God is spirit and all present??

[kerwin]

Jesus teaches us that God is Spirit in John 4:24.  He also teaches us something about Spirit in this same verse for we know God is spirit in the same way we are to worship God.  We are told in Galatians 5:16 that if we live by the Spirit we will not fulfill the desires of the sinful nature, i.e. we will not sin.   In other words God is the Spirit of Righteousness.  In 1 John 4:8 we are taught the same thing when John teaches us that God is Love.  

This clearly seems to be one dimension of God but it does teach us that when we truly love as God loves then God is living through us.  Still I believe God is more than love as he has intellect, wisdom, and other traits as well as being loving.  In addition I do not believe he is the Spirit though the Spirit is part of him and is his active force as scripture declares there are only one God and only one Spirit.

Colossians 1:15 teaches us God is invisible and Jesus is his image even though he is visible. That obviously means an invisible trait of Jesus is the image of God.  As God has never sinned and Jesus has never sinned that trait appears to be a good candidate.   We are also called to do the same when we are called to mature in Christ.

In short there is no evidence that God has a physical presence as righteousness, intellect, and wisdom are all immaterial.

Considering all this we are taught that we all live and have our being in God, Acts 17:28.  This sounds like it is speaking of a material being but we should think of the  spiritual which has no borders as it has no real physical presence.   It appears from this teaching that the physical exist requires God in order to exist and that God is all present.

Psalms 139:7-18 testify that there is nowhere to hide from God’s spirit as God is always there no matter where you go.  It also states he eyes watch one as God forms them in their mother’s womb.   We also learn he ordains all of our days before we are even born, so we can conclude time is not a barrier to him.

Isaiah 66:1-2 states that heaven is his throne and earth his footstool and therefore that is nowhere that will house him as he created it all and brought it into being.  In this it sounds much like the teaching in Acts 17:28.

1 Kings 8:27-30 tells us even the heavens, even the highest one cannot contain him and so how much less the temple that Solomon built.  Solomon thus asks that God will have his eye opened to the place that bears his Name so that he will hear the supplications of his people when they pray toward it.  Even after stating God contained in any of the heavens the king states “Hear from heaven, your dwelling place”.

So since God is everywhere and he cannot be contained in the heavens then why is heaven called his dwelling place?

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Kerwin,
Bible is ambiguous in describing God. It seems there are two such opinions. As I often utter here that our Bible is of poly-opinion on God and His nature. Here are some references to corporeal nature of God of the Bible;

If we want to know what kind of being God is, who better to believe than those who have actually seen Him? There are multiple Biblical examples, such as:

The prophet Ezekiel, who described his vision of God by saying he saw “high above all, upon the throne, a form in human likeness” (Ezekiel 1:26, New English Bible.).

Stephen, whose last words were, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God” (Acts 7:56.).
John, who saw God sitting on the throne in heaven (Rev. 4:2).

Moses was not allowed to see God’s face in one vision (God was angry at the Israelites at the time), but God said he would “cover thee with my hand while I pass by; and I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen” (Exodus 33:22–23).

Moses did see God previously, however: “the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend” (Exodus 33:11).

Jacob “wrestled a man” one night in the wilderness, and after this encounter “Jacob called the name of the place Peniel [Hebrew for “the face of God”]: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved” (Genesis 32:24–32).

As Dr. Martin notes in his article “Maimonides – Saint and Heretic,” many Jews today have abandoned the biblical idea that God has a body and accepted the heretical view of two of their most famous sages, Maimonides and Jacob Luria, that God cannot have a body. “In all places of the Holy Scriptures (and also among the Jewish Sages of the Talmudic period) God is defined in anthropomorphic terms. That is, He is consistently described as being like humans in appearance. … When man observes this image of Deity [for example in vision], the Scriptures show that God looks like all humans. This is the scriptural teaching. Indeed, the design of the Holy Temple at Jerusalem showed the anthropomorphic appearance of God.”

Other references;

“Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
whom no man has seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power
everlasting. Amen.” (1 Timothy 6:16)

“Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are
made after the similitude of God.” (James 3:9)

“For the invisible things of him [of God] from the creation of the world are clearly
seen , being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)

Another argument:

Is God merely by nature “spirit”? The ancient Israelites believed that God's spirit has bodily form. Moreover, there is no reason to believe that spirit is somehow contrary to material states. God consistently revealed himself in human form in the Bible. Terence Fretheim reviewed the appearances of God in the Old Testament and finds it stirking that God *always* appears in human form. (“The Suffering of God”, he notes Exo. 24:10, God appears and under his *feet* is a work of sapphire, God also ate and drank with Israel – implying a physical body. Amos 7:7 and 9:1 speak of God standing. Isaiah 6:1 says God was sitting on a throne. Jeremiah 1:9 says God put forth his *hand* and touched his throne. in RSV Ezekiel 1:26 Ezekiel sees God seated above the “likeness of a throne…a likeness as it were in human form.” RSV Numbers 12:8 tells of speaking *mouth to mouth* and “of the form of the Lord”. RSV Exodus 33:21-23 refers to the place by God and to God's back and hand. Acts 7:56 says Christ was on the right hand of God.)

The fact that Israel believed God has a human form is quite clear from Gen 1:26 where God makes man in their image (demut), and their likeness (tselem). That this image and likeness refers to *genetic* resemblance is made clear from Gen 5:1,3 where Adam begets a son after his own likeness (tselem) after his image (demut) and called his name Seth.

But there are other scriptures which may support your views. What do you say?

Love and peace
Adam

[kerwin]

Adam,

I have to be brief but would like to make a few points.

1)Taking prophecy as literal is not necessary a good idea as it is highly symbolic.
2)Stephen is actually said to have seen God’s glory at first and then that glory is called God later or similar to what Solomon said in his dedication of the First Temple.
3)Angels are often referred to as God in the Old Testament.

I believe I addressed all the points you raised.  Perhaps we can discuss them in detail more in the future.

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam……….if ancient Hebrews believed GOD had a Human Face , why was the first Pictorial language of the Hebrews drawn with the Head of an OX with a Staff next to it, the word for God Them? Adam GOD is SPIRIT and you can not see Spirit (intellect) You can only see its effects like the wind for instances as Jesus described it, Jesus himself said no man has seen God except he who is from God, and how is he shown to us in what way (he has :DECLARED: Him) . John also say no one has ever seen GOD at any time. We must see him by his manifestations in our lives in creation and with the eye of the Mind, we see him in that way brother. God is SPIRITUALLY Perceived and can be seen in what he created Like a Burning Bush that Spoke to Moses, Or even through Angels or even through Man. He was present (IN) Jesus through the Anointing he recieved. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Adam………………………..gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2010,22:23)

Adam, I have to be brief but would like to make a few points. 1)Taking prophecy as literal is not necessary a good idea as it is highly symbolic. 2)Stephen is actually said to have seen God’s glory at first and then that glory is called God later or similar to what Solomon said in his dedication of the First Temple. 3)Angels are often referred to as God in the Old Testament. I believe I addressed all the points you raised.  Perhaps we can discuss them in detail more in the future.

Hi brother Kerwin,
Thanks for your reply to my post above. I have not quoted any prophecies in my post in fact I have brought out some scriptural proofs showing how God is of form like that of human. It is not mine only Hebrew scriptures. Angels were different from God as I have shown in my proof scriptures. Certainly God must be having glory that doesn't mean he doesn't have any form. If he doesn't have any form how can he has a throne and he sits on that too?

As I told you Torah was written by different people to suit their community. So too they have different opinions on God. On one side some scriptures say God was seen and on other side some scriptures deny that. For more information you can read Friedman's “Who wrote Bible?' Torah was written by four different writers like J, E, P and D. I don't take scriptures literally but many of us here they take it like that. Please see this difference.

Peace to you
Adam

[kerwin]

Adam,

I am not very familiar that scripture has derivatives as historical events told by different authors often sound different.   I also cannot say if those differences are important given my lack of knowledge.  It does not surprise me that different tribes have different viewpoints depending what they believed to be important.  There were probably more than four as there are 12 tribes and even one of those was split in two.

Ezekiel and Revelations are both prophecies.  

How can God have a throne in heaven, even the highest heaven, If he cannot be contained within that heaven?  Seeing that cannot be I would then say that the most reasonable explanation is that he does not actually sit on it but that the highest heaven is his seat of power just like the First Temple served as his house.  The Jewish people believe it to be the figurative “footstool” of his presence.

So it appears that Friedman claims there were different sects in the ancients Hebrews.  That would not surprise me.  Still both modern Jews and the writers of scripture agree that God is both spirit and invisible.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2010,00:17)

Adam……….if ancient Hebrews believed GOD had a Human Face , why was the first Pictorial language of the Hebrews drawn with the Head of an OX with a Staff next to it, the word for God Them?  Adam GOD is SPIRIT and you can not see Spirit (intellect) You can only see its effects like the wind for instances as Jesus described it, Jesus himself said no man has seen God except he who is from God, and how is he shown to us in what way  (he has :DECLARED: Him) . John also say no one has ever seen GOD at any time. We must see him by his manifestations in our lives in creation and with the eye of the Mind, we see him in that way brother. God is SPIRITUALLY Perceived and can be seen in what he created Like a Burning Bush that Spoke to Moses, Or even through Angels or even through Man. He was present (IN) Jesus through the Anointing he recieved.  IMO peace and love to you and yours Adam………………………..gene

Hi brother Gene,
Thanks for your response to my post above. In fact the Hebrew words “Elohim” or “El” were borrowed from Pagan Semitic languages. It may be true as per your statement above that the word God represented by Ox and a staff by its side. But the Bible varies in its description about God including O.T. As I have stated in my post to brother Kerwin the Torah and other books in O.T were written by many writers like J,E, P, D etc from different communities of Israel. They believed God in their own perspective. As I also stated some set of scriptures claim that God could be seen by humans where as other set of scriptures completely deny that.

Please see that our Bible is not uniform in its concepts on God. It is purely human book but not any God inspired inerrant Holy book as many of us claim here. We have to see its variations and contradictions on various concepts. If you want please read the well written book of Friedman called “Who wrote the Bible?”

Thanks and love to you
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam…………Have you ever went to the Jeff Beaner site he is a Hebrew Scholar and give the pictorial language of the Hebrews, Good site. Also i will try to get a copy of “who wrote the bible” I do believe it was indeed made up of many different perspectives , But i also believe it was (ORIGINALLY) GOD Breathed> for the most part but corrupted in part by Gnostic and trinitarians translators over the centuries. Just the problem of translating from one language to another is trouble enough but when you go from Aramaic or Hebrew to Greek to English , that i believe really compounds the confusion. But with the Spirit (intellect) of GOD we can come to see the true meanings i believe. IMO

peace and love to you and your Adam………………………………gene

[kerwin]

Adam.

I am unsure why you believe the fact that Canaanites and Israelis have the same name for God in common is relevant to the issue being discussed.  Have you considered it may be just because of the actual definition of El?  The Wikipedia entry for El (deity) seems to define it as God.

Whatever the case, it does not aid in resolving the issue from what I observe.

Do you believe the books of Revelations and Ezekiel are books of prophecy?

Friedman cannot be cross examined.

[terraricca]

Kerwin

Heaven is Gods dwellings, this is not the heaven you see from earth,

but my question is ;if God is every where how do we know??and how can we be sure???

and one more ;how can he be everywhere???

Pierre

[terraricca]

Kerwin

you say;;Still I believe God is more than love as he has intellect, wisdom, and other traits as well as being loving. In addition I do not believe he is the Spirit though the Spirit is part of him and is his active force as scripture declares there are only one God and only one Spirit.

======================================
what is GOD S LOVE ?

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

God is the love that obeys the command to love your neighbor as yourself. If you obey that command then you have God but if you do not then you do not have God. If it is possible for an unbeliever to love as God commands then they have God when they do. I am not sure it is possible.

The sum of the righteous requirements of the law is Love.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 10 2010,03:56)

Pierre, God is the love that obeys the command to love your neighbor as yourself.  If you obey that command then you have God but if you do not then you do not have God.  If it is possible for an unbeliever to love as God commands then they have God when they do.  I am not sure it is possible. The sum of the righteous requirements of the law is Love.

kerwin

is God in obedience to his own law ?? is this not what you say??

you tell what the love does ,not what it is,right??

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

I am stating that God among other things is the actual emotion of love as he intends us to love, 1 John 4:16.   Since he is love he cannot not love or even be tempted not to love.

To love others as yourself in the way God intends you to is right because if you always love then you do all that is right.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 10 2010,13:16)

Pierre, I am stating that God among other things is the actual emotion of love as he intends us to love, 1 John 4:16.   Since he is love he cannot not love or even be tempted not to love. To love others as yourself in the way God intends you to is right because if you always love then you do all that is right.

Kerwin

is the love of God an emotion??

Pierre

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2010,02:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 10 2010,13:16) Pierre, I am stating that God among other things is the actual emotion of love as he intends us to love, 1 John 4:16.   Since he is love he cannot not love or even be tempted not to love. To love others as yourself in the way God intends you to is right because if you always love then you do all that is right. Kerwin is the love of God an emotion?? Pierre

Pierre,

From what I understand it is an emotion as well as a desire with some non-emotional effects.

[terraricca]

Kerwin

you say;;From what I understand it is an emotion as well as a desire with some non-emotional effects.
===========================================================================

well now those are two items ;so what would be the emotion part?? and what is the non – emotion part ??

Pierre

[Baker]

Adam! You stated that God is like us Human, flesh? But this Scriptures says this in

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I don't understand why you even think that??

Peace and Love Irene

[kerwin]

Pierre,

My conviction is that Scripture means both as the definition that fits is “affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor.” The “concern” is the desire part while the “affectionate” is emotion part. In other words desire that stems from strong and benevolent affection for your God, your fellow man, and yourself in that order. The desire when conceived gives birth to action.
The non-emotional effects are the changes it brings about in the use of the talents God gives to each of us. There may be more as I am limited in my understanding.

Mind, I am not sure if I have the nature of God quite right which is why I hope to have input on the matter.

I used a definition for “love” from dictionary.com that best fits the usage in scripture.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2010,01:08)

Pierre, My conviction is that Scripture means both as the definition that fits is “affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor.”  The “concern” is the desire part while the “affectionate” is emotion part.  In other words desire that stems from strong and benevolent affection for your God, your fellow man, and yourself in that order.  The desire when conceived gives birth to action.   The non-emotional effects are the changes it brings about in the use of the talents God gives to each of us.  There may be more as I am limited in my understanding. Mind, I am not sure if I have the nature of God quite right which is why I hope to have input on the matter. I used a definition for “love” from dictionary.com that best fits the usage in scripture.

Kerwin

at this point you need to read more scriptures ,

and get rid of un scriptural views ,or you never come to know God,your savior,

Pierre

[Author]

Posts