Gospel of John

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 20 2007,18:11)

The Gospel of John (as well as the epistles attributed to the same author) seems to blur “ownership” of commandments. Let's look:

Mat 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” [speaking of the OT Law]
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Mat 22:40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
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1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
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Rev 12:17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
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Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

As you can see, in other books of the NT, even Paul's, the focus is on God's commandments. But the author of the Gospel of John and the Epistles of John “blur” the lines.

Joh 14:15 “If you love Me[Jesus], you will keep My commandments.
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Joh 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
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Joh 15:10 “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love
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1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
1Jn 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

As you can see, the writer of the GoJ and 1 John transferred from God's commandments to Yahshua's commandments. Why?

did not jesus say he did not speak of himself,and if GOD was in him ,speaking thru him ,for god to say keep my commandments,whats wrong with this,should GOD have said ,while speaking thru jesus,keep jesus commandments,HMMM they were and are one.also jesus seems to be speaking of the father not himself in all the I AM statments, glorifying GOD's NAME,for he said ,I AM the LIGHT,I AM THE LIFE , I AM the TRUTH, I AM the BREAD that came down from heaven,and where I AM there you cannot come,(where GOD is you cannot come)I AM from above,I AM not of this world,before abraham was, I AM, I AM the door of the sheep,I AM the good sheperd, 12:28father, glorify your name. then came a voice from heaven,saying,I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.all of these I AM statements glorify the fathers name.yet who was speaking to glorify it,the FATHER,or JESUS. the father said he had glorified it and would again.thus the father was speaking thru jesus.

August 21, 2007 at 1:52 am#64530

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 19 2007,00:27)

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 17 2007,00:47)

just because john wrote in a selfless way ,not to mention he was this diciple until the end,doesent mean he dident write it,john gives all glory to the father,and son,not claiming to be there that we would keep our eyes on jesus.did he talk about himself thru the hole book,and say this is my gosple,or did he always point you to the son,who will lead you to the father.he only identified himself at the end.

He never identified himself as John, just the “beloved disciple”.

Kejonn…. I read a artical on the Gospel of John once that said it apears that John did not write it because of the idenity of the one that is called the deciple whom Jesus loved. This person suggested that it could have been Lazraus the brother of Mary and Martha, he has been called the deciple whom he loved, and Lazarus they think was the one peter was referencing when, Jesus told Peter how he was going to die, and Peter said what about Him and Jesus said whats it to you if I stay till i return. Lazraus was not a Apostle but he was a Deciple , the other Apostles may have looked down on him a little and that is why he never disclosed his name, but he was very close to Jesus. I can't remember where I read it, but it was an interesting read.

August 21, 2007 at 2:09 am#64531

kenrch

Participant

Gene did you post something on the Sabbath thread?

Because I am tracking that thread among others. It came up in my email that you Posted in the Sabbath thread but I don't sse it.

August 21, 2007 at 2:13 am#64533

Participant

Quote (charity @ Aug. 20 2007,06:38)

It seems that Jesus implied that it is not flesh and blood that will reveal to us of his Son ship to God;

As in …my parrot can learn words too …actually it can almost hold a bible study… Even the words…. The Son of God… that shall mean nothing more than a vanity for a reward
With out knowing him as the son of Man first; unto the revelation of knowing him Now as the son of God…he even waited patiently for this to come forth from the disciples own lips, as confirmation… that all men should need to understand their transformation as his came.

Peter gets it first;
Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Mar 8:30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Also reluctant to confirm his althority in his father?
Mat 21:27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
Mat 21:24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
Even till he was brought before the unrighteous he maintained silence
Mat 26:62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what [is it which] these witness against thee?

The High priest adjured him to tell… and the answers the Son of Man; putting himself (under David) with power that he will returns on the clouds for us; as the son of Man that sits by God
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. :64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

How the Hang has is it heard … reports of Him being God? John 1;1 (WAS GOD)
Held again saying answered nothing
Mat 27:11 ¶ And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest. :12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing. :13 Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? 14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.

Now the writer of the gospel of John makes this silence and goal foolishness by having Christ answer and totally found guilty of saying his authority and standing …Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? .The gospel of John of John is checky as …Now it has him convicted and charged after the writer has Made him guilty of the offence………; Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
often shines lights on Christ as a little bit provoking and having pride…TRUTH IS Maybe Christ never said any of these words; but someone has surly said he has; even as the gospel of John Identifies its self

Again the Gospal of John Has Jesus boasts of his authority;
Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him. :39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

He did not seek trouble; he had come to feed us good food; and they cut his life off
Even he did not know they brought him as Lamb to the slaughter
Jer 11:19 But I [was] like a lamb [or] an ox [that] is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, [saying], Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.

are we not all sons and dauters of GOD,hmmm this is not against jewish law,yet they wanted to kill him because they dident know GOD,for we are all children of GOD,was not adam a son of GOD.this was just done to fulfill prophicy ,one says one thing another says somethig diferent,hmmm seems to be many more lies than truth,yet me believe john spoke the truth,for he knew the truth,that the world is blind too.therefor if he knew the truth and was in the TRUTH,me realy dont believe he lied at all,me still believe john is the true gosple,truly what jesus spoke,and diectly from the father to us,this is a love letter from GOD, may he lead you into all TRUTH, GOD loves you, me to.

August 21, 2007 at 11:47 pm#64585

Participant

And in another breath as the wind slams the door locked from the Inside Kejonn

may I try to express jsut one more time that the gospel of John has made Jesus to talk in his time of silence coming before the unrighteous;
If that even can be noticed by Men? it seems that men may then be prepared to declare a just judgement on earth; ONLY TO JUSTIFY CHRIST concerning this the matter; this is a simple request I have asked after; not hard; yet way to hard for a man; And the gospel of John with all its force shall remain the number one leader in the world; setting the Pace;while breaking the scripture according to the prophets and fathers; that even if were possible even the elect of God could be tricked by its deceit; remember how well Jobs brethren spoke; if God had not declared in this book Job righteousness; none would ever consider Jobs worthiness
Yes Michaels hear God above all men; fear God
And in everything me know God loves you so much, and me too; always ready to hear your thoughts

charity

August 22, 2007 at 2:05 am#64589

Participant

Gene,

I read another site where someone put together a theory that it was Mary Madgalene who wrote John. They used some of the gnostic writings where it was said that Mary was the one who was most loved by Yahshua. Also, there were several instances in the gnostic works where Peter and Mary were not the best of buddies. You get that feeling in the last chapter of John where Peter asks about the beloved disciple.

Check these verses out

Joh 19:25 Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
Joh 19:26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”
Joh 19:27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

Two things to note here: in verse 25, the only companions of Yahshua at the cross were women. No mention is made of the beloved disciple in verse 25, but this person suddenly shows up in verse 26. The second thing to note that the Greek word for “son” here is “huios” which was rendered as “child” or “children” 49 times in the KJV.

We can also look at the Synoptics to see who was around at the cross:

Mat 27:55 Many women were there looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee while ministering to Him.
Mat 27:56 Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
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Mar 15:40 There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mar 15:41 When He was in Galilee, they used to follow Him and minister to Him; and there were many other women who came up with Him to Jerusalem.
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Luk 23:49 And all His acquaintances and the women who accompanied Him from Galilee were standing at a distance, seeing these things

Only Luke leaves some room for there to be any male companions of Yahshua in the group of onlookers.

The person who theorized that Mary wrote the Gospel of John felt that there was likely some changing of wording by the early church because of the role of women.

Also note that it is said that Mary may very well have been an early leader among gnostics. The Gospel of John was very popular before it was canonized among early gnostics, much more so than the other Gospels.

Finally, check out some other passages concerning Mary Magdalene. Before you do, it is also interesting to note that Matthew and Mark do not mention Mary at all until the crucifixion. If we only had Matthew and Mark, we'd likely be scratching our heads trying to figure out who this Magdalene character was who not only watched the Savior die, but was the at the empty tomb before any of the Apostles. But Luke does mention her outside of these two events.

Luk 8:1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
Luk 8:2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
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Luk 10:38 Now as they were traveling along, He entered a village; and a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her home.
Luk 10:39 She had a sister called Mary, who was seated at the Lord's feet, listening to His word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.”
Luk 10:41 But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things;
Luk 10:42 but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
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Joh 11:1 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha.
Joh 11:2 It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.
Joh 11:3 So the sisters sent word to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”
Joh 11:4 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it.”
Joh 11:5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
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Joh 11:28 When she had said this, she went away and called Mary her sister, saying secretly, “The Teacher is here and is calling for you.”
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Joh 11:45 Therefore many of the Jews who came to Mary, and saw what He had done, believed in Him.
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Joh 12:3 Mary then took a pound of very costly perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.
Joh 12:4 But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, who was intending to betray Him, said,
Joh 12:5 “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people?”
Joh 12:6 Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.
Joh 12:7 Therefore Jesus said, “Let her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of My burial.
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Joh 20:16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher).
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'”
Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord,” and that He had said these things to her.

Now isn't it rather odd that Mary had such a strong role in the Gospel of John while she was rarely mentioned at all in the Synoptics? Only Luke's Gospel mentions here outside of the crucifixion and empty tomb. Now compare the Mary of Luke and John (especially John!) to some “beloved disciple” verses in John.

Joh 13:23 There was reclining on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved.
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Joh 21:20 Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?”
Joh 21:21 So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?”
Joh 21:22 Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”

Two things to note here. Yahshua loved his disciples, but I've always had a problem with a male disciple “reclining” on his bosom. However, if this was Mary…this fits with her washing his feet with her hair and sitting at his feet listening to his teaching. Also, compare the way that Yahshua rebuked Peter in John 21 with the way he reacted to Martha when she complained of doing all the work while Mary sat at his feet, and with the way he rebuked Judas when she washed Yahshua's feet with her hair.

Of course there are some other verses in John to deal with, but again, if you can accept that certain verses were w
ritten in such a way to try to hide the identity of Mary, then these make sense.

August 22, 2007 at 2:51 am#64590

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 22 2007,22:05)

Gene,

Check these verses out

Joh 19:25 Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
Joh 19:26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”
Joh 19:27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

We can also look at the Synoptics to see who was around at the cross:

Mat 27:55 Many women were there looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee while ministering to Him.
Mat 27:56 Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
—————————————————–
Mar 15:40 There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mar 15:41 When He was in Galilee, they used to follow Him and minister to Him; and there were many other women who came up with Him to Jerusalem.
—————————————————–
Luk 23:49 And all His acquaintances and the women who accompanied Him from Galilee were standing at a distance, seeing these things

Only Luke leaves some room for there to be any male companions of Yahshua in the group of onlookers.

The person who theorized that Mary wrote the Gospel of John felt that there was likely some changing of wording by the early church because of the role of women.

Luk 8:1 Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,
Luk 8:2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
—————————————————–
Luk 10:38 Now as they were traveling along, He entered a village; and a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her home.
Luk 10:39 She had a sister called Mary, who was seated at the Lord's feet, listening to His word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.”
Luk 10:41 But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things;
Luk 10:42 but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
—————————————————–
Joh 11:1 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha.
Joh 11:2 It was the Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.
Joh 11:3 So the sisters sent word to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”
Joh 11:4 But when Jesus heard this, He said, “This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it.”
Joh 11:5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
—————————————————–
Joh 11:28 When she had said this, she went away and called Mary her sister, saying secretly, “The Teacher is here and is calling for you.”
—————————————————–
Joh 11:45 Therefore many of the Jews who came to Mary, and saw what He had done, believed in Him.
—————————————————–
Joh 12:3 Mary then took a pound of very costly perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.
Joh 12:4 But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, who was intending to betray Him, said,
Joh 12:5 “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people?”
Joh 12:6 Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.
Joh 12:7 Therefore Jesus said, “Let her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of My burial.
—————————————————–
Joh 20:16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher).
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'”
Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord,” and that He had said these things to her.

Joh 13:23 There was reclining on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved.
—————————————————–
Joh 21:20 Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?”
Joh 21:21 So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?”
Joh 21:22 Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”

Two things to note here. Yahshua loved his disciples, but I've always had a problem with a male disciple “reclining” on his bosom. However, if this was Mary…this fits with her washing his feet with her hair and sitting at his feet listening to his teaching. Also, compare the way that Yahshua rebuked Peter in John 21 with the way he reacted to Martha when she complained of
doing all the work while Mary sat at his feet, and with the way he rebuked Judas when she washed Yahshua's feet with her hair.

Of course there are some other verses in John to deal with, but again, if you can accept that certain verses were written in such a way to try to hide the identity of Mary, then these make sense.

how would matthew, mark,or luke,even know,when they were not even there,and there stories are truly just here say,how blown up and changed the truth gets the more times it is told,just like an old wives tales,yet john was there and spoke the truth,if you didnt believe the TRUTH,than how can you truely believe in him.the gosple of john contains 879 verses.417,or 49%, are quotations from jesus. 417 of these quotations, or 49%, are from the old testament,. we have this in no other gosple,jesus allways pointed to the father,for as you can see in john, jesus was always quoteing the old,for god never changes,he has allways been perfect.it is not so important to recognize who wrote this,but to know this is truth,no gospel can compair!!matt 14%,mark 13%, luke 7% old testament quotations,john shows us that jesus allways spoke the truth,for 100% of jesus words in the gosple of john are out of scripture,so we have a choice to believe scripture or men and there traditions.me believe jesus and every quote from the old testament that he gave,that this is the truth.

August 22, 2007 at 3:12 am#64591

Participant

Everything is worth the look at kejonn

he he Maybe the author is Mary The mother of James and John; after all she requested that her sons be seated on each side of Christ; u know how it is with some mothers' they just won't give in.

yet I don't believe that thought to be so; I feel from the scriptures of the prophets and fathers; betrayal is within the men those at his side; one man from each tribe given a seat in government; yet with truth the Apostles are anointed; and some remain disciples learners;; acting as apostles; What can I say other than
Judah bucks using its seat of authority to remain under the Law of Moses in more deceitful way that can be ever imaginable upon a glance
That even this earth meets god’s wrath because of there advantage over us holding respect of person unto the privilege of living in the day Christ walked and lived his life.

charity

August 22, 2007 at 3:21 am#64592

Participant

the gospel's you use to cast down the truth,are very mixed with mens words and traditions,for they were followers of moses,not jesus,they spoke good of him with their mouths,yet their hearts were far from him,in the transfiguratiom,all three gospels of men that were not there said,moses was there,because they are followers of moses not GOD,or jesus.the three men who were there never mentioned this thing of mens tradition,that moses was there!!! only that jesus was there,and GOD spoke from heaven,HMMM so why diddint john, james,or peter,mention moses??is moses your god,HMMM,this is not the only made up storie these men told,they also said that jesus told people to be a respector of persons,by saying that jesus said ,to do as the law said for sacrifices,and gifts,for being healed,telling people to go to the preist,yet is not jesus our preist,hmmm traditions of men.and the whole world was decieved,and remains in this state,yet when all religion,and tradition is broken down,GOD will do the building up in truth.and there will be peace,the lion will lay down with the lamb.

August 22, 2007 at 3:40 am#64594

Participant

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 21 2007,22:21)

Michaels,
Its pretty much accepted that Mark was written by John Mark, a companion of Peter. Peter was an unlearned man, so he could likely not write or read, so he needed John Mark to record his memories for him. So if the Gospel of Mark is the words of Peter, then it is as close as an eyewitness report of the Yahshua's life as we have. The only real reason we have for believing the Gospel of John as an eyewitness account is the last chapter, which many scholars do not believe was written by the same person who wrote the first 20 chapters. None of what is written in GoJ gives positive evidence that it was written by the Apostle John. The Gospel of John was written some 60-70 years after the death of Yahshua, and was one of the last books of the NT written.

August 22, 2007 at 4:04 am#64596

Participant

Did ya Know Luke tells us Jesus is from Jacobs Son Judah

Judah wants the throne

Luk 3:33 Which was [the son] of Aminadab, which was [the son] of Aram, which was [the son] of Esrom, which was [the son] of Phares, which was [the son] of Juda, (He He the son of juda Don't thinkso???)
Luk 3:34 Which was [the son] of Jacob, which was [the son] of Isaac, which was [the son] of Abraham, which was [the son] of Thara, which was [the son] of Nachor,

Added edit to this post; sorry just found this the genology is not reckond after the birthright

1Ch 5:1 ¶ Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he [was] the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright. 1Ch 5:2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him [came] the chief ruler; but the birthright [was] Joseph's:)

Jhn 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

August 22, 2007 at 4:15 am#64598

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 22 2007,23:40)

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 21 2007,22:21)

and as it it writen peter was carried away in his latter years to where he dident want to go.hmmm where was he lead away to.hmmm so yes as you said me do belive you could be correct,he may not have written it,after all john mark lead, or carried him away where he sould not have gone.

August 22, 2007 at 4:20 am#64599

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Kejonn….> there is certainly things different about the Gospel of John. And while there were many women who were disciples of Jesus, there are a couple of places where it shows the deciple that Jesus loved might have been a man. John 19:27 say's the disciple took her into (his) household. and John 21:21-22, Peter said what about this (man) and Jesus said if I want (him) to remain till i come.

The other thing you have to concider was the beliefe of the gnostics, they believe in a type of the trinity, that is that Jesus came forth from the palora and was a God sent from the Source to restore the earth, that another God created and corrupted. They were a major problem for the Apostles and espically John . There is a lot of spectulation about all this< But the Gospel of John does seem to be different from the others. And there is something to the term, the disciple Jesus loved, and it may verywell have somthing to do with the writer of the Gospel of John.

August 22, 2007 at 4:25 am#64600

Participant

Michaels its only writen that peter was taken away hmmm?

the problem is the things writen

Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

August 22, 2007 at 4:38 am#64601

Participant

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 23 2007,00:15)

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 22 2007,23:40)

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 21 2007,22:21)

why would you think john wasent writen first.is there scripture to verify this,or just men,who found a latter dated coppy,hmmm, you know scrolls are still appearing today that prove mens dates incorect,ask GOD,you do know they burnt most of the truth,so what we have left are just fragments of all that was realy written,and matt ,mark ,and luke,are just fragments of this truth,old wives tales.mixed with some of the truth that slipped thru,out of satans grasp,if you had an existing gosple,could you not write another to tie in that it looks like it came first,and must be the truth,then again,maybe,john was written much latter than the rest,me is not infalible ,me has been wrong before,so if you do have info on this subject,me would like to hear it,me might not agree,but you never know you might have your next convert right here,hmmm may our father lead you into all truth,in jesus name,thank you father, thank you jesus,and thank you kejonn for any input,me love you,brother or sister which ever you are,not that there is any gender in the love of GOD.

August 22, 2007 at 4:51 am#64603

Participant

Quote (charity @ Aug. 23 2007,00:25)

Michaels its only writen that peter was taken away hmmm?

the problem is the things writen

Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

jonh21:18 but when thou shalt be old though shalt strech forth thy hands, and another shall gird the, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. why did jesus say this,hmmm me know what john thought this ment, but me think this was a warning,for us, for are we not tested that when we go threw the fire we should come out the other side shineing,me believe GOD, and the father spoke threw jesus.

August 22, 2007 at 7:20 am#64605

Participant

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 22 2007,16:51)

Quote (charity @ Aug. 23 2007,00:25)

Michaels its only writen that peter was taken away hmmm?

the problem is the things writen

Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

The spirit of the Lord sayest Ecc 4:15 I considered all the living which walk under the sun, with the second child that shall stand up in his stead.
Jesus Son of David
In likewise
Peter Son of Jonas
He whom has root within; his seed remaineth in him
Even the demonds shout when they see the sons of God
Jonas once runeth from feeding the Lambs
Again God sent him back and he saved a whole city
Least you BE tempted to believe a lie ; THE ACUSER OF peter shall not prevail in casting him out in his old age
O Israel genration of the children turn your hearts to the generation of the fathers whom God sent Elijah as John the baptist.

August 22, 2007 at 10:48 pm#64640

Participant

Quote (michaels @ Aug. 21 2007,23:51)

Quote (charity @ Aug. 23 2007,00:25)

Michaels its only writen that peter was taken away hmmm?

the problem is the things writen

Act 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

One thing you might want to consider: Since most scholars feel GoJ was written around 90-95 CE, Peter would have already been dead. Just think on that and why you don't see this event in Mark's Gospel if it was Peter's memories…

August 22, 2007 at 11:04 pm#64642