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Actually I thought he was saying that generally the white man has helped the black man out in this area and the preacher was saying that they (the black man) should help themselves not need to rely on the white man for such things.
He was saying the opposite thing to relying on the white man.He made the point that the lack of acknowledgement in such things keeps the problem going.
And recognizing it is the first step in moving forward in such things.He then said that most people that listen to him think he is racist.
But what would happen if we made the same argument about 2 countries or 2 people, would that be acceptable?
Is it just because race is such a touchy subject that it somehow becomes exempt from normal checks and balances.I think a person who can talk about such things in exactly the same manner whether it happens to be race, gender, age, country, or individuals is likely not a racist because the point is argued with equal vigor between any 2 groups showing a lack of bias.
I don't believe that the preacher is racist.
Rather I think he was brave to tackle a subject that too many are too scared to talk about in case they are labelled a racist.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2011,12:16) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 13 2011,18:49) 51 percent of violent crimes are committed by blacks, while blacks number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country,70 percent of black babies are born out of wedlock,black neighborhoods become gettos and as a result productive blacks are fleeing.
Theo,Could you tell me which one of those statistics stems from the color of skin?
What if we took the skin color out of your statistics? What if, instead of “70% of black babies are born out of wedlock”, we figured out what percent of people raised in single parent homes had babies out of wedlock?
And instead of “51% of violent crimes being committed by blacks”, what if we figure out which percentage of violent crimes are committed by people growing up in ghettos…………white, hispanic, asian, OR black.
Your stats scream, “IF YOU HAVE BLACK SKIN, YOU ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME”.
I don't believe that to be true. In fact, I believe it to be utter nonsense, as if the color of one's skin decides how violent or crime-prone that one is.
How about we figure out the percentage of blacks living below poverty level to the percentage of whites in that situation. Or the percentage of blacks growing up without a father, with a mother on welfare, and with gang-bangers as peers and role models, versus the percentage of whites growing up that same way.
How does the percentage of 5 year old black children with crack-head parents compare with 5 year old white children using the same criteria?
All of this is besides the point anyway.
“God knows if it were not for the white man, you’d be drinking water right out of the sewer right here in New York City. God knows were it not for him, you would be dying of cholera right here, in New York City; and every place else where black people are.”
Those words are racist, pure and simple.
To claim that without people of white skin to do the proper things, the black skinned people would automatically end up in ruin, is a racist statement.
If you cannot see it, I'm okay with that.
Greetings Mik ….. The stats I cited are FBI crime statistics not mine ….. The one that pertains to your skin color is that 51 percent of the violent crime in America is committed by Blacks and the black population represents 19 percent of the entire population …. The statment regarding iresponsible procreation come from Bill Cosby (A black man)…. Poverty has nothing to do with conducting self accordingly in a civilized society just because you are poor you do not have licence to engage in antisocial behavior…. The facts are the facts Mik ..no matter how you twist them ..if you want excuse antisocial behavior because of slavery,poverty and irresponsible procreation you are the problem not the solution…Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,19:11) Actually I thought he was saying that generally the white man has helped the black man out in this area and the preacher was saying that they (the black man) should help themselves not need to rely on the white man for such things.
He was saying the opposite thing to relying on the white man.He made the point that the lack of acknowledgement in such things keeps the problem going.
And recognizing it is the first step in moving forward in such things.He then said that most people that listen to him think he is racist.
But what would happen if we made the same argument about 2 countries or 2 people, would that be acceptable?
Is it just because race is such a touchy subject that it somehow becomes exempt from normal checks and balances.I think a person who can talk about such things in exactly the same manner whether it happens to be race, gender, age, country, or individuals is likely not a racist because the point is argued with equal vigor between any 2 groups showing a lack of bias.
I don't believe that the preacher is racist.
Rather I think he was brave to tackle a subject that too many are too scared to talk about in case they are labelled a racist.
Greetings T8 …. Your observation is absolutely correct and at the same time he was rebuking those who are engaged in antisocial behavior…. The US is replete with bleeding hearts that will not live among those who engage in antisocial behavior but they are the first to brand someone who cites the problem and stands up against it…. It is this kind of thinking that has done irepairable damage to the blackman by excusing antisocial behavior and citing poverty and race as the reason …. This kind of thinking is seriously flawed and will bring down this once blessed nation…Hi theodorej.
As I am not from the States, I am not that aware of the situation regarding crime in the USA.
However, for me there was enough truth in what the preacher said when looking at Africa.Much of Africa suffers greatly and that is very sad.
Even after receiving a lot of aid, the problems persist.
Something needs to be done to help Africans be free of poverty and suffering.
And I think mostly of the children who suffer.That something is not aid alone.
The change needs to come from the hearts of the people themselves and my opinion that means getting right with God as the best step forward.I saw the difference in my life too.
From the time I first believed, I wanted to do the right thing, rather than doing the right thing only when it was convenient for me.Hi Theodorej.
I apologize for having you or anyone else think I was comparing Rev. Manning to the father of lies. As I re-read my statement I see how you came to that conclusion. I was attempting to use a biblical statement as to the fact that RACISM is PRIDE and PRIDE is one the 7 most deadliest sins. And Yes prayer for both nations are needed as well as the world it's self. Haiti and New Zealand are not the only nations that have earth equates. Yes ; ,,,,, Our focus should have been to pray; Yet you and others expressed your points of view, but because you may label me and all Americans anti-social must make you a better person , ?
what happen to ” The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom” in your life.Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 14 2011,04:07) Poverty has nothing to do with conducting self accordingly in a civilized society just because you are poor you do not have licence to engage in antisocial behavior….
I agree. And I never “twisted” any facts in the process of making my post.Here are some other statistics for you. They are from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:
•About 30% of abused and neglected children will later abuse their own children, continuing the horrible cycle of abuse.
•About 80% of 21 year olds that were abused as children met criteria for at least one psychological disorder.
•Children who experience child abuse & neglect are 59% more likely to be arrested as a juvenile, 28% more likely to be arrested as an adult, and 30% more likely to commit violent crime.
If you were abused yourself, you are much more likely to abuse. You are much more likely to commit violent crime and be arrested, thus filling a space in our prison system.
Must you have black skin for these stats to be realized, Theo? Absolutely not. These “more likely” statistics have to do with HOW YOU WERE BROUGHT UP – NOT THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN.
So I wasn't denying the validity of the stats you posted. I was inviting you to swap the word “black” with other words. For example, here is one of the stats you qouted:
51 percent of violent crimes are committed by BLACKS, while BLACKS number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country,Let's swap out the word “black” now:
51 percent of violent crimes are committed by THOSE WHO GROW UP WITNESSING REGULAR VIOLENCE ON A DAILY AND PERSONAL BASIS, while THOSE WHO GROW UP WITNESSING REGULAR VIOLENCE ON A DAILY AND PERSONAL BASIS number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country.Do you now get my point? Let me try some different words:
51 percent of violent crimes are committed by THOSE WHOSE PARENTS DID NOT PRAY WITH THEM, OR HAVE AN ACTIVE PART IN TEACHING THEM RIGHT FROM WRONG, while THOSE WHOSE PARENTS DID NOT PRAY WITH THEM, OR HAVE AND ACTIVE PART IN TEACHING THEM RIGHT FROM WRONG number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country.Our difference is that you see SKIN COLOR as a violence stimulus. I see the way INDIVIDUALS are brought up, REGARDLESS OF THEIR SKIN COLOR, as that stimulus.
I did not grow up with a crack addicted mother. My father was present each night at the dinner table, and worked hard each day. I didn't have an eight year old brother trying to feed and take care of me when I was two because my mom was always drunk and prostituting. I didn't witness that older brother steal to feed me, or kill someone to get the money we needed to pay the bills so we didn't have to live on the street. I didn't witness his 12 friends all patting him on the back and giving him accolades for the great and brave thing he did by killing that other dude.
You see, I didn't grow up with that kind of useless, senseless crap in my life. I didn't grow up learning at a young age that was just the way it was. I didn't grow up learning and believing that cops were evil and deserved to die.
BUT MANY PEOPLE DO GROW UP JUST LIKE THAT. And many of them, black AND white, grow up in the prison system as a result.
Theo, would it surprise you to know that the same 51% of our black prison population was also the same 51% of our black population that grows up like I just described?
If you grow up around child abuse, you are much more likely to abuse a child. It only stands to reason that if you grow up around constant violence, you will be much more likely to commit violence.
AND NONE OF IT HAS ANYTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE PIGMENTATION OF ONE'S SKIN.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,02:11) Actually I thought he was saying that generally the white man has helped the black man out in this area and the preacher was saying that they (the black man) should help themselves not need to rely on the white man for such things.
What he said was, left to their own devices, black people would have made a mess of New York City. But thankfully, the better, smarter white man fixed all the problems for them. Which was a good thing, because they couldn't possibly have built a nice, clean city without the help of the better, smarter white man. They would have ended up drinking sewer water and contracting cholera if it was left up to them.So get out there on your hands and knees and make sure you thank that white man, you no good blacks!
t8, I'll try this one more time:
“God knows if it were not for the white man, you’d be drinking water right out of the sewer right here in New York City. God knows were it not for him, you would be dying of cholera right here, in New York City; and every place else where black people are.”Do you think it is an accurate statement that, without white people, black people are DESTINED to muck everything up, and end up drinking out of the sewer? YES or NO?
Do you think it is accurate to say that if not for white skinned people, blacks would be dying of cholera everywhere black people are? YES or NO?
Quote (thehappyman @ Dec. 15 2011,09:21) Hi Theodorej.
I apologize for having you or anyone else think I was comparing Rev. Manning to the father of lies. As I re-read my statement I see how you came to that conclusion. I was attempting to use a biblical statement as to the fact that RACISM is PRIDE and PRIDE is one the 7 most deadliest sins. And Yes prayer for both nations are needed as well as the world it's self. Haiti and New Zealand are not the only nations that have earth equates. Yes ; ,,,,, Our focus should have been to pray; Yet you and others expressed your points of view, but because you may label me and all Americans anti-social must make you a better person , ?
what happen to ” The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom” in your life.
Greeting Happyman ….. It is truly a pleasure to have conversation with you …. An apology is not necessary for a point that was well made…. The sin of pride is indeed the foundation for personal sin and it was in fact the very first sin… The sin of pride caused satan to aspire to the most high and for that he was cast out of the heavenly realm …. For a person to be a racist he must indiscriminately hate another because of the color of his skin or his racial origin …. There is no hate in one wanting his race survive…. and a prayerfull appeal before God for the blackman is the mission of Rev.Manning…. In the process he is compeled to bring to fore the sins of his race …. This is not racism ….This is truth..in addition “The fear(respect for) of God is the beginning of wisdom” When one is mindfull of Gods law and strives to live by it… he blesses with the wisdom that is needed to discern right from wrong and good from evil and truth from non truth…..In closing Iam an american who has stopped making excuses for bad behavior and just as Rev Manning is rebuking his own… Iam attempting to impart the wisdom to those who are willing listen….
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2011,07:17) Hi theodorej. As I am not from the States, I am not that aware of the situation regarding crime in the USA.
However, for me there was enough truth in what the preacher said when looking at Africa.Much of Africa suffers greatly and that is very sad.
Even after receiving a lot of aid, the problems persist.
Something needs to be done to help Africans be free of poverty and suffering.
And I think mostly of the children who suffer.That something is not aid alone.
The change needs to come from the hearts of the people themselves and my opinion that means getting right with God as the best step forward.I saw the difference in my life too.
From the time I first believed, I wanted to do the right thing, rather than doing the right thing only when it was convenient for me.
Greetings T8 ….. What needs to done is they need to have Godly rightous leaders and on an individual basis people need to take responsibility for own existance….Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,12:31) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 14 2011,04:07) Poverty has nothing to do with conducting self accordingly in a civilized society just because you are poor you do not have licence to engage in antisocial behavior….
I agree. And I never “twisted” any facts in the process of making my post.Here are some other statistics for you. They are from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:
•About 30% of abused and neglected children will later abuse their own children, continuing the horrible cycle of abuse.
•About 80% of 21 year olds that were abused as children met criteria for at least one psychological disorder.
•Children who experience child abuse & neglect are 59% more likely to be arrested as a juvenile, 28% more likely to be arrested as an adult, and 30% more likely to commit violent crime.
If you were abused yourself, you are much more likely to abuse. You are much more likely to commit violent crime and be arrested, thus filling a space in our prison system.
Must you have black skin for these stats to be realized, Theo? Absolutely not. These “more likely” statistics have to do with HOW YOU WERE BROUGHT UP – NOT THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN.
So I wasn't denying the validity of the stats you posted. I was inviting you to swap the word “black” with other words. For example, here is one of the stats you qouted:
51 percent of violent crimes are committed by BLACKS, while BLACKS number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country,Let's swap out the word “black” now:
51 percent of violent crimes are committed by THOSE WHO GROW UP WITNESSING REGULAR VIOLENCE ON A DAILY AND PERSONAL BASIS, while THOSE WHO GROW UP WITNESSING REGULAR VIOLENCE ON A DAILY AND PERSONAL BASIS number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country.Do you now get my point? Let me try some different words:
51 percent of violent crimes are committed by THOSE WHOSE PARENTS DID NOT PRAY WITH THEM, OR HAVE AN ACTIVE PART IN TEACHING THEM RIGHT FROM WRONG, while THOSE WHOSE PARENTS DID NOT PRAY WITH THEM, OR HAVE AND ACTIVE PART IN TEACHING THEM RIGHT FROM WRONG number only 19 percent of the population of the entire country.Our difference is that you see SKIN COLOR as a violence stimulus. I see the way INDIVIDUALS are brought up, REGARDLESS OF THEIR SKIN COLOR, as that stimulus.
I did not grow up with a crack addicted mother. My father was present each night at the dinner table, and worked hard each day. I didn't have an eight year old brother trying to feed and take care of me when I was two because my mom was always drunk and prostituting. I didn't witness that older brother steal to feed me, or kill someone to get the money we needed to pay the bills so we didn't have to live on the street. I didn't witness his 12 friends all patting him on the back and giving him accolades for the great and brave thing he did by killing that other dude.
You see, I didn't grow up with that kind of useless, senseless crap in my life. I didn't grow up learning at a young age that was just the way it was. I didn't grow up learning and believing that cops were evil and deserved to die.
BUT MANY PEOPLE DO GROW UP JUST LIKE THAT. And many of them, black AND white, grow up in the prison system as a result.
Theo, would it surprise you to know that the same 51% of our black prison population was also the same 51% of our black population that grows up like I just described?
If you grow up around child abuse, you are much more likely to abuse a child. It only stands to reason that if you grow up around constant violence, you will be much more likely to commit violence.
AND NONE OF IT HAS ANYTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE PIGMENTATION OF ONE'S SKIN.
Greetings …. A great retort and a convincing argument if the discussion was on statistical data that is by its nature color blind for the sake of discussion… So how would you compute if you wanted to put a face on the statistics you just cited…when you consider the politically correct nature of all statistical reporting by the government… My question to you is how would I apply the stats to real people without deceminating key elements such as age,income,education,community and race ….Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,12:40) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,02:11) Actually I thought he was saying that generally the white man has helped the black man out in this area and the preacher was saying that they (the black man) should help themselves not need to rely on the white man for such things.
What he said was, left to their own devices, black people would have made a mess of New York City. But thankfully, the better, smarter white man fixed all the problems for them. Which was a good thing, because they couldn't possibly have built a nice, clean city without the help of the better, smarter white man. They would have ended up drinking sewer water and contracting cholera if it was left up to them.So get out there on your hands and knees and make sure you thank that white man, you no good blacks!
t8, I'll try this one more time:
“God knows if it were not for the white man, you’d be drinking water right out of the sewer right here in New York City. God knows were it not for him, you would be dying of cholera right here, in New York City; and every place else where black people are.”Do you think it is an accurate statement that, without white people, black people are DESTINED to muck everything up, and end up drinking out of the sewer? YES or NO?
Do you think it is accurate to say that if not for white skinned people, blacks would be dying of cholera everywhere black people are? YES or NO?
Mike, I don't believe that skin colour determines destiny because what does melanin have to do with anything apart from offering varying degrees of protection against the sun. However, God does deal with peoples, tongues, tribes, nations, and as we see curses resulting from sin, we also see them pass down to proceeding generations. So problems are indeed passed down through genealogies and it would be a good bet that the colour of one's skin is indicative of being more closely related and Mike this is the link. Being related is where the links to inheritance both good and bad are passed down. For example, I see the same demons I struggled against when I was younger playing out in my son's life right now. He is related to me, so why should I be surprised. I don't think this has anything to do with DNA, but is a spiritual thing.So it is possible that the problems we see stem from things that happened long ago. If we believe that Noah had 3 sons who are the fathers of the races, then anything these guys did could reverberate down the genealogical line. Of course such things can be broken and are not unchangeable.
In Christ it is said there is no female, male, black, white, Jew, Gentile etc, because Christ becomes the curse for us and thus we are all made righteous in him which overrides any curses or limitations we inherit because all things are possible in Christ. But outside of Christ, there are things that are probably too complex for us to deal with, but nevertheless, the stats are what they are and that is the reality that I can see whether I like it or not.
The pastor said that where ever his people were there were these problems that often white man had to fix. To prove his words wrong, all that needs to happen is to show a place where this is not true. If no such place exists, then even that of course is still not conclusive proof, but it would be coincidental, and likely way too coincidental.
When I look at Africa I see much suffering and likewise obviously Haiti too as demonstrated in the video. Where is there a place where there is no intervention of the white man where the black man lives in prosperity, good health, and a relatively safe environment. Believe me when I say I wish that such places existed because I hate suffering and hate to see others suffer. But it is just that I do not know of one example where this is the case. And it appears that the wealthiest blacks live in countries where there are white men.
I think Pastor Manning was pointing that out as a fact and saying that instead of blaming the white man, what about thanking him.
Yes that may seem radical in today's world and no doubt many would see this as racist, but what is the answer if we are to ignore the stats?
Does pretending that there is no problem make the problem go away.
Pastor Manning was advocating looking the problem in the face and dealing with it so it would not continue. Because recognising a problem is always the first step in dealing with a problem.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2011,14:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,12:40) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,02:11) Actually I thought he was saying that generally the white man has helped the black man out in this area and the preacher was saying that they (the black man) should help themselves not need to rely on the white man for such things.
What he said was, left to their own devices, black people would have made a mess of New York City. But thankfully, the better, smarter white man fixed all the problems for them. Which was a good thing, because they couldn't possibly have built a nice, clean city without the help of the better, smarter white man. They would have ended up drinking sewer water and contracting cholera if it was left up to them.So get out there on your hands and knees and make sure you thank that white man, you no good blacks!
t8, I'll try this one more time:
“God knows if it were not for the white man, you’d be drinking water right out of the sewer right here in New York City. God knows were it not for him, you would be dying of cholera right here, in New York City; and every place else where black people are.”Do you think it is an accurate statement that, without white people, black people are DESTINED to muck everything up, and end up drinking out of the sewer? YES or NO?
Do you think it is accurate to say that if not for white skinned people, blacks would be dying of cholera everywhere black people are? YES or NO?
Mike, I don't believe that skin colour determines destiny because what does melanin have to do with anything apart from offering varying degrees of protection against the sun. However, God does deal with peoples, tongues, tribes, nations, and as we see curses resulting from sin, we also see them pass down to proceeding generations. So problems are indeed passed down through genealogies and it would be a good bet that the colour of one's skin is indicative of being more closely related and Mike this is the link. Being related is where the links to inheritance both good and bad are passed down. For example, I see the same demons I struggled against when I was younger playing out in my son's life right now. He is related to me, so why should I be surprised. I don't think this has anything to do with DNA, but is a spiritual thing.So it is possible that the problems we see stem from things that happened long ago. If we believe that Noah had 3 sons who are the fathers of the races, then anything these guys did could reverberate down the genealogical line. Of course such things can be broken and are not unchangeable.
In Christ it is said there is no female, male, black, white, Jew, Gentile etc, because Christ becomes the curse for us and thus we are all made righteous in him which overrides any curses or limitations we inherit because all things are possible in Christ. But outside of Christ, there are things that are probably too complex for us to deal with, but nevertheless, the stats are what they are and that is the reality that I can see whether I like it or not.
The pastor said that where ever his people were there were these problems that often white man had to fix. To prove his words wrong, all that needs to happen is to show a place where this is not true. If no such place exists, then even that of course is still not conclusive proof, but it would be coincidental, and likely way too coincidental.
When I look at Africa I see much suffering and likewise obviously Haiti too as demonstrated in the video. Where is there a place where there is no intervention of the white man where the black man lives in prosperity, good health, and a relatively safe environment. Believe me when I say I wish that such places existed because I hate suffering and hate to see others suffer. But it is just that I do not know of one example where this is the case. And it appears that the wealthiest blacks live in countries where there are white men.
I think Pastor Manning was pointing that out as a fact and saying that instead of blaming the white man, what about thanking him.
Yes that may seem radical in today's world and no doubt many would see this as racist, but what is the answer if we are to ignore the stats?
Does pretending that there is no problem make the problem go away.
Pastor Manning was advocating looking the problem in the face and dealing with it so it would not continue. Because recognising a problem is always the first step in dealing with a problem.
t8this is a good post ,and so true
thank for itPierre
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2011,07:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2011,12:40) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 14 2011,02:11) Actually I thought he was saying that generally the white man has helped the black man out in this area and the preacher was saying that they (the black man) should help themselves not need to rely on the white man for such things.
What he said was, left to their own devices, black people would have made a mess of New York City. But thankfully, the better, smarter white man fixed all the problems for them. Which was a good thing, because they couldn't possibly have built a nice, clean city without the help of the better, smarter white man. They would have ended up drinking sewer water and contracting cholera if it was left up to them.So get out there on your hands and knees and make sure you thank that white man, you no good blacks!
t8, I'll try this one more time:
“God knows if it were not for the white man, you’d be drinking water right out of the sewer right here in New York City. God knows were it not for him, you would be dying of cholera right here, in New York City; and every place else where black people are.”Do you think it is an accurate statement that, without white people, black people are DESTINED to muck everything up, and end up drinking out of the sewer? YES or NO?
Do you think it is accurate to say that if not for white skinned people, blacks would be dying of cholera everywhere black people are? YES or NO?
Mike, I don't believe that skin colour determines destiny because what does melanin have to do with anything apart from offering varying degrees of protection against the sun. However, God does deal with peoples, tongues, tribes, nations, and as we see curses resulting from sin, we also see them pass down to proceeding generations. So problems are indeed passed down through genealogies and it would be a good bet that the colour of one's skin is indicative of being more closely related and Mike this is the link. Being related is where the links to inheritance both good and bad are passed down. For example, I see the same demons I struggled against when I was younger playing out in my son's life right now. He is related to me, so why should I be surprised. I don't think this has anything to do with DNA, but is a spiritual thing.So it is possible that the problems we see stem from things that happened long ago. If we believe that Noah had 3 sons who are the fathers of the races, then anything these guys did could reverberate down the genealogical line. Of course such things can be broken and are not unchangeable.
In Christ it is said there is no female, male, black, white, Jew, Gentile etc, because Christ becomes the curse for us and thus we are all made righteous in him which overrides any curses or limitations we inherit because all things are possible in Christ. But outside of Christ, there are things that are probably too complex for us to deal with, but nevertheless, the stats are what they are and that is the reality that I can see whether I like it or not.
The pastor said that where ever his people were there were these problems that often white man had to fix. To prove his words wrong, all that needs to happen is to show a place where this is not true. If no such place exists, then even that of course is still not conclusive proof, but it would be coincidental, and likely way too coincidental.
When I look at Africa I see much suffering and likewise obviously Haiti too as demonstrated in the video. Where is there a place where there is no intervention of the white man where the black man lives in prosperity, good health, and a relatively safe environment. Believe me when I say I wish that such places existed because I hate suffering and hate to see others suffer. But it is just that I do not know of one example where this is the case. And it appears that the wealthiest blacks live in countries where there are white men.
I think Pastor Manning was pointing that out as a fact and saying that instead of blaming the white man, what about thanking him.
Yes that may seem radical in today's world and no doubt many would see this as racist, but what is the answer if we are to ignore the stats?
Does pretending that there is no problem make the problem go away.
Pastor Manning was advocating looking the problem in the face and dealing with it so it would not continue. Because recognising a problem is always the first step in dealing with a problem.
Greetings T8 ….. It is comforting to know that Iam not a voice in the wilderness or a messenger with a mesage that is falling on deaf ears… Your post was correct in its mesage….Thanks…Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2011,14:26) Mike, I don't believe that skin colour determines destiny because what does melanin have to do with anything apart from offering varying degrees of protection against the sun.
That's EXACTLY what I've been trying to say! Can anyone refute t8's above words?Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2011,14:26) the stats are what they are and that is the reality that I can see whether I like it or not.
But you are looking at skewed stats, and ending up with a skewed “reality”, t8. And that's what I'm trying to show you guys. Here's a stat for you:One-legged people only make up 2% of America's population, yet they account for 99% of foot race defeats.
If we don't start with an even playing field from the beginning, then the stats will become skewed.
So, instead of starting off with BLACKS are only 19% of the population, but make up 51% of the prison population, let's even the odds first.
Let's say that while blacks only make up 19% of America's population, they make up 75% of Americans living in ghettos, growing up in the midst of daily violence and theft on a personal level.
Now the fact that they make up 51% of the prison population seems more reasonable. Actually, it seems just about right.
A more realistic, and less skewed statistic would be: Although people growing up in violent, crime and drug prone neighborhoods only make up 19% of America's population, they make up 51% of America's prison population.
And it just so happens, that out of that 19% of Americans growing up in these kinds of places, 85% of them are BLACK.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2011,14:26) Where is there a place where there is no intervention of the white man where the black man lives in prosperity, good health, and a relatively safe environment.
You're kidding, right? There are hundreds of tribes in Africa living exactly like they have for thousands of years – untouched by white influences. How do you suppose the Aborigines thrived before England decided to dump its worst criminals in Australia? Were they drinking out of sewers? Or were they drinking fresh water before white progress slowly poisoned all our drinking water on the planet?Thanks to the white man's great achievements, we have what we call “valley fever” in Phoenix, Az, where I live. People and pets die from this lung disease caused from air pollution. Thanks to the white man's greatness, most people won't even drink tap water here, because of water pollution. Thanks to the white man, you have a whole in the ozone over your country certain times of the year.
Yeah, we white people are doing a real bang up job running things better than the black people.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 15 2011,14:26) The pastor said that where ever his people were there were these problems that often white man had to fix.
That's NOT what the pastor said, t8. If you think it is, you are white-washing his words. He didn't say the word “often”. He didn't say “maybe” you'd be drinking out of sewers if not for the white man. He didn't even say “probably” you'd be drinking out of sewers. He made a statement of FACT. He said point blank, “God knows if it were not for the white man, you’d be drinking water right out of the sewer right here in New York City. God knows were it not for him, you would be dying of cholera right here, in New York City; and every place else where black people are.”I don't see the word “often”, “maybe”, or “probably”………..do you?
So you go on thinking how great the white people are at solving everyone's problems. And I'll keep wearing a surgical mask when I go outside so I don't die from valley fever. I'll keep buying bottled water and filling our landfills with non-biodegradable plastic. At least I can look forward to someday having ocean front property in AZ, thanks to the white men who developed CFCs. And you can feel all warm and fuzzy with the sun shining down on you without the protection of the ozone layer.
T8, how many black people have created weapons of mass destruction? What percentage of black people have unleashed biological weapons on other human beings? How many black people invented gasoline powered engines to pollute our air? How many of them invented coal burning, steam powered industrial plants? How many of them invented the pesticides that spew into our ground water every day, polluting our drinking water?
Do you really want to get into a debate about black peoples' negative influences on our planet versus white peoples'?
Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 15 2011,11:26) My question to you is how would I apply the stats to real people without deceminating key elements such as age,income,education,community and race ….
Theo,White people make up only 45% of America's population, yet they make up 99% of all white collar criminals.
Do you think that ALL of the white people in America need to find new God-fearing pastors because of this stat?
What's the percentage of white serial killers versus black ones? Do white people in general need to be scolded and racially stereotyped because there are WAY more white serial killers than black ones?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 16 2011,12:49) White people make up only 45% of America's population, yet they make up 99% of all white collar criminals.
All right, now we are talking.So here is a stat that shows the white man with a larger share of a particular crime. Now if we do not hide this because it is race based, then we could move toward the first step to trying to stop this crime and that would be to concentrate some help toward the white man if he is disproportionately represented in this crime which I tend to believe is the case too.
I really don't have a problem with that. So long as the stat is true and I put truth way above the fear of offending any man.
Like anything in life, when you want to lessen a problem like car accidents, you need to look at who is mainly to blame, and if it is drunk drivers, then target them with help. So would it then be racist to target the white man in order to lessen white collar crime. No it would not be racist. It would be smart because you would be targeting the place where the problem lies and what is the problem with that?
There was this guy in New Zealand who held a top position in an employment organisation and he made a comment recently that woman have more days off work due to looking after kids and because of their period. The guy was shot down in flames, persecuted by nearly everyone, and he had to stand down from his job. For me, I was totally surprised that no one, nor the media actually asked if what this guy said was true. It seemed that the truth mattered very little and political correctness mattered much more. In his defense he was actually making a comment about a stat, and in his mind he wasn't putting woman down, but giving a legitimate reason as to why the stat was like it was. Anyway, I don't know if the stat is true or not, but just pointing out that nobody cared if it was or if it wasn't.
I think that a society that ignores truth because it might be offensive is digging itself deeper into self-delusion. Likewise if I was an alcoholic and someone said to me you are an alcoholic and you need help, then that may be offensive to me, but it is certainly not by definition a hate based comment on par with racism, and is likely to actually be a message of help.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2011,03:11) So would it then be racist to target the white man in order to lessen white collar crime. No it would not be racist. It would be smart because you would be targeting the place where the problem lies and what is the problem with that?
So you're going to target ME, just because I'm white? Even though I'VE never personally committed a white collar crime?Is it really fair to say that white people in general need to be targeted because of this “white” problem?
It is NOT fair or just to tell the members of the white population that they, (all of them in a blanket, general statement), need to find better preachers because of their white collar, arson, and serial killing crime problem. (72% of arsonists are white males.)
It wouldn’t be fair, because it is not a “white” problem. In fact, it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the color of skin. It has to do with CERTAIN people breaking certain laws.
As soon as people make it about color, they senselessly condemn an entire race of people for the iniquities of CERTAIN individual members.
The color of one's skin does NOT make that one more violent, nice, smart, fat, or deceptive. Skin pigmentation aids in protection from the sun. Let's just leave it at that, and have no more talk of “black people this” or “white people that”. Because ALL white people don’t do “that”, and ALL black people don’t do “this”.
peace,
mikeMike, I think it was mentioned before that the colour of one's skin has little to do with character, but everything to do with being related in a genealogical sense and we know clearly from scripture that curses and blessings pass down genealogies. If you don't believe that, then how do you view Ishmael and Isaac for example.
I see to much cross over in this conversation and if emotions were tamed, there would be more rational thought and consequently more agreement too.
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