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Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2010,07:30) Hi SF,
I really appreciate that you took your time on this and didn't just answer without really thinking about it. Thanks!You said:
Quote Conclusion, Paul is telling me that Jesus is the Creator of the world, and that He is God himself. I understand that creation was carried out by both the Father and the Son and in the OT they were the Lord God with the outstretched Arm. I believe that is the way God presented Himself to the Israelites and they understood that as one being, however, now we know that the 'outstretched Arm' is the Son. Col 1 makes it clear that the Son was involved in creation and so does John 1:3
John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASUCol 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASUHere we see that the Father is the source for all things and the Son is the one that the Father worked through.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
NASUIn the OT we see how the Israelites saw God and His Outstretched Arm as the one God that they worshiped. In the NT we learn that the Outstretched Arm used in creation is really God's Son…the only begotten God.
Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,
18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The Lord of hosts is His name;
19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;
20 who has set signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, and even to this day both in Israel and among mankind; and You have made a name for Yourself, as at this day.
21 'You brought Your people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs and with wonders, and with a strong hand and with an outstretched arm and with great terror;
22 and gave them this land, which You swore to their forefathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey.Quote espeacilly in comparison in other scripture, like John 1:1 and revelations, and other scriptures that speak of the Alpha and the omega. the study of Melchisdek also having no father or mother. Notice many say that Melchedek himself is Jesus the high preist. who had no father no mother. no father?
Intresting.
What do you think?
The Alpha and the Omega can apply to the Father because He always existed and was the only being that always existed. He is the first always existent God and He is the last always existent God. Alpha and Omega can also apply to the Son because the Son is the first begotten God and the only/last begotten God. Do you see how they are both unique in their own right. Isn't that what Alpha and Omega can mean…a one and only of something?
As far as Melchizedek, we know that the Son as the root of David, has a Father, and as the descendant of David, the Son has a geneology and a father and a mother. So, I believe that the message about the similarities between Melchizedek and Jesus was that they both did not have a lineage that was required to be a high priest, yet each one was/is. Their priesthood was by divine appointment, not geneology.
I hope that helps, its the way that I see it anyway.
Love you, bless you!Quote Hey lighten up, I think we are going off topic, so i made a thread about it.
lets focus on this there. Consider the topic and post again.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=3246
Points and questions to consider:
1) David says the outstreched arm is the Holy Spirit, most people agree with that. I havent focused on that subject yet.
2)Israel worshiped him as one being?
3)1 cor8:6 great point, lets add that to the other thread.
4) Before Jesus existed as you say, before becomign flesh, he had not mother nor geneology. Melchesdek most say is Jesus.
5)Alpha and omega, refers to time, which is a limitation, for the image of of the invisible God to react.much love lets continue this dicussion in the other thread.
Ok SF, I moved my post to the thread that you suggested.
you said:
Quote Points and questions to consider: 1) David says the outstreched arm is the Holy Spirit, most people agree with that. I havent focused on that subject yet.
2)Israel worshiped him as one being?
3)1 cor8:6 great point, lets add that to the other thread.
4) Before Jesus existed as you say, before becomign flesh, he had not mother nor geneology. Melchesdek most say is Jesus.
5)Alpha and omega, refers to time, which is a limitation, for the image of of the invisible God to react.1. Isaiah said that the outstretched arm was revealed to be the Son.
Isa 53:1-5
53 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.
NASU
That is not describing the Holy Spirit.2. Yes, they saw the Lord God with the Outstretched Arm as the One they were to worship.
2 Kings 17:36
36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice.Deut 4:34-39
34 “Or has a god tried to go to take for himself a nation from within another nation by trials, by signs and wonders and by war and by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm and by grea
t terrors, as the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
35 “To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him.
36 “Out of the heavens He let you hear His voice to discipline you; and on earth He let you see His great fire, and you heard His words from the midst of the fire.
37 “Because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them. And He personally brought you from Egypt by His great power,
38 driving out from before you nations greater and mightier than you, to bring you in and to give you their land for an inheritance, as it is today.
39 “Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.
NASUDeut 11:2-4
2 “Know this day that I am not speaking with your sons who have not known and who have not seen the discipline of the Lord your God — His greatness, His mighty hand and His outstretched arm,
3 and His signs and His works which He did in the midst of Egypt to Pharaoh the king of Egypt and to all his land;
4 and what He did to Egypt's army, to its horses and its chariots, when He made the water of the Red Sea to engulf them while they were pursuing you, and the Lord completely destroyed them;
NASU3. All things are from the Father and made through the Son.
4. I don't believe Melchizedek is Jesus…maybe an angel though.
5. Alpha and omega refers to the beginning and the end. I will look at this further.
Enough for now.
Blessings!Quote 1. Isaiah said that the outstretched arm was revealed to be the Son.
Isa 53:1-5>That is not describing the Holy Spirit.
Idk about the outstreched arm……actually being the son.
Why do i say this?1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Lets state whats scripture says: It says who has believed our report? and to “whom” has been “revealed” the arm of the Lord?
To speculate: God gives revelations to whom he will.These are two questions. First of all, what is the report is he talking about? and what does the arm of the lord have to do with the report?.
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Here is the description of Christ, clearly.
2 Kings 17:36
36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice.Again i dont see the comparison of Christ here.
Why do i say this? because the outstreched arm can mean his eteranl omnipresence. And if it was so, when did any scrafise to Jesus?Deut 4:34-39
I dont see the implications of Jesus here. I think the outstreched arm means omnipresence more than anything.Just because God says he is the rock of our salvation, can i also speculate that meant Jesus as well?
3. Scripture does not state that everything is through the father only, but aslo through Christ. so i dont understand
if anything if Jesus IS life, than without him is death. Yet without God it would be death, Yet God is life.
12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ
I thought we only sinned against God?
4. the writer makes it clear through context, the Jesus and Melchedek are one and the same, which wouldnt be a problem bc you also believe he was existed before flesh.
5. Let me know when you do.Hi SF,
Sorry it has taken me a while to get to this…busy weekend!
You said:
Quote Idk about the outstreched arm……actually being the son.
Why do i say this?1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Lets state whats scripture says: It says who has believed our report? and to “whom” has been “revealed” the arm of the Lord?
To speculate: God gives revelations to whom he will.These are two questions. First of all, what is the report is he talking about? and what does the arm of the lord have to do with the report?.
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Here is the description of Christ, clearly.
See here:
Quote John 12:35-44
35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.
36 “While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them.
37 But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him.
38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?”
39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,
40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”
41 These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him.
42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
NASUCan we agree that the 'arm of the Lord' is the Son of God in this passage in John 12 which refers to the Isaiah 53 passage?
Can we agree that the 'arm of the Lord' is not talking about God's omnipresence here?Just answer that for now.
Hi LU,
Jesus the human vessel was helpless and unable to say or do anything much.
God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power and he went about doing good and healing those who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.[Acts 10]I do not think this wonderful vessel came to encourage folks to glorify him but to reconcile men to His God and to get us to do the same[2cor 5]
Hi Nick,
And what about the Son as the root of David? Why do you only know Him as the offspring of David?Quote (Lightenup @ June 07 2010,14:42) Hi SF, Sorry it has taken me a while to get to this…busy weekend!
You said:
Quote Idk about the outstreched arm……actually being the son.
Why do i say this?1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Lets state whats scripture says: It says who has believed our report? and to “whom” has been “revealed” the arm of the Lord?
To speculate: God gives revelations to whom he will.These are two questions. First of all, what is the report is he talking about? and what does the arm of the lord have to do with the report?.
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Here is the description of Christ, clearly.
See here:
Quote John 12:35-44
35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.
36 “While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them.
37 But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him.
38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?”
39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,
40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”
41 These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him.
42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
NASUCan we agree that the 'arm of the Lord' is the Son of God in this passage in John 12 which refers to the Isaiah 53 passage?
Can we agree that the 'arm of the Lord' is not talking about God's omnipresence here?Just answer that for now.
Hey lighten Up,I still disagree.
Let me tell you why.
For one, when i see the outstreched arm mentioned in other scriptures in the OT, it doesnt seem to mean Christ.
When it speaks of the issaih passage, it mentions the questions that was posed in that passage.
So my question was answerd, it was a prophecy about Christ, from the very first verse. But…. it was a question of belief, not nessarily meaning that the outstreched arm is christ Jesus.Dont take me to be a hard headed fool, You make a great point, Your post have always got me thinking and to study more with much curousity. but to conintue since the verse was posed as a question, it was a question of belief. If John says that they didnt believe, because they were blind correct? therefore who will believe in the gospel? Who will believe in the full revelation of God?
What does the outsterch arm mean.
Omnipresence is the best way to describe it.And lets say that it does mean Christ in the flesh. Wouldnt that also prove that Gods full omnipresene is not only spiritual and eternal, but also as christ physically and temporal?
note how Jesus says within the same passage, that the light most be believed on. the blind are lost for not believing.
Jesus cried out that Those who believe in him, dont believe in him but in HIM who sent him.The revelation of the outstecehd arm of God, in him who believes in Christ, who actually believes in the one who Sent him.
Much love =)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,16:24) Hi LU,
Jesus the human vessel was helpless and unable to say or do anything much.
God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power and he went about doing good and healing those who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.[Acts 10]I do not think this wonderful vessel came to encourage folks to glorify him but to reconcile men to His God and to get us to do the same[2cor 5]
As a human,That little boy Jesus was able to impress many within the synagoeug while he was doing his “fathers buisness”
doenst seem to be so helpless to me, he was willing to ditch his parents. you speak to low about your Lord.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 07 2010,03:25) Quote (Lightenup @ June 07 2010,14:42) Hi SF, Sorry it has taken me a while to get to this…busy weekend!
You said:
Quote Idk about the outstreched arm……actually being the son.
Why do i say this?1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Lets state whats scripture says: It says who has believed our report? and to “whom” has been “revealed” the arm of the Lord?
To speculate: God gives revelations to whom he will.These are two questions. First of all, what is the report is he talking about? and what does the arm of the lord have to do with the report?.
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Here is the description of Christ, clearly.
See here:
Quote John 12:35-44
35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes.
36 “While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them.
37 But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him.
38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?”
39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,
40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”
41 These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him.
42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
NASUCan we agree that the 'arm of the Lord' is the Son of God in this passage in John 12 which refers to the Isaiah 53 passage?
Can we agree that the 'arm of the Lord' is not talking about God's omnipresence here?Just answer that for now.
Hey lighten Up,I still disagree.
Let me tell you why.
For one, when i see the outstreched arm mentioned in other scriptures in the OT, it doesnt seem to mean Christ.
When it speaks of the issaih passage, it mentions the questions that was posed in that passage.
So my question was answerd, it was a prophecy about Christ, from the very first verse. But…. it was a question of belief, not nessarily meaning that the outstreched arm is christ Jesus.Dont take me to be a hard headed fool, You make a great point, Your post have always got me thinking and to study more with much curousity. but to conintue since the verse was posed as a question, it was a question of belief. If John says that they didnt believe, because they were blind correct? therefore who will believe in the gospel? Who will believe in the full revelation of God?
What does the outsterch arm mean.
Omnipresence is the best way to describe it.And lets say that it does mean Christ in the flesh. Wouldnt that also prove that Gods full omnipresene is not only spiritual and eternal, but also as christ physically and temporal?
note how Jesus says within the same passage, that the light most be believed on. the blind are lost for not believing.
Jesus cried out that Those who believe in him, dont believe in him but in HIM who sent him.The revelation of the outstecehd arm of God, in him who believes in Christ, who actually believes in the one who Sent him.
Much love =)
Hi SF,
Thanks for your reply. It was not as I had hoped. I was looking at commentaries today about the John 12 'arm' and some see it as the gospel of Christ, some see it as the power and miracles of Christ, some see it as Christ, so there isn't an agreement there either. Oh well, I can very well see the arm of God as being the One that God worked through, as in creation. Have you considered the Lord God that created with an outstretched arm?Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,What do you think?
Quote (Lightenup @ June 08 2010,15:57) Hi SF,
Thanks for your reply. It was not as I had hoped. I was looking at commentaries today about the John 12 'arm' and some see it as the gospel of Christ, some see it as the power and miracles of Christ, some see it as Christ, so there isn't an agreement there either. Oh well, I can very well see the arm of God as being the One that God worked through, as in creation. Have you considered the Lord God that created with an outstretched arm?Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,What do you think?
Im sorry,Im seriously not trying to be hear headed.
Im open minded to consider one people think.Than again as you say, there is alot of speculation to do with the idea of the “out strech arm.”
The strange thing is here.
I see two things by the scripture you just qouted.1) God created the heavens and the earth.
2)Through Power and the Out streched arm,
3) Nothing is diffcult for God.Here is the problem that occurs, the bible claims that God created the heaven and the earth through power, which is not created, and through his out streched arm, which neither was created.
I find it to controversal to say its Jesus or say its not Jesus to be honest. my head is a lil more clear today.
But lets say its true, that the outstrech arm is Jesus,
To say that Jesus is the literal outstrech arm of God, would be speculation.>we do not have a direct passage that says taht Jesus is the out strech arm.
even though the John 12 eludes to this idea, its really about the “prophecy” of the scripture of isaiah. So it would be diffcult to come to that conclusion. Than again does God have arms?
so this leads to the idea that we have to take this outstrech arm as somethign symbolic.I see God created everything, As Jesus. Jesus is clearly a creater and the essence of life, what would be logical since there is no such thing as two Gods, that he show the very same quality of God working within time, space, and matter.
Therefore, Why cant God be Jesus?Once upon a time there was no time,
That meant we didnt exist, time did not exist.
Was God the still the father?In other words, even though God has every pontential to be the Father, was he Father if time did not exist?
Can God be a healer, if there is no pain?
When Pain did not exist in Eden was God a healer still?besides this,
My basic conclusion is
IF Jesus is the outstrech arm, it is basically extending the point that They are literally one and the same.If they are not, than i would think it would be talking about his omnipresence.
psalms 139, is a scripture i love that talks about his omnipresense.
Again, the best way to conclude is saying, im not really sure what is the exact truth in this matter. To say or not to say what it is, or what it is not, I dont know, i rather not even trying to hold a truth to it. To much speculation in such a matter.
I think Melchisdek as more direct proof of being Jesus than the outstreched arm.
Thats what i think basically.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 08 2010,02:59) Quote (Lightenup @ June 08 2010,15:57) Hi SF,
Thanks for your reply. It was not as I had hoped. I was looking at commentaries today about the John 12 'arm' and some see it as the gospel of Christ, some see it as the power and miracles of Christ, some see it as Christ, so there isn't an agreement there either. Oh well, I can very well see the arm of God as being the One that God worked through, as in creation. Have you considered the Lord God that created with an outstretched arm?Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,What do you think?
Im sorry,Im seriously not trying to be hear headed.
Im open minded to consider one people think.Than again as you say, there is alot of speculation to do with the idea of the “out strech arm.”
The strange thing is here.
I see two things by the scripture you just qouted.1) God created the heavens and the earth.
2)Through Power and the Out streched arm,
3) Nothing is diffcult for God.Here is the problem that occurs, the bible claims that God created the heaven and the earth through power, which is not created, and through his out streched arm, which neither was created.
I find it to controversal to say its Jesus or say its not Jesus to be honest. my head is a lil more clear today.
But lets say its true, that the outstrech arm is Jesus,
To say that Jesus is the literal outstrech arm of God, would be speculation.>we do not have a direct passage that says taht Jesus is the out strech arm.
even though the John 12 eludes to this idea, its really about the “prophecy” of the scripture of isaiah. So it would be diffcult to come to that conclusion. Than again does God have arms?
so this leads to the idea that we have to take this outstrech arm as somethign symbolic.I see God created everything, As Jesus. Jesus is clearly a creater and the essence of life, what would be logical since there is no such thing as two Gods, that he show the very same quality of God working within time, space, and matter.
Therefore, Why cant God be Jesus?Once upon a time there was no time,
That meant we didnt exist, time did not exist.
Was God the still the father?In other words, even though God has every pontential to be the Father, was he Father if time did not exist?
Can God be a healer, if there is no pain?
When Pain did not exist in Eden was God a healer still?besides this,
My basic conclusion is
IF Jesus is the outstrech arm, it is basically extending the point that They are literally one and the same.If they are not, than i would think it would be talking about his omnipresence.
psalms 139, is a scripture i love that talks about his omnipresense.
Again, the best way to conclude is saying, im not really sure what is the exact truth in this matter. To say or not to say what it is, or what it is not, I dont know, i rather not even trying to hold a truth to it. To much speculation in such a matter.
I think Melchisdek as more direct proof of being Jesus than the outstreched arm.
Thats what i think basically.
Hi SF,
More questions for you
you said:Quote Than again as you say, there is alot of speculation to do with the idea of the “out strech arm.” There may be alot of speculation about the Outstretched Arm of the Lord but that doesn't mean that there isn't a decisive truth about what/who is the Outstretched Arm. I have found that understanding the Outstretched Arm of the Lord as actually being the Son of God as His right hand 'man' so to speak helps clear up things like:
1. The one Lord that is presented as 'one' could actually show that two are presented as one in the OT. The Lord with the Outstretched Arm sounds like one being but if the Arm is the Son as God's right hand helper, then two are presented by God as one and both of them are together as one Lord.
2. It explains Gen 1:26
Let Us make man in OUR image.3. It adds understanding to the actions that the Father does 'through' the Son.
Quote Here is the problem that occurs, the bible claims that God created the heaven and the earth through power, which is not created, and through his out streched arm, which neither was created. If His Outstretched Arm was figurative for the person of His Son, then the the possibility of a Son with a beginning is possible.
Quote My basic conclusion is
IF Jesus is the outstrech arm, it is basically extending the point that They are literally one and the same.Not if the outstretched arm is another way of saying 'my right hand man' or 'he is my right arm.' Have you ever heard those expressions and thought that they meant one and the same, not another person being spoken about?
Quote Again, the best way to conclude is saying, im not really sure what is the exact truth in this matter. To say or not to say what it is, or what it is not, I dont know, i rather not even trying to hold a truth to it. To much speculation in such a matter. The truth in the matter sets you free…seek the understanding which is from God. Don't settle for not knowing when we have the Spirit to guide us into all truth.
Hey Lighten up,
Im waiting for the World Cup to start.
meanwhile i would like to answer your last question and later answer the rest.
I believe in truth, i dont settle for not knowing. i do seek the spirit in such a thing. but there are matters where i see that the topic of the out strech arm, can mean a varity of things, and can help both aspects. but do hold it has Truth, only God can tell us.This is where i rather be wrong, than Right, because im not God, who am i to say what i really says when it is questionable in many senses.
In the other hand i take both approaches to the point.But let me ask one Question to you that i have made in several threads.
God is eternal correct? therefore he is above time, space, and matter.
If God particpated within Time is that a limitation?
The second that the begining started, thats when time started.
The second time started, Christ was there.
If God particpated in making a universe which is smaller than eternity, is this limitation?
If God participated within matter is this also a limitation?if anything, did God participate?
once upon a time there was no time.
when there wasnt any time, was God still father?
for example, God is a healer correct?
in order for God to be a healer there needs to be pain.But when pain didnt exist in Eden, God could not be the Healer (Jehovah rafa) because pain did not exist. Even though God had full potential to be healer, since the circumstance or the action did arise, the reaction did not manifest either.
Therefore was God the Father before time?
(this one hurt my head for a long time, until it clicked.)much love,
Soccer!!!! GO HONDURAS!!!!!
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 11 2010,05:26) Hey Lighten up, Im waiting for the World Cup to start.
meanwhile i would like to answer your last question and later answer the rest.
I believe in truth, i dont settle for not knowing. i do seek the spirit in such a thing. but there are matters where i see that the topic of the out strech arm, can mean a varity of things, and can help both aspects. but do hold it has Truth, only God can tell us.This is where i rather be wrong, than Right, because im not God, who am i to say what i really says when it is questionable in many senses.
In the other hand i take both approaches to the point.But let me ask one Question to you that i have made in several threads.
God is eternal correct? therefore he is above time, space, and matter.
If God particpated within Time is that a limitation?
The second that the begining started, thats when time started.
The second time started, Christ was there.
If God particpated in making a universe which is smaller than eternity, is this limitation?
If God participated within matter is this also a limitation?if anything, did God participate?
once upon a time there was no time.
when there wasnt any time, was God still father?
for example, God is a healer correct?
in order for God to be a healer there needs to be pain.But when pain didnt exist in Eden, God could not be the Healer (Jehovah rafa) because pain did not exist. Even though God had full potential to be healer, since the circumstance or the action did arise, the reaction did not manifest either.
Therefore was God the Father before time?
(this one hurt my head for a long time, until it clicked.)much love,
Soccer!!!! GO HONDURAS!!!!!
SF,
Ok, you don't want to lean one way or the other on the Outsretched Arm. Fine. Put it on the back burner and maybe someday it will be something that will interest you and help you understand other things.Quote But let me ask one Question to you that i have made in several threads. Which ONE of the several questions would you really like me to give my opinion on. The rest…go ask your dad
That is what I would say to my kid if he asked me all that philosophical stuff that no one really knows.Hi,
Nothing useful was ever done except by the power of the Living God.
See beyond the glorious vessels.Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2010,04:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 11 2010,05:26) Hey Lighten up, Im waiting for the World Cup to start.
meanwhile i would like to answer your last question and later answer the rest.
I believe in truth, i dont settle for not knowing. i do seek the spirit in such a thing. but there are matters where i see that the topic of the out strech arm, can mean a varity of things, and can help both aspects. but do hold it has Truth, only God can tell us.This is where i rather be wrong, than Right, because im not God, who am i to say what i really says when it is questionable in many senses.
In the other hand i take both approaches to the point.But let me ask one Question to you that i have made in several threads.
God is eternal correct? therefore he is above time, space, and matter.
If God particpated within Time is that a limitation?
The second that the begining started, thats when time started.
The second time started, Christ was there.
If God particpated in making a universe which is smaller than eternity, is this limitation?
If God participated within matter is this also a limitation?if anything, did God participate?
once upon a time there was no time.
when there wasnt any time, was God still father?
for example, God is a healer correct?
in order for God to be a healer there needs to be pain.But when pain didnt exist in Eden, God could not be the Healer (Jehovah rafa) because pain did not exist. Even though God had full potential to be healer, since the circumstance or the action did arise, the reaction did not manifest either.
Therefore was God the Father before time?
(this one hurt my head for a long time, until it clicked.)much love,
Soccer!!!! GO HONDURAS!!!!!
SF,
Ok, you don't want to lean one way or the other on the Outsretched Arm. Fine. Put it on the back burner and maybe someday it will be something that will interest you and help you understand other things.Quote But let me ask one Question to you that i have made in several threads. Which ONE of the several questions would you really like me to give my opinion on. The rest…go ask your dad
That is what I would say to my kid if he asked me all that philosophical stuff that no one really knows.
Hi Lightenup,Im sorry, you have to understand i was writing at 4 or 5 in the mourning without sleep.
dont take me to be stubborn. I do consider your points. I hope your not upset with me.
The other questions are just to make you think.
The important question i asked was the first one.
IF God particpated within time is that a limitation?much love,
Hi SF,
I'm am certainly not upset with you…no worries! You are still going to bed too late though. Get your sleep young man.Your number one question:
Quote IF God particpated within time is that a limitation? Answer: NO!
I think that it would be a limitation if God could NOT participate within time.How's that for you?
Love, K
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2010,15:07) Hi,
Nothing useful was ever done except by the power of the Living God.
See beyond the glorious vessels.
Jesus IS the power of the living God.1 Cor 1:24
24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
NASUHi LU,
THat power was given to him by his God when he was anointed at the Jordan.[Acts 10.38]
After that he was declared by God to be His Son.
You can become a daughter too942767 Online
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 4565
Joined: Sep. 2006
Posted: June 13 2010,06:00 EDIT QUOTE
Hi SF:Disagree with your assessment that Jesus is the creator, and understand this to mean that God created everything with Jesus in mind.
Quote
Hebrews 11God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Verse 2 states: “By whom (Jesus) also he (God) created the worlds.
And Genesis 1:
Quote
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.Quote
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Quote
1 Peter1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2010,14:42) Hi LU,
THat power was given to him by his God when he was anointed at the Jordan.[Acts 10.38]
After that he was declared by God to be His Son.
You can become a daughter too
No Nick,It was then that God let those present KNOW that Jesus was His Son, the beloved. God didn't ever imply that this is WHEN Jesus became God's Son, did He?
mike
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