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Quote (942767 @ Feb. 23 2010,10:04) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi thethinker:If what you are saying is true, then God could not make the will since God is eternal, and cannot die.
But God gave everything that he created to Jesus, he said:
Quote 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And for the book of Colossians:
Quote Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And Jesus as the testator made the following statement:
Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,First, where in John 16 did Jesus say that the Father gave Him all things? He simply said that “all that the Father has is Mine.” Jesus did not say that His Father gave anything to Him.
Second, the expression “all things” refers to TRUTH. Jesus meant that “all” truth that the Father has is His own as well. The Father did not “give” truth to Jesus. The Father gave Him the authority to disclose truth.
Third, you missed the part of Christ's statement inwhich He said that the Father would send the Spirit “in MY name” (or on My authority). Therefore, in the new covenant age truth is revealed according to Christ's own Sovereign will.
Supporting verse:
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Matthew 11:27
Fourth, are you going to deal with Hebrews 9:16-17?
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living
Jesus Christ made the new covenant with Israel.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,10:58) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,10:17) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi TT,How the “Testator”=151(Jesus Christ=151) becomes God(The LORD JEHOVAH=151), You have yet to explain?
You faulty premise logic assertions certainly don't do it?
Try an explanation, if you want others to have a chance to agree with you.Ed J
ED J,
And you say I don't read your posts. Read my OP to this thread and also my first post on this page.thinker
Hi TT,Your just 'spinning' the facts. Your logic can be proven faulty.
Who was the testator in the first or “Old Testament”?Ed J
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,10:13) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,18:04) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi thethinker:If what you are saying is true, then God could not make the will since God is eternal, and cannot die.
But God gave everything that he created to Jesus, he said:
Quote 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And for the book of Colossians:
Quote Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And Jesus as testator made the following statement:
Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus was given back what he shared with the Father before the days of his flesh!
But even so, it makes no difference because if the “infinite” Father gave him “ALL” things including “ALL power and authority” then that means that Jesus is infinite in “possessing” All things” and infinite in “power and authority”.
That is equality my friend. What mere finite being can contain infinite power and uphold an infinite creation?
Unless you do not think “ALL” means “All”!
The scriptures say “By him ALL things consist”! Col 1:17
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:You say:
Quote Jesus was given back what he shared with the Father before the days of his flesh! Please explain this using scripture?
He said all power over heaven and earth has been “given unto me”, but he did not give him power over Himself. Therefore, God is still God and there is none other. It is He who has given Jesus the authority that he possesses as His representative.
Please give me your definition of “equality”? It is the Word of God that was given to humanity through him and that he obeyed without sin that he is watching over to perform.
Love in Christ,
MaratyQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,04:49) Quote (david @ Feb. 22 2010,17:25) Wow, same old title confusion trick….different words. For other examples and for your amusement, search “confusion trick.” You'll find more examples of this flawed logic.
Quote Major premise: God alone is the Testator
Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is GodMajor premise: T8 is the administrator
Minor premise: Nick is the administrator
Conclusion: Therefore, Nick is t8.As you say, if both premises are correct, then the conclusion must be correct. Well, what happens when you create premises that are half true?
David,Your conclusion is false because one of your premises is false. There is more than one administrator on Heaven Net. But there is ONLY one Testator.
Major premise: God alone is the Testator
Minor premise: Jesus Christ is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus Christ is God.If both premises are true then my conclusion necessarily folows. It is beyond dispute that Premise two is true. Christ is the Testator for the testator is the one who makes the will. And the one who makes the will is the one who dies.
So do you want to challenge Premise one that God ALONE is the Testator?
Please visit a website on how to construct a valid logical syllogism. Below is a valid syllogism:
Major premise: God alone is our Savior
Minor premise: Jesus Christ is our Savior
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus Christ is GodSeeing that both premises are TRUE, then the conclusion necessarily follows. In Isaiah 43:11 God said, “Besides Me there is no Savior.” The new testament is replete with statements that Jesus Christ is the Savior. The conclusion that Jesus Christ is God necessarily follows.
thinker
Logically, if your “logic” leads you to also believe that Ehud is God, then your logic is false.You can follow your logic in exactly the same manner and it leads to that conclusion. Therefore, logically, you are using “false logic.” (Unless you think that these other ones are also “god.”) That is the only way to make your logic sound.
As regards your first premise for this thread, why didn't you support it with facts? A scripture or two. Anything?
The truth of course, is, this is just like your “savior” logic. Even if both Jesus and God and SEVERAL OTHERS are called Savior, it doesn't mean they are the same being….and that's true even if a scripture says: “besides me there is no savior.”
YOUR LOGIC leads us to believe that others are “god” also, (including Jesus, etc).
Hi Thinker,
1. Your post that I responded to says “Jesus is the sum total of our salvation.” I asked you who Jehovah is to you, then. No answer on that.
You say:
Quote What is it you think that Jude 25 proves? It simply says that glory and majesty and dominion and power belong to God our Savior. Verse 4 also says that Jesus Christ is our Savior. Jude 25 actually says:
Quote to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. To the ONLY GOD be glory, etc. So I repeat the question: Considering the rest of the sentence, do you think Jude believed Jesus was God Almighty?
I also asked the same about Paul and gave 1 Cor 8:6. It says:
Quote yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. But you didn't answer the question. So I ask again: By reading it, do you think Paul believed Jesus was God Almighty?
You quote verses from these authors that you say prove Jesus is God, so doesn't it make sense to find out if the author believes that?
Then you say:
Quote You didn't even touch Hebrews 9:16-17. Why? Are you kidding? Not only did I answer you once, but after no response from you I posted it again. See?
Quote Tt, Paul is saying Jesus left us an inheritance of everlasting life “in his will” so to speak. In order for anyone to collect an inheritance, the one who left it has to die. Jesus is the testator in that sence (see definition above).
As far as GOD'S new covenant with us, read ALL of Hebrews 9.
Verse 7: only the high priests (God's mediators at the time) entered the Most Holy, and never without blood
Verse 9: the gifts and sacrifices were not enough to clear the conscience of the worshipper
Verse 11: When Christ came as high priest, he entered a more perfect tabernacle that was not man-made
Verse 12: Christ didn't enter by means of the blood of goats and lambs (that wasn't enough according to verse 9), but by his own blood
Verse 13: the blood of animals made the Israelites outwardly clean only
Verse 14: the blood of Christ cleans our consciences from acts that lead to death, so we may serve the living God
Verse 15: Christ is the MEDIATOR of a new covenant
Can you understand that God is the testator of the new covenant and Jesus is the testator of his will by which he left us an inheritance? I already told you will and covenant are the same Greek word.
Peace and love
MikeIf that doesn't address it, I don't know what will. But let me try to explain it to you using your logic.
Jesus didn't leave a last will and testament saying, “To my beloved, I leave everlasting life.” Paul used an analogy of a will to enforce his point that through Jesus' death, we will inherit everlasting life. Much like your father/son business analogy. Do you think someone will read that later and think God and Jesus actually have a business together? No!
The new covenant is from God. The only reason Jesus is mentioned as a testator is for an anaolgy. Get it?
peace and love,
mikeHi Thinker,
You've posted 16 and 17 over and over. What about 18?
Quote 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. To follow what you're saying, God would have had to die for the first covenant to go into effect. Did He?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2010,12:41) Hi Thinker, 1. Your post that I responded to says “Jesus is the sum total of our salvation.” I asked you who Jehovah is to you, then. No answer on that.
peace and love,
mike
Hi MikeBoll,The Savior=117 is “GOD The Father”=117 [117=יהוה האלהים](JEHOVAH GOD) (Isaiah 43:11)
GOD The Father=117 was responsible for BOTH the “Old” and “New” “Testament”=117 !The Greek word for “Testament” here is [διάθήκη] diatheke=63
This Theomatic Number (63) is important in understanding God!
Theomatcs: Numbers in scripture relating to Theos(God in Greek).God's Name (יהוה) translates directly into English as YHVH=63!
The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
[“The Latter Rain“ and “former rain“] unto the earthThe “THREE” main “FEASTS OF GOD” are…
1) “The Passover”; The First Feast made possible the second Feast: “Pentecost”!
“JESUS CHRIST” slain as “The Passover” sacrifice; is the “Testator”!2) “Pentecost”=117 started the “Former Rain”=117 of
“GOD THE FATHER”=117; “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit)3) “Feast of Booths” begins “The Latter Rain”= of the
“HOLY SPIRIT”(God The Father); “Tabernacles Feast”.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,04:29) Georg said: Quote The Son, not yet called Jesus in the OT, was the husband, or if you prefer, the testator.
Georg,Thank you for the admission you give above. Christ was indeed Israel's Husband. Now guess what Georg? Israel's Husband was also her God.
For your Maker is your husband,
The LORD of hosts is His name;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;
He is called the God of the whole earth. Isaiah 54:5Major premise: Christ was Israel's Husband
Minor premise: Israels Husband was her God
Conclusion: Therefore, Christ was Israel's GodYour admission that Christ was Israel's Husband is quite significant. And your admission that Christ is also Israel's Testator is equally significant. For the testator is the one who makes the will and upon whose death the will takes effect. Hebrews 8 says that God made the will. So if Christ is the Testator then “God” in chapter 8 cannot be a reference to the Father.
Major premise: God is the Testator
Minor premise: Christ is the Testator
Conclusion: Therefore, Christ is Godor,
Major premise: Only the one who dies is Israel's Testator
Minor premise: The Father did not die
Conclusion: Therefore, the Father is not Israel's TestatorJust like the others here you didn't even touch Hebrews 9:16-17. But at least you admit that Christ is the Testator which puts you above the rest here.
thinker
thinkerHow can you remain so persistent in your ignorance?
Do you totally ignore the fact that only the Father was immortal? I say “was”, because now Jesus too has been “given” immortality. If Jesus was God, how could he have died? common sense should tell you that.
What you're doing is taking scriptures that sound like what you claim, and insist on that error.Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Is Jesus speaking to his double here in heaven?
Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
This, by the way, is what Paul is referring to in Rom. 9:5.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Did Jesus sent himself, or did he come to reveal the Father to us?
Mat 11:25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Think about that scripture for a while, thinker, and then look at the next.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
“IF” you knew the Son, you would also know the Father, if you reject one, you reject the other.
I just noticed something, in v. 25, see what it says there? “I thank thee, O Father, “Lord” of heaven and earth”. Lord is not capitalised, and it still addresses the Father.Georg
Hi thethinker:
You say:
Quote First, where in John 16 did Jesus say that the Father gave Him all things? He simply said that “all that the Father has is Mine.” Jesus did not say that His Father gave anything to Him. And so, if he is saying all things that the Father has are his, and other scriptures say that God made all things for him and also that he is God's heir. How do you suppose that he can say, “that all things that the Father has are his?
And you say:
Quote second, the expression “all things” refers to TRUTH. Jesus meant that “all” truth that the Father has is His own as well. The Father did not “give” truth to Jesus. The Father gave Him the authority to disclose truth. “All things” would mean “all things” including the truth.
And you say:
Quote Third, you missed the part of Christ's statement inwhich He said that the Father would send the Spirit “in MY name” (or on My authority). Therefore, in the new covenant age truth is revealed according to Christ's own Sovereign will. Supporting verse:
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Matthew 11:27
What does this have to do with the discussion of the testator. No man can come to the Father except through Jesus. God judges no man but has given him the authority to Judge every man.
And you say:
Quote Fourth, are you going to deal with Hebrews 9:16-17? 16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living
Jesus Christ made the new covenant with Israel.
Israel is the whole body of Christ not just the nation of Israel. He said “if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me”.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
May I make a small correction? The body of Christ, the church, does refer only to the saints, those that will come up in the first resurrection as spirit beings, and will reign with him.
When Christ begins to reign he will make a new covenant, not just with Israel, but with all mankind; we will be all under the same covenant.
It is during the second resurrection when all men will be drawn to Christ, those that refuse, will die again.Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 24 2010,13:43) Marty May I make a small correction? The body of Christ, the church, does refer only to the saints, those that will come up in the first resurrection as spirit beings, and will reign with him.
When Christ begins to reign he will make a new covenant, not just with Israel, but with all mankind; we will be all under the same covenant.
It is during the second resurrection when all men will be drawn to Christ, those that refuse, will die again.Georg
Sorry Georg:That is not my understanding. Jesus will come for the body of Christ which includes those who have died in faith both in the OT and the NT, and those who are in faith at his coming.
Those who are alive at his coming for the church who are not in faith will have received the mark of the beast and will be judged by the seven last plagues. Those who have died in their sins in the NT era will be raised from the dead after 1000 years and will be judged according to their works. They died spirtually separated from God and will be destroyed in the second death which is eternal separation from God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 24 2010,22:16) Marty Where does it say that you will be saved by your works? OT or NT?
Georg
Hi Georg:Neither place. No man will be saved by his works.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Thinker,
I was just reading Marty's response to your post and had to smile. First, you bring up your point that the Father didn't necessarily “give” all things to Jesus:
Quote
First, where in John 16 did Jesus say that the Father gave Him all things? He simply said that “all that the Father has is Mine.” Jesus did not say that His Father gave anything to Him.Then you prove yourself wrong by one of the other Scriptures you quote:
Quote All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Matthew 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by who? Brother, every time I see one of your posts and that name “the thinker” I am reminded of Matthew 11:25:
Quote At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, (translation: the thinkers) and revealed them to little children. 
peace and love
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,11:27) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,10:58) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,10:17) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi TT,How the “Testator”=151(Jesus Christ=151) becomes God(The LORD JEHOVAH=151), You have yet to explain?
You faulty premise logic assertions certainly don't do it?
Try an explanation, if you want others to have a chance to agree with you.Ed J
ED J,
And you say I don't read your posts. Read my OP to this thread and also my first post on this page.thinker
Hi TT,Your just 'spinning' the facts. Your logic can be proven faulty.
Who was the testator in the first or “Old Testament”?Ed J
We are talking about the new covenant aren't we? God made the new covenant with Israel. He was Israel's Testator. The Testator's death puts the will or covenant into effect. Who then is the only person that could qualify as the Testator of the new covenant?thinker
David said:
Quote As regards your first premise for this thread, why didn't you support it with facts? A scripture or two. Anything? David,
I have already supported my first premise in my opening post and several times thereafter. Hebrews 8 says that God made the covenant with Israel. Hebrews 9 says:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.
It is clear that “THE ONE” who made the will cannot be the Father. Therefore, the “God” of chapter 8 who made the will must refer to Christ.
David:
Quote The truth of course, is, this is just like your “savior” logic. Even if both Jesus and God and SEVERAL OTHERS are called Savior, it doesn't mean they are the same being….and that's true even if a scripture says: “besides me there is no savior.”
If the words “besides me there is no Savior” may include beings in addition to God, then you may not find fault with the trinitarian.It's funny how you read Deuteronomy 6:4 with such strict solidarity in reference to God. But when God says, “Besides me there is no Savior” you depart from that principle.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 25 2010,10:10) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,11:27) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,10:58) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,10:17) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,08:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2010,07:10) Hi TT,
You stumble over your own shoelaces.
Nick,Disprove that Jesus Christ was Israel's testator:
16In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. NIV
Do you believe that Israel had two testator gods?
thinker
Hi TT,How the “Testator”=151(Jesus Christ=151) becomes God(The LORD JEHOVAH=151), You have yet to explain?
You faulty premise logic assertions certainly don't do it?
Try an explanation, if you want others to have a chance to agree with you.Ed J
ED J,
And you say I don't read your posts. Read my OP to this thread and also my first post on this page.thinker
Hi TT,Your just 'spinning' the facts. Your logic can be proven faulty.
Who was the testator in the first or “Old Testament”?Ed J
We are talking about the new covenant aren't we? God made the new covenant with Israel. He was Israel's Testator. The Testator's death puts the will or covenant into effect. Who then is the only person that could qualify as the Testator of the new covenant?thinker
Hi TT,I answered your question TWICE now;
(once on Page 1 and again on Page 5)
don't you read my entire posts to you?You have a pattern of ignoring my questions; don't you?
You dodged my relevant question of your assertion…
Who was the “testator” of the “Old Testament”?Ed J
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 25 2010,09:39) Hi Thinker, I was just reading Marty's response to your post and had to smile. First, you bring up your point that the Father didn't necessarily “give” all things to Jesus:
Quote
First, where in John 16 did Jesus say that the Father gave Him all things? He simply said that “all that the Father has is Mine.” Jesus did not say that His Father gave anything to Him.Then you prove yourself wrong by one of the other Scriptures you quote:
Quote All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Matthew 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by who? Brother, every time I see one of your posts and that name “the thinker” I am reminded of Matthew 11:25:
Quote At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, (translation: the thinkers) and revealed them to little children. peace and love
mike
Hi Mike:Very true!
I wonder how he will try to get out of this one?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote But there is ONLY one Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator
Can we at least have the scripture or scriptures you are basing your major premise on?
The inspired writer of the book of Hebrews discusses two principal covenants, the Law covenant and the new covenant. In this discussion he refers to Christ’s mediating the new covenant. (Heb 9:15) His words at Hebrews 9:16 have been a subject of controversy among Bible scholars. Accordingly, the text has been rendered in the following ways: “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.” (KJ) “For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.” (RS) “For where a covenant is it is necessary for the death to be brought in of him that hath covenanted.” (Ro) “For where there is a covenant, the death of the human covenanter needs to be furnished.” (NW) “For where a covenant is, the death of the covenant-victim to come in is necessary.” (Yg) “For where a Covenant exists, the Death of that which has ratified it is necessary to be produced.” (ED) “For where a covenant is, there is a necessity for the death of that which establisheth the covenant.”—The New Testament in an Improved Version.
The literal rendering as set forth in interlinear translations of the Greek text is as follows: “Where for covenant, death necessity to be borne of the one having made for self covenant.” (Heb 9:16, Int) “For where there is a covenant, the death there is necessity to be offered of the one making covenant.”—The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, translated by Alfred Marshall.
The rendering of di·a·the′ke as “covenant” expresses correctly the writer’s meaning. The renderings “testament” and “will,” found in many versions, are inconsistent with the use of the term in the Greek Septuagint as well as in many places in the Christian Greek Scriptures. (Lu 1:72; Ac 3:25; 7:8; Ro 9:4; 11:27; Heb 8:6-10; 12:24) “Will” and “testament” also are out of harmony with what Paul is talking about, as he is speaking of the Law covenant and the new covenant in the context. Neither the Law covenant nor the new covenant was a “will.”
At Hebrews 9:16 the apostle Paul was evidently speaking of covenants between God and man (not man and man) as requiring sacrifices. And it may be noted that, particularly with the Hebrews, approaches to God and covenants with God were regularly based on sacrifices, the victims sacrificed sometimes being cut in pieces on the occasion of entering a covenant. It is quite obvious that the Law covenant and the new covenant required the shedding of blood in order to go into operation or to be effective before God. Otherwise God would not have recognized them as valid, nor dealt with the persons involved on the basis of a covenant relationship. (Heb 9:17) For the validation of the Law covenant, the sacrifice used was that of animals—bulls and goats—these taking the place of Moses, the mediator. (Heb 9:19) –Insight book.
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