Halloween is coming up

[KangarooJack]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 15 2009,06:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 15 2009,06:34) Hi, This peculiar american tradition based on spiritism should not be posted in this section should it? Nick  I agree with that completely.  So move it.  You have the right to, and some hear would even appreciated that. It is not of a Christian that I am sure of., is it? Peace and Love Irene

Yes, Let's all live according to Irene's conscience.

thinker

[Is 1:18]

I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question.

Ephesians 5:1-11
1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them

Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,03:27)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,10:33) Quote (georg @ Oct. 14 2009,20:59) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 14 2009,18:03) Good Lord, help us all! Mandy!  I can't believe you anymore.  Don't you know what Halloween is?  Why would anyone wants to dress up as a Ghost or a Witch, and go out on a dark night with little Kids? Do you kow where all of this started?  I know you still have little ones, I am sorry, but even then. And yes, I sure hope that the Lord will help us all. Peace and Love Irene “To the pure ALL things are pure.” It is only the defiled conscience that is offended. thinker Hi Jack Amen! I find it interesting that those who desire to wrap chains around those who are free, are also the ones who do not even have a church fellowship or gather with other believers! Blessings Keith

Keith,
Good point about those here who do not worship. I marvel that some here judge those who do not worship God their way when they don't worship Him at all. Even under the new covenant worship is a corporate exercise. Those who do not go to church are non-worshipers and therefore have no right to judge people.

I want to be clear that I would not pass out candy on halloween if I knew my brother would stumble by it. If he is just offended I would ignore him. Our brother stumbles when we do something that causes him to do it against his conscience. If he said to himself, “If Jack can do it I can do it” he would be acting against his conscience and not according to liberty.

If he is just trying to put me under his conscience then I will tell him to go fly a kite. Christ died to set me free from regulations and I will be steadfast in my libery except where love for my brother must trump my liberty.

thinker

[georg]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02)

I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question. Ephesians 5:1-11 1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. 3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?

Thank you for those Scriptures.  We know were it originated.  In Babylon.  It is not good fruit, is it.!!!
Irene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02)

I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question. Ephesians 5:1-11 1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. 3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?

If Paul could eat meat offered to idols at a pagan feast, then we can pass out candy to youngsters on “halloween.”

Paul said that nothing is unpure of itself. All things are purified by the pure in heart. “To the pure all things are [made] pure.”

The pagan origins don't matter. Paul said that he could attend a pagan feast and eat meat offered to idols. How could passing out candy on halloween be worse then what Paul would do at a pagan feast? Just as Christians had Judaizers back then so we have them today. They are not content unless they take away our liberty in Christ and bind us to the rule of their consciences.

thinker

[Is 1:18]

Jack,
Paul wrote of “impurity” in the very verse I quoted. So evidently there is such a thing as impurity for the christian. Our liberty in Christ is not a licence to sin. I have more to write on this but I have to dash to work.

Blessings

[Is 1:18]

Ephesians 5:1-3
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 15 2009,06:53)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 15 2009,04:51) However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. I believe that halloween falls in this same category and while we must never put traditions of man before the commandments of God, to imply associations by its having roots of evil, when to me it has no deeper roots than a custom I enjoyed as a kid, I believe does enter into the realm of legalism. If it would violate your conscience don't do it but don't say more then what scripture has given us. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. My opinion, Wm Exactly! If Paul could eat meat offered to idols at a pagan feast, then we can pass out candy to youngsters on “halloween.” Paul said that nothing is unpure of itself. All things are purified by the pure in heart. “To the pure all things are [made] pure.” The pagan origins don't matter. Paul said that he could attend a pagan feast and eat meat offered to idols. How could passing out candy on halloween be worse then what Paul would do at a pagan feast? Just as Christians had Judaizers back then so we have them today. They are not content unless they take away our liberty in Christ and bind us to the rule of their consciences. thinker

Thinker………Where did Paul attend Pagan feasts as you believe, He was using the example that those Idol were nothing and the Meat offered unto then was no different then any other meat we eat, unless your conscience condemned it and you went against your conscience. No where did he tell anyone to practice or participate in Pagan festivals at all. Handing out candy certainly is not a sin, but You are provocating participating in the festival itself. Why Honor what was started through Pagan Practices, now in you last post you trying to make it a true religious practice. Next you will be saying it has nothing to do with devils and demons right but just a pure Godly feast.

gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 14 2009,15:16)

Jack, Paul wrote of “impurity” in the very verse I quoted. So evidently there is such a thing as impurity for the christian. Our liberty in Christ is not a licence to sin. I have more to write on this but I have to dash to work. Blessings

Hi Paul

I do not think I have ever disagreed with you even once.  

But I don't see passing out candy to kids who have costumes on as sin either. I have given kids Bible tracts with their candy.

And I sure do not see anything wrong with parents or church groups having an alternative to the secular and worldy practice of it, for instance dressing as Bible Charactors and playing games as well as having candy!

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi All

There are lots of wordly practices that are wrong and we should not partake of.

For instance “Sports”, there are many worldly ungodly men that literally worship “sports” whether it be football, basketball or whatever, yet is it wrong for me or any Christian to pay money to watch sports? No, it is wrong when it takes priority in my life!

We are in the world, but not of it. We can enjoy things without sinning that the world uses for sin, this sight is a good example, for the internet is loaded with “Porn”. Am I sinning by using the internet for other purposes?

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:16)

Jack, Paul wrote of “impurity” in the very verse I quoted. So evidently there is such a thing as impurity for the christian. Our liberty in Christ is not a licence to sin. I have more to write on this but I have to dash to work. Blessings

Paul,
I did not mean that the breaking of the commandments is pure. Is this what you are thinking? Anything that causes harm to someone is wrong such as adultery, false witness and stealing. I am given to common sense interpretation.

Adultery, false witness and stealing can never be purified. But things like attending a pagan feast and passing out candy on halloween can be purified by the one who is pure in heart. Paul said, “to the pure all things are [made] pure.”

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02)

I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question. Ephesians 5:1-11 1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. 3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?

Is 1:18……I agree with you completely on this issue. Trying to make Evil, Good is like turning a gutter rat into a Prince. The Catholic Church and there Protestant daughters, have fostered these things for years they were even taught to us in our public Schools, but have there origins in pure pagan practices, and as you brought out we are to avoid them as much as possible. I not advocating being a fanatic about it , but just use good Godly sense and why promote it any way. Tell me one good thing that comes from these devil and demon things. Adults participate in it to exorcise fanaticism and unreal imaginations of all types that has nothing to do with the reality of who and what they are. When i was a child only childern participated in Halloween , but the childern grow up and now they still do it as adults even more then they did when they were childern. IMO

gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 15 2009,08:09)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02) I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question. Ephesians 5:1-11 1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. 3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it? Is 1:18……I agree with you completely on this issue. Trying to make Evil, Good is like turning a gutter rat into a Prince. The Catholic Church and there Protestant daughters, have fostered these things for years they were even taught to us in our public Schools, but have there origins in pure pagan practices, and as you brought out we are to avoid them as much as possible. I not advocating being a fanatic about it , but just use good Godly sense and why promote it any way. Tell me one good thing that comes from these devil and demon things. Adults participate in it to exorcise fanaticism and unreal imaginations of all types that has nothing to do with the reality of who and what they are. When i was a child only childern participated in Halloween , but the childern grow up and now they still do it as adults even more then they did when they were childern.   IMO gene

Paul said he was free in Christ to eat meat offered to idols. Deal with it.

thinker

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,13:24)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 15 2009,08:09) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02) I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question. Ephesians 5:1-11 1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. 3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it? Is 1:18……I agree with you completely on this issue. Trying to make Evil, Good is like turning a gutter rat into a Prince. The Catholic Church and there Protestant daughters, have fostered these things for years they were even taught to us in our public Schools, but have there origins in pure pagan practices, and as you brought out we are to avoid them as much as possible. I not advocating being a fanatic about it , but just use good Godly sense and why promote it any way. Tell me one good thing that comes from these devil and demon things. Adults participate in it to exorcise fanaticism and unreal imaginations of all types that has nothing to do with the reality of who and what they are. When i was a child only childern participated in Halloween , but the childern grow up and now they still do it as adults even more then they did when they were childern.   IMO gene Paul said he was free in Christ to eat meat offered to idols. Deal with it. thinker

Paul's statement that there is nothing unclean of itself (Ro 14:14) does not mean that there are no unclean things.

In another letter, he states God's clear command to abstain from unclean things. (2Co 6:17)

The distinction made in Ro 14:14 centers on the phrase “of itself”.

Anything that God separates (sanctifies) as being clean is clean.

Anything that God separates (condemns) as being unclean is unclean.

God specifically separates the clean and unclean foods in the Bible. (Lev 11:1-47)

God would never recommend a food or drink that is harmful to our health by falsely labeling it as clean.

A strong parallel exists between Ro 14:1-23, 1Co 8:1-13, and 1Co 10:21,27-30.

They all involve a divisive issue involving food and drink. (Ro 14:3,13,17, 1Co 8:1,8, , 1Co 10:21,27,28)

The all involve passively influencing others to sin over this issue. (Ro 14:13,15,20,23, 1Co 8:7,9-12, 1Co 10:29,30)

The 1Co verses clearly indicate the topic to be the controversy over consuming food and drink offered to idols by others. (1Co 8:1,4,7,10, 1Co 10:27,28)

The similarities give reason to believe that the Ro 14 verses refers to the same controversy.

The sinful act is committed by those who offer anything to an idol. (compare Ex 20:3-5)

In an over execise of caution, this sinful practice led some Christians to eat only vegetables, because they even feared the unknown previous use of purchased products.

Because clean food and drink does not switch its cleanliness simply because of its proximity to sinful practices (e.g., idol worship), they were considered to have weak consciences. (1Co 8:7,10)

Paul warns Christians not to indulge in what they believe is evil. (Ro 14:23, 1Co 8:10-12)

Paul warns against needless judgmental polarizations. (Ro 14:3,13, 1Co 8:8) (compare 1Co 1:10 and 2Ti 2:23)

The final decision was for all to reasonably avoid these controversial foods. (1Co 8:13, 1Co 10:27,28) (Ac 15:29, Rev 2:20)

Did Paul tell the Colossians they could eat and drink whatever they want? (Col 2:16) (No)

Note that the verse does NOT say “what you eat” or “what you drink”.

The food and drink refer to the various meal and drink offerings of the ceremonial law. (compare Lev 23:37)

Context: “a shadow of the things that were to come” (Col 2:17)

Did Paul tell the Colossians that the health laws are part of the ceremonial law and, therefore, obsolete? (Col 2:20-23) (No)

Some commands to “Touch not” and “handle not” were part of the ceremonial law. (Nu 19:11-22 note the salvation symbolism in verse 17)

However, verse 22 clearly identifies the context as being about man-made additions that were NOT commands from God.

Verse 23 clearly identifies these man-made practices as being for external show, rather than of any internal, spritiual usefulness.

Does God say that everything He created is good to be eaten? (1Ti 4:1-5) (No)

Sanctification by the word of God clearly indicates food which God has set apart as clean.

Celibacy and abstinence as a form of penance are condemned as apostate teachings.

Does the Bible say that concern over diet is insignificant? (Heb 13:8,9) (No)

Verse 9 clearly indicates the concern to be with “divers” and “strange” doctrines. These are the teachings of men, not the commandments of God.

Verse 8 emphsizes that God does not change. Therefore, His laws do not change. His ceremonial law was a foreshadowing, a symbolism, that was fulfilled in Christ. Since our bodies have not changed, His health laws still apply.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 14 2009,21:29)

Wow: Sometimes this site gets awfully trivial about opinions. No one said a word about the correct postings thinker wrote. No one gave him any credit for being scriptually on target. Just a bunch of hooey crap about satan and evil. I suppose all who are against halloween are most certainly against christmas. You know, the pagan roots back to nimrod and the tree. You surely don't worship the decorated tree or even allow it in your house, right? Look for devils and they are everywhere you look. Look for Jesus/God and peace and love will dominate your life. Its your choice. Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness. Thinker your expression was fun and non-threatning! We are free in Christ together. TK

Amen, bro! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 15 2009,03:06)

So, like anything and during any occasion you can be light to the world around you or you can be darkness. A television can bring evil into our home or good, so can a computer for that matter. So, I think if anyone is going to snub their noses at kids dressing up and going around to the neighbors for candy then they should consider getting rid of their tv and computer too. Beware of legalism as well as your freedoms and look for what edifies and builds the body up. As for me throwing a big party…I don't but I do attend the festivals each year at church. My opinion, Kathi

I loved your two cents!!

[Not3in1]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 14 2009,20:59)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 14 2009,18:03) Good Lord, help us all! Mandy!  I can't believe you anymore.  Don't you know what Halloween is?  Why would anyone wants to dress up as a Ghost or a Witch, and go out on a dark night with little Kids? Do you kow where all of this started?  I know you still have little ones, I am sorry, but even then. And yes, I sure hope that the Lord will help us all. Peace and Love Irene

Hi Irene,

I am very simple in my faith, I always have been. I dig and I've studied….believe me. I know what Halloween means to some people, but it doesn't mean that to me or my family. Christmas also is not some evil thing that has replaced anything holy to me or my family. However, if it is to you than you are right not to partake in any of it; for you it is sin.

Love,
Mandy

[KangarooJack]

Constitutionalist said;

Quote

Paul's statement that there is nothing unclean of itself (Ro 14:14) does not mean that there are no unclean things. In another letter, he states God's clear command to abstain from unclean things. (2Co 6:17)

The unclean things in 2 Corinthians 6:17 are defined in the context as being unbelievers.

Con:

Quote

God specifically separates the clean and unclean foods in the Bible. (Lev 11:1-47)

We are not under the Levitical code any longer (Hebrews 7). All foods are cleansed now (Acts 9:9-15).

Con:

Quote

Paul warns Christians not to indulge in what they believe is evil. (Ro 14:23, 1Co 8:10-12)

Agreed.

thinker

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 14 2009,14:20)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 14 2009,21:29) Wow: Sometimes this site gets awfully trivial about opinions. No one said a word about the correct postings thinker wrote. No one gave him any credit for being scriptually on target. Just a bunch of hooey crap about satan and evil. I suppose all who are against halloween are most certainly against christmas. You know, the pagan roots back to nimrod and the tree. You surely don't worship the decorated tree or even allow it in your house, right? Look for devils and they are everywhere you look. Look for Jesus/God and peace and love will dominate your life. Its your choice. Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness. Thinker your expression was fun and non-threatning! We are free in Christ together. TK Amen, bro!  I couldn't have said it better myself. Love, Mandy

Quote

Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness.

Wrong!

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthhew 15:11

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. Mark 7:15

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Mark 7:20

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,03:48)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,11:42) To All…………if we look to the origins of the false and evil pagan festivals we can see there evil, but man has alway mast Evil with ideologies of Good, that is the deception in man. Thinker say what ever we think is pure is pure, that is PURE HOGWASH, GOD has told you “O” man what is GOOD”>  In fact scripture does not say that it say “TO THE PURE” ALL THINGS ARE PURE”. PURE DOES NOT MEAN EVERYTHING I THINK IS OK IS OK. Pure means clear like pure water is clear. If we think clearly we see everything clearly, is what is being expressed there.  It never ceases to amaze me how we can justify anything we want to. Not putting anyone down i have done this myself also. But we do need to see things from GOD perspective more and more as we grow in knowledge and understanding.  These pagan day are just that PAGAN days and we are told not to (LEARN) the way of the Heathens.  IMO love to you all……………….gene Gene Paul taught against those who would put burdens of guilt on others based on their own conscience. Its one think to share what your own convictions are and it is another thing to make demands on others because you believe something is wrong. There is nothing in the scritpures that says children cannot oppose the “heathen practices” of Halloween, by dressing as doctors or pets or whatever and having fun getting candy. WJ

Man, you're my favorite Trinitarian!!

Have I told you that lately?

Love you,
Mandy

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