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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 17 2009,21:03) yawn
I agree!!
Everytime we get members who love to preach the LAW, I get bored…..
Have a great weekend all law keepers and grace receivers!
Love,
MandyQuote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 18 2009,04:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2009,09:38) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 17 2009,12:32) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,00:58) Quote (david @ Oct. 17 2009,12:05) Quote David is a JW and the JW's deny the resurrection. –Thinker.
Thinker, every time you repeat this lie, you sound dumb.
David,
I posted a source which shows you deny the resurrection. Therefore, you are bad company. So stop preaching to WJ about his alleged keeping bad company. You say I look dumb. You guys look both snub and dumb by making a big deal about pagan origins of things and all that. Who cares! It doesn't matter. This world and everything in it it and all days are God's just as WJ said.I am not trying to change the subject. I am trying to show that the finger of the law points at you too.
Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy.
You guys are self-righteous and are no different than the Pharisees that Jesus had to contend with.
thinker
You have it backwards, the pagan temple is to wicked for me to enter, and the candy is but a lure to gain entrance to that child (Zeh Mesukan).My goal is to enter Sha'arei Tziyon and not the Pagan Temple.
ConIt seems your goal is to come under the law and bind as many men as you can with you!
WJ
And your goal is to lure children with candy into the pagan temple.
Why are you talking about a pagan temple? I don't understand what you are saying? Please explain!
IreneQuote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 18 2009,05:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 17 2009,21:03) yawn
I agree!! Everytime we get members who love to preach the LAW, I get bored…..
Have a great weekend all law keepers and grace receivers!
Love,
Mandy
Hurray, we agree on this. I was trying to help them understand tho. Without much luck I think.
You can take a Horse to the water, but you can't make them drink.Irene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 18 2009,06:36) Hi not3,
Petty triumphalism over matters men do not fully grasp is pathetic.
Quote (georg @ Oct. 17 2009,11:48) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 18 2009,04:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2009,09:38) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 17 2009,12:32) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,00:58) Quote (david @ Oct. 17 2009,12:05) Quote David is a JW and the JW's deny the resurrection. –Thinker.
Thinker, every time you repeat this lie, you sound dumb.
David,
I posted a source which shows you deny the resurrection. Therefore, you are bad company. So stop preaching to WJ about his alleged keeping bad company. You say I look dumb. You guys look both snub and dumb by making a big deal about pagan origins of things and all that. Who cares! It doesn't matter. This world and everything in it it and all days are God's just as WJ said.I am not trying to change the subject. I am trying to show that the finger of the law points at you too.
Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy.
You guys are self-righteous and are no different than the Pharisees that Jesus had to contend with.
thinker
You have it backwards, the pagan temple is to wicked for me to enter, and the candy is but a lure to gain entrance to that child (Zeh Mesukan).My goal is to enter Sha'arei Tziyon and not the Pagan Temple.
ConIt seems your goal is to come under the law and bind as many men as you can with you!
WJ
And your goal is to lure children with candy into the pagan temple.
Why are you talking about a pagan temple? I don't understand what you are saying? Please explain!
Irene
The Pagan Temple was in response to TT comment about the Temple.Bottom line is you cannot sreve two Masters.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Zeh Mesukan
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 18 2009,07:16) Quote (georg @ Oct. 17 2009,11:48) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 18 2009,04:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2009,09:38) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 17 2009,12:32) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,00:58) Quote (david @ Oct. 17 2009,12:05) Quote David is a JW and the JW's deny the resurrection. –Thinker.
Thinker, every time you repeat this lie, you sound dumb.
David,
I posted a source which shows you deny the resurrection. Therefore, you are bad company. So stop preaching to WJ about his alleged keeping bad company. You say I look dumb. You guys look both snub and dumb by making a big deal about pagan origins of things and all that. Who cares! It doesn't matter. This world and everything in it it and all days are God's just as WJ said.I am not trying to change the subject. I am trying to show that the finger of the law points at you too.
Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy.
You guys are self-righteous and are no different than the Pharisees that Jesus had to contend with.
thinker
You have it backwards, the pagan temple is to wicked for me to enter, and the candy is but a lure to gain entrance to that child (Zeh Mesukan).My goal is to enter Sha'arei Tziyon and not the Pagan Temple.
ConIt seems your goal is to come under the law and bind as many men as you can with you!
WJ
And your goal is to lure children with candy into the pagan temple.
Why are you talking about a pagan temple? I don't understand what you are saying? Please explain!
Irene
The Pagan Temple was in response to TT comment about the Temple.Bottom line is you cannot sreve two Masters.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Zeh Mesukan
I serve no men, however if I put up something that I believe in ,and someone askes me about it, it is my responsibility to do so.
You are just ignoring what I have put down about the Sabbath.
IreneQuote (georg @ Oct. 17 2009,12:25) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 18 2009,07:16) Quote (georg @ Oct. 17 2009,11:48) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 18 2009,04:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2009,09:38) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 17 2009,12:32) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,00:58) Quote (david @ Oct. 17 2009,12:05) Quote David is a JW and the JW's deny the resurrection. –Thinker.
Thinker, every time you repeat this lie, you sound dumb.
David,
I posted a source which shows you deny the resurrection. Therefore, you are bad company. So stop preaching to WJ about his alleged keeping bad company. You say I look dumb. You guys look both snub and dumb by making a big deal about pagan origins of things and all that. Who cares! It doesn't matter. This world and everything in it it and all days are God's just as WJ said.I am not trying to change the subject. I am trying to show that the finger of the law points at you too.
Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy.
You guys are self-righteous and are no different than the Pharisees that Jesus had to contend with.
thinker
You have it backwards, the pagan temple is to wicked for me to enter, and the candy is but a lure to gain entrance to that child (Zeh Mesukan).My goal is to enter Sha'arei Tziyon and not the Pagan Temple.
ConIt seems your goal is to come under the law and bind as many men as you can with you!
WJ
And your goal is to lure children with candy into the pagan temple.
Why are you talking about a pagan temple? I don't understand what you are saying? Please explain!
Irene
The Pagan Temple was in response to TT comment about the Temple.Bottom line is you cannot sreve two Masters.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Zeh Mesukan
I serve no men, however if I put up something that I believe in ,and someone askes me about it, it is my responsibility to do so.
You are just ignoring what I have put down about the Sabbath.
Irene
Depends on who's glasses you look through, doesn't it? I have expalined all you have posted, several times over.Quote We are not under that law anymore, and as Gentiles we never were. It was a covenant that God made with Israel.
Exodus 31:16-17 :Therefor the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant.
verse 17 “It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever…….
When we belonged to the W.W.Church of God we too kept the Sabbath. We have learned a lot since then.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and not of yourselves, it is a free gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest you should boast.We are under a new covenant in
Luke 22:20…..”This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.”
In the old testament time, they had to make atonement for their sins and had to kill an animal for that.
Also if you want to keep te law, you have to keep the whole Law.
Romans 5:4 “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.Romans 5:3 And I testify again , to every man who becomes circumcised that you are debtors to keep the whole law.
Every man in the old Testament times became circumcised. Is that what you want to do too.
In today's society all boy babies do get circumcised, for cleanliness's only.
Peace and Love IreneWas the law minimized or eliminated by the gospel? (Lk 16:16). No. The precontext refers to the covetous nature of the religious leaders. (Lk 16:14-16). The “law and the prophets” refers to the old testament scriptures. The old testament scriptures are focused around the coming Messiah (Christ). (Lk 24:27, Jn 5:39). The message of those scriptures should have been enough to transform their covetous hearts. (Lk 16:29-31 from the post context). Now, the Messiah stood before them in human form and John was pointing the people directly to Him. The point is that a greater light was now shining and they still refused to abandon their wicked ways. (Jn 3:19). The Bible clearly states that the gospel does not nullify the law. (Ro 3:31). The post context clearly refutes any idea of the law being obsolete. (Lk 16:16,17).
If Jesus relaxed the punishment for breaking the law, then doesn't that imply that the importance of following the law is diminished? (Jn 8:3-9 compare Lev 20:10). No. Jesus did not relax the punishment. He took on the punishment Himself. (Jn 1:29, 1Pe 2:24). Jesus emphasized that we must abandon sin, which is the breaking of the law. (Jn 8:10,11 compare 1Jn 3:4). Jesus, as the Sacrifice, asks us also to be merciful and forgiving. (Mt 5:38,39 compare Ex 21:24, Mt 6:14,15).
We are no longer under the external letter of the law, but rather under the indwelling Spi
rit that loves the law. (Ro 7:6, 2Co 3:3, Heb 8:10, Heb 10:15,16). We are no longer as children under the external supervision of the law. (Gal 3:24,25, Gal 4:1-7). We are no longer hopeless lawbreakers under the condemnation of the law. (Ro 8:1,2, 1Jn 3:4-9). This verse also says we are under grace. (Ro 6:14). Grace does not abolish the law, but rather, fully establishes it. (Ro 3:31).Romans 6: 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Did Christ end the law? (Ro 10:4). No. The verse does not say Christ ended the law. Rather, it says He is the end (goal/end result) of the law. (Gal 3:24). Christ is the fulfillment of the law in the sense of being the perfect example of a life in harmony with God's law. (Mt 5:17, Jn 15:10, Heb 4:15, 1Jn 2:4-6).
Did the law become obsolete after Christ came? (Gal 3:19-25) (Ceremonial law — Yes) (Moral law — No). “It was added because of transgressions till the seed should come to whom the promise was made.” (from Gal 3:19),
“added,”
God's moral law was known prior to Sinai. (examples: Ge 26:5, Ex 16:28-30). God's ceremonial law was known prior to Sinai. (examples: Ge 4:4, Ex 5:1-3). The knowledge of God's moral law was largely lost during the centuries of Egyptian bondage, resulting in a deep decline into sin. The significance of God's ceremonial law was obscured during the centuries of exposure to Egyptian idolatry. The detailed, written communications of God's moral and ceremonial laws were added soon after the exodus from Egypt. This renewed, detailed knowledge brought the people to an awareness of sin and their need for the Savior. “The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” (from Gal 3:24). “till the seed” (Christ is the Seed, Gal 3:16). When Jesus died as the true Passover Lamb, the entire ceremonial, sacrificial system ended. (Mt 27:50,51, Col 2:14,17). Now, under faith, the moral law is written in each believer's heart, rather than remaining external in stone. (Eze 11:19,20, Heb 8:10). The moral law is not obsolete, but rather, established in each believer's heart. (Ro 3:31, Rev 12:17, Rev 14:12). The moral law is still necessary as a mirror in which all can see their sins, and thus, their need for the Savior's sacrifice and righteousness. (1Jn 3:4).
Which law? (Eph 2:15) (Ceremonial). The “law of commandments contained in ordinances” refers to the ceremonial law. (compare Ex 12:43, Nu 9:12, Col 2:14,17). The law “abolished in his flesh” refers to the ceremonial law. Jesus is the sole sacrifice for sin to Whom it pointed. (Jn 1:29, Heb 10:1-4,11,19,20, 1Pe 2:24). Which law? (Col 2:14) (Ceremonial). The “handwriting of ordinances” clearly identifies this law as the ceremonial law. The remark that this law was “against us” further identifies this as the ceremonial law. The ceremonial law written by Moses was placed on the side of the ark. (Dt 31:24-26). The stone tablets, moral law, written by God's own finger, was placed inside the ark. (Ex 40:20, Heb 9:4). The post context remarks that this law was a “shadow of things to come” and “the body is of Christ” further identifies this as the ceremonial law. (Col 2:14,17). Is the law the old covenant? (Heb 8:1-13). No.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 17 2009,09:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2009,09:38) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 17 2009,12:32) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,00:58) Quote (david @ Oct. 17 2009,12:05) Quote David is a JW and the JW's deny the resurrection. –Thinker.
Thinker, every time you repeat this lie, you sound dumb.
David,
I posted a source which shows you deny the resurrection. Therefore, you are bad company. So stop preaching to WJ about his alleged keeping bad company. You say I look dumb. You guys look both snub and dumb by making a big deal about pagan origins of things and all that. Who cares! It doesn't matter. This world and everything in it it and all days are God's just as WJ said.I am not trying to change the subject. I am trying to show that the finger of the law points at you too.
Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy.
You guys are self-righteous and are no different than the Pharisees that Jesus had to contend with.
thinker
You have it backwards, the pagan temple is to wicked for me to enter, and the candy is but a lure to gain entrance to that child (Zeh Mesukan).My goal is to enter Sha'arei Tziyon and not the Pagan Temple.
ConIt seems your goal is to come under the law and bind as many men as you can with you!
WJ
And your goal is to lure children with candy into the pagan temple.
RepostHi CON,
The law covenanted with the Jews applies to them.[Rom3.19]. We were NEVER under it and were doomed without the way of Jesus.
It has not passed away and is a useful reference along with the living bread of Christ's teaching till the morning star of Jesus rises in our hearts[2Peter]Quote CON,
I am trying to show you legalists how blind you are. For every time you judge someone from the law you are judged also from a point concerning the law. Yet you guys just keep on judging people.–Thinker.
thinker, which commandment from the law, as you say, are you judging me as speaking of?
Everything I say is I think based on Bible PRINCIPLES (basic truths).Principle: Jehovah God hates the worship of, or associated practices of other gods.
Laws can come and go and are based on principles (basic truths). But the above is a principle that will always be true.
Is it right to imitate and adopt practices that stem from paganism (using that word to include false worship) or to adopt practices that are based on false religious beliefs (dead returning on that day)?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2009,19:03) Quote (david @ Oct. 17 2009,02:48) Quote As far as a Christian seeing me, well I am not worried about there salvation for they are saved. (Romans 15:1) We, though, who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong, and not to be pleasing ourselves.
“Make this your decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or a cause for tripping.” “It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.”–Rom 14
WJ, the writer of that verse seemed worried about it. Shouldn't you be concerned about it also?
DavidWhy dont you read my whole post and then retract yours!
WJ
I did read the whole post.Did or did you not say “As far as a Christian seeing me, well I am not worried about there salvation for they are saved.” ?
I'm not sure how this could be understood differently.
You don't care about stumbling others by celebrating something that some Christians find distasteful (because Christians are already saved, you say.)But the Bible says this:
“Make this your decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or a cause for tripping.” “It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.”–Rom 14
WJ, please answer:
Would any Christians stumble over your celebrating halloween?I find it a little ironic that the talk of celebrating a holiday brought on talks of law keeping.
Whenever you seek to restric people, they will want to be free all the more…..
Curious.
Quote When you can explain to me how getting together with family and friends or meeting with a church group and dress up in bible charactors or play games and give kids candy is immoral or wrong then you have a point.
WJ, not sure if you have answered this on some page in the future, but I've asked it before:What exactly do you do on halloween?
And why do you do these things on that day? Is it you that chose that day, or are you doing it because that's the day HALLOWEEN is?
Does it seem to you you are doing it in HONOR of halloween. Does it seem you are doing it BECAUSE of halloween?Another question, WJ, and I'd like an answer.
To you, an idol is nothing, and oiji boards probably mean nothing and torot cards, etc.
Do you decorate your house with these things just to make some kind of point about freedom?If God hates something, we should shun it, not try to do that thing that he hates, but in our own manner. Would you agree?
Quote David,
I posted a source which shows you deny the resurrection. Therefore, you are bad company. So stop preaching to WJ about his alleged keeping bad company. You say I look dumb. You guys look both snub and dumb by making a big deal about pagan origins of things and all that. Who cares!–thinker.
THINKER, Exactly, who cares. Stop talking about this. I thought you were done speaking with me, because I apparently to my own amazement, don't believe in Jesus resurrection.
And no, if you actually read your own quote, you posted a source that shows we believe the resurrection took place differently than you believe. Remember all those scriptures I posted? Do they matter? Not to you. You just are trying to create the false argument that because I am one of JW's those other scriptures I quote about halloween do not matter. (I created a thread on fallacious thinking. If you search “fallacy” you will find it. Enjoy.)I only meant it looked dumb in that you kept telling ME what I believe. I know what I believe. You don't. But you keep repeating it, despite me saying I believe Jesus was resurrected. You thinking that by repeating something over and over makes it true: That is dumb.
Quote This world and everything in it it and all days are God's just as WJ said. –thinker.
But there are some bad things in this world. And God hates those bad things. If you love the things God hates, are you a friend of God?
Why don't you go give Satan a hug. Satan is “God's” right?
Dress Satan up how you want, he is still Satan.
The Bible says that friends of the world are enemies of God.
Thinker, I know you've heard this scripture. You've maybe even read it:
(James 4:4-8) Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God. 5 Or does it seem to YOU that the scripture says to no purpose: “It is with a tendency to envy that the spirit which has taken up residence within us keeps longing”? 6 However, the undeserved kindness which he gives is greater. Hence it says: “God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.” 7 Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from YOU. 8 Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. Cleanse YOUR hands, YOU sinners, and purify YOUR hearts, YOU indecisive ones.
Quote Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy. –(bold added) thinker.
So then, THINKER, by your own words, what must you do? Is this what bothers you? Is it that you know this adoption/imitation of paganism bothers and stumbles like 80% of those who claim to be Christian? By your own words, what must you do?
Quote You guys are self-righteous and are no different than the Pharisees that Jesus had to contend with. People's consciouses are not all the same. As it turns out, THINKER, not stumbling a brother is more important than halloween fun.
THINKER, YOU CAN do whatever you like. Just don't say you're following Christ, and then go and knowingly stumble others. Because that is not following Christ.
Quote Concerning your views on the resurrection I believe that you are “bad company” also. –THINKER.
So, you've said I was “bad company” like 6 or 7 times now. Do you only say things or do you act on what you believe?
Quote “So shouldn't we avoid you my man” –THINKER, few pages back.
My response was: Yes, please do.
Logic:
1. Either you don't really believe I'm bad company but are just saying it to try to diminish anything I say in regard to halloween,
Or:
2. You do believe I'm bad company and so shouldn't be speaking with me, but you are willing to go against that Bible principle because your pride would be hurt, otherwise.
Which is it?
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 17 2009,20:08) Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 17 2009,15:35) Irene, to me, it is not a law, it is love.
kol tuv (all the best to you)
And you're free to keep the so called sabbath so long asyou don't impose it on others.thinker
Actually she can't keep the law. Oops. No temple.
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