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Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 27 2010,21:01) I'm confused: Is Georg Male or Female?
Hi JustAskin,Georg and Irene(Georg's wife) both use the same teddy bear looking Avatar.
They always sign thier name at the bottom of their Post's, that's how you tell the difference; OK?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWJ, thinker, and all
I think the problem most of you have, is to understand correctly the meaning of “judgment”. It does not mean sentencing, handing out punishments; it does not mean “sitting in” judgment.
Jesus said, “for judgment I have come into the world” John 9:39; if that meant to punish sinners, how would that fit with John 3:17? “God did NOT send his son to condemn the world”.
You also read in 1 Pet. 4:17, “judgment must begin with the house of God”, the “house” are the saints; did Jesus punish them, or did he teach them? Why did they have to learn first? because they would rule with him, and assist him in teaching the rest of the world later.
So why does the Father judgeth/teaches no man, but has commited all judging/teaching to the son, John 5:22? because of sin. God is so holy and pure, he can not even look on sin, it is sin that separates us from God, Is. 59:2. That is why Jesus has been “given all” authority to judge/teach.
If Jesus were ruling now, whom is he ruling over? his kingdom has not yet began; we are however in the final stages of the destruction of Satan's world.
This time we are living in since Jesus died, the gospel period, has only been for the selection of the saints, that's why the gospel was to be preached for a “witness”, so that they which were predestined to be called, would hear it, and could respond to it, Rom. 8:28-30. The rest of the world will be judged/taught in the millennium, were the saints will assist Christ in the teaching.
WJ, what you say about Rev. 22, that is after the millennium, and all enemies will have been destroyed, and God will dwell with men.
When Jesus ascended to heaven after he finished the first phase of his work, to die for our sins, God “highly exalted” him, Phil. 2:9; how? by setting him at the right hand of his, Eph. 1:20, and Rev. 3:21, God's throne; right hand is highest position of honor. Would God have done that if Jesus was God?
When, after the millennium, Jesus turns everything back over to the Father, 1 Cor. 15:28, he by no means will have to give up his throne, why? because of Is. 9:7; the increase of God's kingdom will have “no” end. What does that mean? it means that after this earth is all filled up, God will have to make a new world for people to live on, and will put one of the 144000 kings in charge, and so on, without end, and Jesus is the King of kings for all eternity.
That is why God has created this wast universe, to be inhabited.
Our earth, and we his people, are just the beginning of his plan.
Please, do give yourselves time to digest this, don't just glance over it, think about it.Georg
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,04:33) Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God because he has ALL Authority and Power and posseses ALL things and by him all things consist.
Hi WJ,Can you tell me the verse that says Jesus “sits” in the throne of God?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,07:06) Only God gets Glory for his works!
Hi WJ,Why do you assume that when Jesus receives glory it is God's glory? Is God the only One who has glory in the Bible?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,05:26) never said “same as” Father God. I have always said “equal with” Father God. Christ is OVER ALL (Rom.9:5)
The Father is OVER ALL (Eph. 4:6)
This means “equal with” as I said in my opening post. You want to put words into my mouth.
Do the math Nick.
Hi Thinker,What about, “the Father is greater”?
What about Philippians 2:6, (Jesus) “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped…”?
And when you quote Hebrews 1:6 over and over, you never include 1:7, “…therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions…”. Even as God calls Jesus a god, it is made very clear that it was Jesus' God who set him above his companions. Do any of these sound like “equality” to you?
peace and love
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,05:50) Jack Really. Notice the little “g” for god of this world.
Satan truly is a god of this worldly system. But Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Capitalizing the “g” in “god of this age” wouldn't make Satan the Almighty any more that capitalizing it when Jesus is referred to as a god makes him the Almighty.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,05:56) NH That is a lie. God doesn't say any are God, but only speaks of them as false gods like men that shall die. Pss 82:6, 7
YHWH says there is no other Gods and that you are not to even mention the name of other so-called gods.
Yet he as well as the Apostles call Jesus God and says his throne is forever and commands the Angels to worship him.
How do you explain this conundrum that false religions and doctrines of men have?
WJ
Hi WJ,How about John 10:34-35?
Quote 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[Psalm 82:6]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— peace and love,
mikeEDJ,
Thanks for the heads-up.Mike,
Jesus does indeed sit in the throne of God (but that doesn't make Him God – One can't 'become' God! and God says 'beside me there is No GOD')
However, Jesus has his own throne and it is His throne that the elected ones occupy and rule with Him over His own Kingdom after He hands back God's Kingdom (Which is the Kingdom above all kingdoms, above Jesus' kingdom, above the kingdom of Mankind…)(See Rev 3:21)
Try not to think of 'Throne' in a physical sense. 'Throne' means something like 'place of Rulership'.
In the physical world this is like a highly decorative and ornamental Chair but, of course, God is Spirit!!Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,08:47) Georg said: Quote Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though Oh my Lord! Lay not this sin to Georg's charge!
thinker
Hi Thinker,Georg has it right on both counts. Jesus wasn't originally created immortal. Romans 6:9 says:
Quote 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. And Christ will begin to reign only when the events in Revelation begin to take place. ie-being deemed worthy to open the scroll, etc. For right now, Satan is in charge of this wicked world, and we must resist him through Spirit to have the hope of living under Christ's rule. IMO
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,23:18)
Hi WJ,
Nonsense.Jesus is not the only son of God as others are shown often in scripture-Adam, the jewish people, angels etc.
But he is the MONOGENES son.
NHNo what you preach is nonsense.
Jesus is the “Only Son of God”!
He is the Only Second Adam!
Is there any other second Adam?
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, “[the only] (monogenēs)” son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. Luke 7:12
For he had “[one only] (monogenēs)” daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him. Luke 8:42
And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine “[only child] (monogenēs)“. Luke 9:38
Sorry Nick. He is not like us in every way!
WJ
Mike,
WJ's conundrum is on a conundrum to the uninitiated and simple minded…no pointers to anyone!
Noone is called 'God' meaning 'YHWH' except YHWH.
Noone is called 'LORD' except 'YHWH' God.The word 'GOD' in any capital case is a TITLE, not a NAME that means 'the principal object/entity of worship, or one to whom supreme power and authority is attributed'
Because there can be, in effect, many Gods or varying types (a King can be called God in an informal manner:e.g. 'Thy throne, O God, is forever…' meaning, 'thy throne, O Mighty Ruler…', or Mankind itself can be God: 'For God [the only true GOD] says [of man], 'ye are gods')
To distinguish the One True God, who is identified Himself as Jehovah (YHWH, The 'I AM') the scripture writers usually capitalise the 'G' and there are other variations. The important thing to remember is to read with discernment, wisdom and understanding through the Hoky Spirit.
And remember that the there is, and can only be, One True God, who is Jehovah God.With this knowledge no question is beyond understanding and certainly poses No Conundrum!
Try this:
Why does time fly like an arrow but fruit fly like a banana!But,
OK, lets try again
WJ, thinker, and all
I think the problem most of you have, is to understand correctly the meaning of “judgment”. It does not mean sentencing, handing out punishments; it does not mean “sitting in” judgment.
Jesus said, “for judgment I have come into the world” John 9:39; if that meant to punish sinners, how would that fit with John 3:17? “God did NOT send his son to condemn the world”.
You also read in 1 Pet. 4:17, “judgment must begin with the house of God”, the “house” are the saints; did Jesus punish them, or did he teach them? Why did they have to learn first? because they would rule with him, and assist him in teaching the rest of the world later.
So why does the Father judgeth/teaches no man, but has commited all judging/teaching to the son, John 5:22? because of sin. God is so holy and pure, he can not even look on sin, it is sin that separates us from God, Is. 59:2. That is why Jesus has been “given all” authority to judge/teach.
If Jesus were ruling now, whom is he ruling over? his kingdom has not yet began; we are however in the final stages of the destruction of Satan's world.
This time we are living in since Jesus died, the gospel period, has only been for the selection of the saints, that's why the gospel was to be preached for a “witness”, so that they which were predestined to be called, would hear it, and could respond to it, Rom. 8:28-30. The rest of the world will be judged/taught in the millennium, were the saints will assist Christ in the teaching.
WJ, what you say about Rev. 22, that is after the millennium, and all enemies will have been destroyed, and God will dwell with men.
When Jesus ascended to heaven after he finished the first phase of his work, to die for our sins, God “highly exalted” him, Phil. 2:9; how? by setting him at the right hand of his, Eph. 1:20, and Rev. 3:21, God's throne; right hand is highest position of honor. Would God have done that if Jesus was God?
When, after the millennium, Jesus turns everything back over to the Father, 1 Cor. 15:28, he by no means will have to give up his throne, why? because of Is. 9:7; the increase of God's kingdom will have “no” end. What does that mean? it means that after this earth is all filled up, God will have to make a new world for people to live on, and will put one of the 144000 kings in charge, and so on, without end, and Jesus is the King of kings for all eternity.
That is why God has created this wast universe, to be inhabited.
Our earth, and we his people, are just the beginning of his plan.
Please, do give yourselves time to digest this, don't just glance over it, think about it.Georg
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2010,03:06) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,08:47) Georg said: Quote Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though Oh my Lord! Lay not this sin to Georg's charge!
thinker
Hi Thinker,Georg has it right on both counts. Jesus wasn't originally created immortal. Romans 6:9 says:
Quote 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. And Christ will begin to reign only when the events in Revelation begin to take place. ie-being deemed worthy to open the scroll, etc. For right now, Satan is in charge of this wicked world, and we must resist him through Spirit to have the hope of living under Christ's rule. IMO
peace and love,
mike
Mike,Jesus is seated at the right hand of God NOW. The book of Revelation has been fulfilled. The opening statements say that the things which John saw would “SHORTLY” take place. Uh….it's been over two thousand years now.
Any way, Georg said that Christ is “over all” and that Paul blesses God for this. If Christ is not reigning yet, then who is He “over?”
Christ was not created. Only His flesh was created.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 28 2010,03:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,23:18)
Hi WJ,
Nonsense.Jesus is not the only son of God as others are shown often in scripture-Adam, the jewish people, angels etc.
But he is the MONOGENES son.
NHNo what you preach is nonsense.
Jesus is the “Only Son of God”!
He is the Only Second Adam!
Is there any other second Adam?
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, “[the only] (monogenēs)” son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. Luke 7:12
For he had “[one only] (monogenēs)” daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him. Luke 8:42
And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine “[only child] (monogenēs)“. Luke 9:38
Sorry Nick. He is not like us in every way!
WJ
Keith,I can't help but love this brother! I have said many times that anti-trinitarians only give lip service to Christ's Lordship. My assessment is proving to be accurate. Now some are saying that He is not reigning now.
I guess they think that He sits at God's right hand twiddling His thumbs.
Their nonsense will certainly help the hundreds of non-participant readers make up their minds.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 28 2010,03:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,23:18)
Hi WJ,
Nonsense.Jesus is not the only son of God as others are shown often in scripture-Adam, the jewish people, angels etc.
But he is the MONOGENES son.
NHNo what you preach is nonsense.
Jesus is the “Only Son of God”!
He is the Only Second Adam!
Is there any other second Adam?
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, “[the only] (monogenēs)” son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. Luke 7:12
For he had “[one only] (monogenēs)” daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him. Luke 8:42
And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine “[only child] (monogenēs)“. Luke 9:38
Sorry Nick. He is not like us in every way!
WJ
Hi WJ,
So now MONOGENES in relationship to Jesus just means ONLY?
You stand alone.Hi TT,
Jesus told folks his kingdom was not of this world.
It is the Kingdom of God and of heaven.But he rules now in those few who have obeyed him and submit to his Spirit.
He is appointed lord of all and he will return soon as ruler of the renewed earth from the throne of David in Jerusalem.Georg said:
Quote When Jesus ascended to heaven after he finished the first phase of his work, to die for our sins, God “highly exalted” him, Phil. 2:9; how? by setting him at the right hand of his, Eph. 1:20, and Rev. 3:21, God's throne; right hand is highest position of honor. Would God have done that if Jesus was God?
Now Georg! Come on now! We have addressed this a million times. Paul said that Jesus existed in the form of God but made Himself nothing and took upon Himself the form of a servant and became in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man he humbled Himself and became obedient unto death. THEN God highly exalted Him.You guys always start your commentary of Philippians 2 from “God has highly exalted Him.” But Paul starts from “He made Himself nothing….Therefore, God has highly exalted Him.”
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2010,05:00) Hi TT,
Jesus told folks his kingdom was not of this world.
It is the Kingdom of God and of heaven.But he rules now in those few who have obeyed him and submit to his Spirit.
He is appointed lord of all and he will return soon as ruler of the renewed earth from the throne of David in Jerusalem.
So you disagree with Georg who said that Christ does not rule AT ALL now. Good!thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2010,12:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 28 2010,03:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2010,23:18)
Hi WJ,
Nonsense.Jesus is not the only son of God as others are shown often in scripture-Adam, the jewish people, angels etc.
But he is the MONOGENES son.
NHNo what you preach is nonsense.
Jesus is the “Only Son of God”!
He is the Only Second Adam!
Is there any other second Adam?
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, “[the only] (monogenēs)” son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her. Luke 7:12
For he had “[one only] (monogenēs)” daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him. Luke 8:42
And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine “[only child] (monogenēs)“. Luke 9:38
Sorry Nick. He is not like us in every way!
WJ
Hi WJ,
So now MONOGENES in relationship to Jesus just means ONLY?
You stand alone.
NickNo I don't stand alone.
Luke who is inspired by the Holy Spirit and wrote the third Gospel stands with me in Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38.
Only child or Only son = Strong's G3439 – monogenēs
1) single of its kind, only
The KJ is missleading…
A better translation for John 1:18 does not use the word “Begotten”…
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known. John 1:18
“Only Begotten” is misleading.
The textual problem μονογενὴς θεός (monogenh” qeo”, “the only God”) versus ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός (Jo monogenh” Juio”, “the only son”) is a notoriously difficult one. Only one letter would have differentiated the readings in the mss, since both words would have been contracted as nomina sacra: thus qMs or uMs. Externally, there are several variants, but they can be grouped essentially by whether they read θεός or υἱός. The majority of mss, especially the later ones (A C3 Θ Ψ Ë1,13 Ï lat), read ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός. Ì75 א1 33 pc have ὁ μονογενὴς θεός, while the anarthrous μονογενὴς θεός is found in Ì66 א* B C* L pc. The articular θεός is almost certainly a scribal emendation to the anarthrous θεός, for θεός without the article is a much harder reading. The external evidence thus strongly supports μονογενὴς θεός. Internally, although υἱός fits the immediate context more readily, θεός is much more difficult. As well, θεός also explains the origin of the other reading (υἱός), because it is difficult to see why a scribe who found υἱός in the text he was copying would alter it to θεός. Scribes would naturally change the wording to υἱός however, since μονογενὴς υἱός is a uniquely Johannine christological title (cf. John 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9). But θεός as the older and more difficult reading is preferred. As for translation, it makes the most sense to see the word θεός as in apposition to μονογενής, and the participle ὁ ὤν (Jo wn) as in apposition to θεός, giving in effect three descriptions of Jesus rather than only two. (B. D. Ehrman, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, 81, suggests that it is nearly impossible and completely unattested in the NT for an adjective followed immediately by a noun that agrees in gender, number, and case, to be a substantival adjective: “when is an adjective ever used substantivally when it immediately precedes a noun of the same inflection?” This, however, is an overstatement. First, as Ehrman admits, μονογενής in John 1:14 is substantival. And since it is an established usage for the adjective in this context, one might well expect that the author would continue to use the adjective substantivally four verses later. Indeed, μονογενής is already moving toward a crystallized substantival adjective in the NT [cf. Luke 9:38; Heb 11:17]; in patristic Greek, the process continued [cf. PGL 881 s.v. 7]. Second, there are several instances in the NT in which a substantival adjective is followed by a noun with which it has complete concord: cf., e.g., Rom 1:30; Gal 3:9; 1 Tim 1:9; 2 Pet 2:5.) The modern translations which best express this are the NEB (margin) and TEV. Several things should be noted: μονογενής alone, without υἱός, can mean “only son,” “unique son,” “unique one,” etc. (see 1:14). Furthermore, θεός is anarthrous. As such it carries qualitative force much like it does in 1:1c, where θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (qeo” hn Jo logo”) means “the Word was fully God” or “the Word was fully of the essence of deity.” Finally, ὁ ὤν occurs in Rev 1:4, 8; 4:8, 11:17; and 16:5, but even more significantly in the LXX of Exod 3:14. Putting all of this together leads to the translation given in the text. NET
So no Nick I am not alone but it seems that you have put your trust in your own doctrine rather than the scritpures.
Trash the manmade Idea that Jesus is like us in every way. It is a heretical concept that steals away the Glory that only Jesus shares with the Father as the “Only (Monogenes) Son!
Blessings WJ
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