18 2009,20:27) Thinker………..If Satan is dead why keep his day then?
Can you show scripture where satan owns any days?WJ
GeneThank you for your non answer!
Everyday is the Lords day. At least it is in my world!
WJ
Agreed.Saying that the Devil contaminates certain days and music is giving him too much power.
It is a weak conscience that allows the devil to gain victory or ownership over days, numbers, musical notes, and the like.
If we have faith toward God, then we can eat what we want (within reason) and can go where we want (within reason) and talk to whomever we want, and all at any time or day (within reason).
What I mean by within reason, is that there may be good reasons to not do something, such as weakening the conscience of a brother, or if the act is detrimental in some other way. Apart from that, we are not bound by days and traditions. We can live for Christ any day. We can save people on the Sabbath. We can give to the poor at Halloween.
We don't have to think, wait a sec, I can't be generous because it is Halloween.
Amen t8,
It is the weak conscience that gets all bent out of shape about such things. Paul could attend a pagan feast because he had the knowlege that no gods exist. Pagan feasts are benign. Halloween also is benign and we may use that day for the Lord.thinker
Quote But if what you are saying is true then even if I give the Tract without the candy then it would still be the same thing. –WJ
WJ, we know you won't and can't give the tract without the candy. You are being asked this question:
Trick (mean prank) or Treat (candy)? The choice is yours. As long as you give in to their demands, they won't harm you. But if you just give them a tract, I see egging in your future.Quote Or what if I knew it was a needy family and I give them some food or money in the name of Jesus? (and we have done this) –WJ
WJ, I think you don't get the point. IT'S NOT THE DOING OF GOOD THAT ANYONE IS SPEAKING AGAINST.
Let's play the “what if” game.
What if you decided to dress up like Hitler every year on Hitler's birthday, and give people presents on that day? The giving of presents is of course good. BUT WHY DO IT THAT WAY, AS IF TO HONOR HITLER? Why not do it on a day YOU choose and not the world? Why not do it in YOUR way instead of mimicing the world?Quote You call giving to the needy food or money ridiculous? Every day should be for good, right?
–WJ
Yes, every day should be for good. That is EXACTLY how we, the ones arguing against you feel. Yet, you hold this day as special….this day that the world has devoted to some ancient pagan celebration.
Quote David said that WJ is keeping a “bad association” because he gives out candy on halloween. –thinker.
Again, no, I didn't say that. I quoted the “bad association” scripture after WJ said that Jesus spent time with sinners. You added the rest.Quote Or is David the real threat to our faith because he denies the resurrection? –thinker.
Or is the real threat liars, such as Thinker? I would say the real threat are unreasonable people who think they know better what others think….such as thinker.Quote huh? Am I obliged to comment on everything that I disagree with? I'd never get off the computer chair. I've said plenty to David in the past, we have a long history of butting heads. –Is 1:18
Is 1:18, do you think it is wrong for Thinker to continually assert that I 'deny the resurrection'? He has made this statement about 8 times now. I continue to correct him. He continues to make this statement. I find it odd that he keeps saying this in this thread. It's like he's trying to discredit me or something. Even if that were true, it wouldn't make the Bible principles concerning halloween any less real. And, when do you think is an appropriate time to stoop to his level?
Quote Thinker what's with this post? I just don't get where you are coming from. –Is 1:18
Tell me about it! His logic baffles me as well. He doesn't seem that interested in actually discussing halloween.Quote (t8 @ Oct. 19 2009,19:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 19 2009,16:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 18 2009,23:07) Gene Quote (Gene @ Oct. 18 2009,20:27) Thinker………..If Satan is dead why keep his day then?
Can you show scripture where satan owns any days?WJ
GeneThank you for your non answer!
Everyday is the Lords day. At least it is in my world!
WJ
Agreed.Saying that the Devil contaminates certain days and music is giving him too much power.
It is a weak conscience that allows the devil to gain victory or ownership over days, numbers, musical notes, and the like.
If we have faith toward God, then we can eat what we want (within reason) and can go where we want (within reason) and talk to whomever we want, and all at any time or day (within reason).
What I mean by within reason, is that there may be good reasons to not do something, such as weakening the conscience of a brother, or if the act is detrimental in some other way. Apart from that, we are not bound by days and traditions. We can live for Christ any day. We can save people on the Sabbath. We can give to the poor at Halloween.
We don't have to think, wait a sec, I can't be generous because it is Halloween.
This really surprises me. Even tho I agree about the food etc., but not about the day of Halloween. The devil is making this day or night his own. It is not so much the day as it is the people who are making it that day. And that is so sad to me. Making evil good. No my friend God hates the heathen
feast and so should we. We here in America have become so ignorant of what is good and what is evil. People are closing their eyes, and the Communist are taking over. At least we as Christians should see what goes on, and be awake. Most are asleep and don't care.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 19 2009,18:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 18 2009,21:13) So called “occult practices” are benign in my opinion.
Yes, but you import what I consider to be a false premise into this conclusion, namely the preterist precept that Satan has been rendered inactive. It's unorthodox and I don't hold to it. Satan is a live and well (though his days are numbered) and occultic festivals like halloween have potency.
Paul,
I am withdrawing my offer to have a personal debate with you as I fear it might get too personal. But I will reply to any statements you make on the public board. You said that my preterist belief that satan has been destroyed is “unorthodox.” I don't care if it is unorthodox. I care only if it is biblical.The idea that satan is still operating in the world today is thoroughly unbiblical. Jesus said,
NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out (John 12:31-32)
Note that Jesus said “NOW” in reference to satan's demise. He did not say, “his days are short.” Satan has been cast into the lake of fire. Therefore, halloween is benign.
thinker
Quote Halloween also is benign and we may use that day for the Lord. –thinker.
Then do as you say and “use that day for the Lord.”
The “Lord” conquered the world and kept separate from it's ways. The Lord did not embrace the world, but rather was hated by it because he chose to be different.Quote NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out (John 12:31-32) Note that Jesus said “NOW” in reference to satan's demise. He did not say, “his days are short.”
No, he said Satan was “cast out.” But based on the fact that later, John wrote that Satan's time was short (Revelation) we know Satan was still in existence.
At that he said to them: “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven (luke 10:18)
He was speaking about the future time, when this would happen. (Rev 12:8,9,12)
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