God is the testator, jesus is the testator

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,02:22)

THE TESTATOR DEFINED: The Testator is the person who makes the covenant. God is the Testator: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10 Jesus is the Testator: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (Jesus) Hebrews 9:16 Note that Hebrews 8 says that it is God who made the covenant. Therefore, God is the Testator. Note that the Testator must die. So Jesus is the Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God Thus anti-trinitariansism is put to death! thinker

Hi thethinker:

And so, God died?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2010,08:56)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,22:36) Mike, Jesus is both the Mediator and the Testator. Hebrews 9:16 CLEARLY says that it is the Testator who dies. Therefore, Jesus is the Testator and therefore God. Jesus said, “This is the new covenant in MY BLOOD.” Again, He is both the Mediator and the Testator. He is both the sacrifice and the High priest who offers the sacrifice. He is both the Lion and the Lamb. Major premise: God made the new covenant with His people Minor premise: Jesus made the new covenant in His own blood Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God This logic is impeccable! thinker Quote tes·ta·tor   /ˈtɛsteɪtər, tɛˈsteɪtər/  Show Spelled[tes-tey-ter, te-stey-ter]  Show IPA –nounLaw. 1. a person who makes a will. 2. a person who has died leaving a valid will. Use testator in a Sentence See images of testator Search testator on the Web ——————————————————————————– Origin: 1275–1325; < L testātor; see testate, -tor; r. ME testatour < AF Tt, Paul is saying Jesus left us an inheritance of everlasting life “in his will” so to speak.  In order for anyone to collect an inheritance, the one who left it has to die.  Jesus is the testator in that sence (see definition above). As far as GOD'S new covenant with us, read ALL of Hebrews 9. Verse 7: only the high priests (God's mediators at the time) entered the Most Holy, and never without blood Verse 9: the gifts and sacrifices were not enough to clear the conscience of the worshipper Verse 11: When Christ came as high priest, he entered a more perfect tabernacle that was not man-made Verse 12:  Christ didn't enter by means of the blood of goats and lambs (that wasn't enough according to verse 9), but by his own blood Verse 13: the blood of animals made the Israelites outwardly clean only Verse 14:  the blood of Christ cleans our consciences from acts that lead to death, so we may serve the living God Verse 15: Christ is the MEDIATOR of a new covenant Can you understand that God is the testator of the new covenant and Jesus is the testator of his will by which he left us an inheritance?  I already told you will and covenant are the same Greek word. Peace and love Mike

Mike,

What you are implying is that Israel had TWO testators, the one who made the will and the one who died leaving the will. This is where anti-trinitarianism leads to every time. It leads to Israel having two Shepherds and two Saviors. Now it is two Testators. But Israel had only ONE Shepherd, Savior and Testator.

The “will” belongs to the Testator who dies. Jesus is the One who died. This is unambiguous! Jesus is the Testator. Therefore, Jesus is God!

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,06:37)

Hi TT, If you were more interested in saving your soul than winning arguments would you not reject the manmade trinity?

Nick,

Is Jesus the Testator or not?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2010,09:00)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,02:22) THE TESTATOR DEFINED: The Testator is the person who makes the covenant. God is the Testator: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10 Jesus is the Testator: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (Jesus) Hebrews 9:16 Note that Hebrews 8 says that it is God who made the covenant. Therefore, God is the Testator. Note that the Testator must die. So Jesus is the Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God Thus anti-trinitariansism is put to death! thinker Hi thethinker: And so, God died? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

I have been over this several times already.

“Feed the church of God which He purchased with HIS OWN blood” Acts 20:28

“He was put to death in the flesh but but quickened in the spirit.”

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Indeed God bought men with the blood of His Son.
Jesus is still alive in that Spirit of his God.
You are welcome to join too.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,11:38)

Hi TT, Indeed God bought men with the blood of His Son. Jesus is still alive in that Spirit of his God. You are welcome to join too.

The Bible does not say that God bought men with the blood of His Son. It says that Christ Himself purchased us with His own blood (Rev. 13:9).

Christ is the Testator! Or do you have two testator gods?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Jesus is the Son of God.
God is his father and that royal blood was shed.
God is not a man and God Himself is immortal so where do you go from there?

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Our God is spirit
Is your god flesh?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,11:04)

Mike, What you are implying is that Israel had TWO testators, the one who made the will and the one who died leaving the will. This is where anti-trinitarianism leads to every time. It leads to Israel having two Shepherds and two Saviors. Now it is two Testators. But Israel had only ONE Shepherd, Savior and Testator. The “will” belongs to the Testator who dies. Jesus is the One who died. This is unambiguous! Jesus is the Testator. Therefore, Jesus is God! thinker

Hi tt,

Paul was saying Jesus remembered us in his will, leaving us an inheritance.  Anyone in Jerusalem who left a will was a testator.  Don't make more out of the word than what is there.

And Israel had many “saviors”.  King Saul “saved” Israel from the Philistines.  The angels God sent that wiped out 185,000 troops for Hezekiah (?) was a savior.  And if you turn one person to God in your life, you too are a savior.

And I'm almost positive somewhere it says King David was a shepard of Israel.

So once more, it is GOD'S new covenant and Jesus was the sacrificial lamb to cement the contract.  Jesus never said I am making a new covenant with Israel.  The new covenant with “spiritual Israel” (God's new chosen people since the Jews disowned Jesus) is between God and his chosen.  Jesus was the sacrifice and is now the mediator between the chosen and God.  And the Holy Spirit by the way is also a mediator between us and God, but that doesn't make the Holy Spirit Jesus, just because there are more than one mediator.

That's how I understand it, anyway.

Try not to get too hung up on a single word.  You act like if someone called God “cool”, then anyone else called cool is God.

Peace and love,
Mike

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,11:10)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2010,09:00) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,02:22) THE TESTATOR DEFINED: The Testator is the person who makes the covenant. God is the Testator: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10 Jesus is the Testator: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (Jesus) Hebrews 9:16 Note that Hebrews 8 says that it is God who made the covenant. Therefore, God is the Testator. Note that the Testator must die. So Jesus is the Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God Thus anti-trinitariansism is put to death! thinker Hi thethinker: And so, God died? Love in Christ, Marty Marty, I have been over this several times already. “Feed the church of God which He purchased with HIS OWN blood” Acts 20:28 “He was put to death in the flesh but but quickened in the spirit.” thinker

Hi thethinker:

I am trying to get you to think.

God was put to death in the flesh and quickened by the Spirit?

Is that what you are saying?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,11:56)

Hi TT, Jesus is the Son of God. God is his father and that royal blood was shed. God is not a man and God Himself is immortal so where do you go from there?

Just more anti-trinitarian nonsense! The Father did not purchase us Nick. Under the Mosaic law only a kinsman could purchase someone. Jesus was Israel's kinsman.  Jesus HIMSELF was the kinsman-purchaser thus fulfilling the Mosaic law.

Let's get real here!

thinker

p.s. If Christ is the “royal blood” of the Father then He would be God. Right?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2010,13:40)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,11:10) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2010,09:00) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,02:22) THE TESTATOR DEFINED: The Testator is the person who makes the covenant. God is the Testator: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10 Jesus is the Testator: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (Jesus) Hebrews 9:16 Note that Hebrews 8 says that it is God who made the covenant. Therefore, God is the Testator. Note that the Testator must die. So Jesus is the Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God Thus anti-trinitariansism is put to death! thinker Hi thethinker: And so, God died? Love in Christ, Marty Marty, I have been over this several times already. “Feed the church of God which He purchased with HIS OWN blood” Acts 20:28 “He was put to death in the flesh but but quickened in the spirit.” thinker Hi thethinker: I am trying to get you to think.   God was put to death in the flesh and quickened by the Spirit? Is that what you are saying? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

Nope! Not quickend “by the Spirit” but in the spirit (small “s”). On other words, Jesus died only in the flesh but His spirit remained alive.

I won't let you divert from the fact that Jesus is the Testator and therefore God because God is the Testator. There is only ONE Testator.

thinker

[martian]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,02:22)

THE TESTATOR DEFINED: The Testator is the person who makes the covenant. God is the Testator: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10 Jesus is the Testator: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (Jesus) Hebrews 9:16 Note that Hebrews 8 says that it is God who made the covenant. Therefore, God is the Testator. Note that the Testator must die. So Jesus is the Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God Thus anti-trinitariansism is put to death! thinker

Major Premiss – Jesus is God
Minor Premiss – Jesus dies
Conclusion – God dies

WHAT SILLINESS.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2010,02:44)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,02:22) THE TESTATOR DEFINED: The Testator is the person who makes the covenant. God is the Testator: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10 Jesus is the Testator: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator (Jesus) Hebrews 9:16 Note that Hebrews 8 says that it is God who made the covenant. Therefore, God is the Testator. Note that the Testator must die. So Jesus is the Testator. Major premise: God alone is the Testator Minor premise: Jesus is the Testator Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God Thus anti-trinitariansism is put to death! thinker Major Premiss – Jesus is God Minor Premiss – Jesus dies Conclusion – God dies WHAT SILLINESS.

Yes!

But only the flesh literally dies.

“Feed the church of God which He has purchased with His own blood“

and,  

“He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit“

Israel did not have two Testators! The Testator was God (Hebrews 8); and the Testator dies (chap. 9). Therefore, Israel's one and only Testator was Jesus.

If you deny this you have no claim to the promises because you deny the gospel!

thinker

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:38)

Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2010,02:44) Major Premiss – Jesus is God Minor Premiss – Jesus dies Conclusion – God dies WHAT SILLINESS. Yes! thinker

Thinker,

Your Logic is MAJORLY flawed, read this Post and Get a clue!

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,15:00)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:38) Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2010,02:44) Major Premiss – Jesus is God Minor Premiss – Jesus dies Conclusion – God dies WHAT SILLINESS. Yes! thinker Thinker, Your Logic is MAJORLY flawed, read this Post and Get a clue! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Jesus said:“This is the new covenant in MY BLOOD.”

Is Jesus the Testator or not?

thinker

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,21:16)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,15:00) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:38) Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2010,02:44) Major Premiss – Jesus is God Minor Premiss – Jesus dies Conclusion – God dies WHAT SILLINESS. Yes! thinker Thinker, Your Logic is MAJORLY flawed, read this Post and Get a clue! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Jesus said:“This is the new covenant in MY BLOOD.” Is Jesus the Testator or not? thinker

Hi Thinker,

I answered that question on the FIRST PAGE for you, and you have asked me three times since.
This is obviously because you DIDN'T read my Posts! Go back and read it instead of asking me over and over.
If you didn't read my short Posts, there is no way you are going to read CA's  L  o  n  g  Post located at…
Forum  » BELIEVERS PLACE » Debates » Ca and tt: date for the writing of the apocalypse

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,21:30)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,21:16) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,15:00) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:38) Quote (martian @ Feb. 21 2010,02:44) Major Premiss – Jesus is God Minor Premiss – Jesus dies Conclusion – God dies WHAT SILLINESS. Yes! thinker Thinker, Your Logic is MAJORLY flawed, read this Post and Get a clue! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Jesus said:“This is the new covenant in MY BLOOD.” Is Jesus the Testator or not? thinker Hi Thinker, I answered that question on the FIRST PAGE for you, and you have asked me three times since. This is obviously because you DIDN'T read my Posts! Go back and read it instead of asking me over and over. If you didn't read my short Posts, there is no way you are going to read CA's  L  o  n  g  Post located at… Forum  » BELIEVERS PLACE » Debates » Ca and tt: date for the writing of the apocalypse God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED J,

I will keep asking until you answer Hebrews 9 directly.

“In case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in effect only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.” Heb. 9:16-17 NIV

It CLEARLY says that the one who made the will must die. It CLEARLY says that a will never takes effect while the one who made it is living.

Did Christ make the will? Yes or no?

From the first page you said that animals died in the old testament and they were not testators. First, Hebrews says that the blood of animals could never take away sin. Second, we are talking about the new covenant of which the animal sacrifices were only the “shadow.”

Hebrew 8 CLEARLY says that GOD made the will. Hebrews 9 CLEARLY says that the one who made the will MUST DIE for the will to take effect.

If you deny that Jesus Christ is the Testator of the new covenant, then on the authority of the word of God I must warn you that you are in danger of damnation!

And what has CA's post to do with this? I was talking about Hebrews 6 and he started a topic on the dating of the Revelation. Show where I agreed to discuss the dating of the Revelation.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Odd that you would grasp the teachings of men to your bosom and warn others of damnation.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2010,05:26)

Hi TT, Odd that you would grasp the teachings of men to your bosom and warn others of damnation.

Nick,

Why do you guys keep dancing around the question? You do the same thing regarding Jude 4 which says that Jesus Christ is our “only Master and Lord.” WJ and I ask you to say out right if Jesus is your only Master and Lord and you all dance around the question.

“In case of a will, it is necessary to prove the DEATH of the one who made it, because a will is in effect only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.” Heb. 9:16-17 NIV

The Testator is UNDISPUTEABLY our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the one WHO MADE THE WILL WHO ALSO DIED PUTTING THE WILL INTO EFFECT!  

Aren't you even a little fearful that you deny your “only Master and Lord” who is also your Testator?

thinker

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