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DB………..But Islam has many sects who murder and Kill innocent children and the old and young alike, they slaughter each other in there own streets and towns, They mistreat their women and beat them in public, What makes them any different then the Catholic and Protestant “Christian” religions in Ireland and whose history is full of violence and murders, I see no difference. All the religions like Islam and Christian say they truly believe in GOD, But what do we really see, non of them are Practicing what Jesus told us to, “Love your enemy's do good unto them the persecute you and say all manor of things against you. But you are justifying the violence used in your religion, This i do not agree with , not in Islam or Christianity. I believe (BOTH) are Wrong and two wrongs do not make a right. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,12:24) DB………..But Islam has many sects who murder and Kill innocent children and the old and young alike, they slaughter each other in there own streets and towns, They mistreat their women and beat them in public, What makes them any different then the Catholic and Protestant “Christian” religions in Ireland and whose history is full of violence and murders, I see no difference. All the religions like Islam and Christian say they truly believe in GOD, But what do we really see, non of them are Practicing what Jesus told us to, “Love your enemy's do good unto them the persecute you and say all manor of things against you. But you are justifying the violence used in your religion, This i do not agree with , not in Islam or Christianity. I believe (BOTH) are Wrong and two wrongs do not make a right. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
There are millions of Muslims and Christians who conduct themselves properly. As far as violence is concerned although I do not like violence it is not unbiblical at all.Deuteronomy 2:33-35 (King James Version)
33And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
34And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:
35Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.
Deuteronomy 13:14-16 (King James Version)
15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
Joshua 6:20-22 (King James Version)
20So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
As I said Violence never seems to be right but I am not God so I am not to know the deep wisdom in it, surely if it was not meant to be it would not be.
Most people when they see violence including atheists see it as repulsive infact most atheists mention violence as being caused by religion. But God's ways are higher than ours and violence works in mysterious ways because some use violence on behalf of God and some are violent against the laws of God.
What has been the most amazing thing to me is that Islam is the fastest growing religion despite the bad press.
At some point the Christians began fighting back and became just as brutal as anyone but we see from scriptures at times God commanded his people to Fight and Kill and not just win but kill and destroy everything including the trees. In-fact God was angry with Saul when Saul did not kill the king of a people they killed and Samuel went and cut the kings head off.
1 Samuel 15:31-33 (King James Version)
31So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.
32Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
33And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
I see Islam as no different then Christianity in that they are both revealed religions, with scripture purported to be God's word and so answers and justifications for all manners of behaviour are based on the interpretation of these supposedly Holy texts. So for the Koran I answer the same as I would for the Bible in the words of Thomas Payne, “Revelation then, so far as the term has relation between God and man, can only be applied to something which God reveals of his will to man; but though the power of the Almighty to make such a communication is necessarily admitted, because to that power all things are possible, yet, the thing so revealed (if any thing ever was revealed, and which, by the bye, it is impossible to prove) is revelation to the person only to whom it is made. His account of it to another is not revelation; and whoever puts faith in that account, puts it in the man from whom the account comes; and that man may have been deceived, or may have dreamed it; or he may be an impostor and may lie. There is no possible criterion whereby to judge of the truth of what he tells; for even the morality of it would be no proof of revelation. In all such cases, the proper answer should be, “When it is revealed to me, I will believe it to be revelation; but it is not and cannot be incumbent upon me to believe it to be revelation before; neither is it proper that I should take the word of man as the word of God, and put man in the place of God…”
DB……….You are justifying these murders of Islam and Christianity, But what you are failing to see is that the (OLD COVENANT) was a (CARNAL COVENANT) for CARNAL MINDS, but the (NEW COVENANT) IS A Spiritual COVENANT OF LOVE AND PEACE AND HAS FAR BETTER PROMISES. The COVENANT OF DEATH as described, is a thing of the past, so there is (NO) justification for it (NOW). You can't hold on to it and justify the acts of violence of modern Christianity or of Modern Islam, You keep quoting from the Old Testament when you try to justify the violence of your Islam religion, But we are not of the OLD Testament But of the NEW, where violence is condemned, You must come out of that violent religion and follow what Jesus said, Love your enemies and do good to them who despite fully use you and say all manor of things against you falsely. Justifying any violent behavior is (NOT) of GOD. IMO
peace and love………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 22 2009,02:40) DB……….You are justifying these murders of Islam and Christianity, But what you are failing to see is that the (OLD COVENANT) was a (CARNAL COVENANT) for CARNAL MINDS, but the (NEW COVENANT) IS A Spiritual COVENANT OF LOVE AND PEACE AND HAS FAR BETTER PROMISES. The COVENANT OF DEATH as described, is a thing of the past, so there is (NO) justification for it (NOW). You can't hold on to it and justify the acts of violence of modern Christianity or of Modern Islam, You keep quoting from the Old Testament when you try to justify the violence of your Islam religion, But we are not of the OLD Testament But of the NEW, where violence is condemned, You must come out of that violent religion and follow what Jesus said, Love your enemies and do good to them who despite fully use you and say all manor of things against you falsely. Justifying any violent behavior is (NOT) of GOD. IMO peace and love………………….gene
Then you must believe God changes. But keep in mind even the end shall be filled with violence and the unbelievers in the end will be punished and no good will be done to them, right?If you believe in Hell then you must believe in Violence for what is more violent than Hell?
Even for those who say that God will not put people in a place called hell but will simply condemn them to everlasting death that is still punishment and violent and not good to them who resisted the will of God.
The position of Jesus at the time of his mission was to refrain from violence as it would have been of no use for the few Christians there were to be killed which would have stopped the spreading of The Gospel. This is no different than the fact that the Jews did not fight or be violent as captives in Egypt but when they were free from Egypt and in a better position they did fight and they did kill.
As Solomon wrote:
Ecclesiastes 3:2-4 (King James Version)
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
We can not ignore the scriptures simply to feel good about ourselves the more we deny what the Lord God has said from the beginning the further we remove our selves from the truth until we are in complete delusion such as this:
Lutherans to allow sexually active gays as clergy
By PATRICK CONDON
Associated Press WriterLeaders of the nation's largest Lutheran church voted Friday to allow sexually active gays and lesbians in committed relationships to serve as clergy
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 22 2009,13:05) Hi BD,
Why not accept the saviour sent by God in whom is found the eternal Spirit?
I have and I accept you to
Hi BD,
But you put yourself above Jesus and the apostles.
They spoke by the Spirit of God so of what spirit are you?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 22 2009,16:23) Hi BD,
But you put yourself above Jesus and the apostles.
They spoke by the Spirit of God so of what spirit are you?
God forbid I should do such a thing! If the Holy Spirit guides me to give a scripture to you then surely I must comply, if you disagree with such a scripture perhaps you should find ways to perceive the message meant for you instead of assuming that I am trying to undermine your faith, especially since you should know that I have expressed a great love for you.DB……….if the Holy SPIRIT was guiding your thought you would (NOT) condone Violence of any KIND, your Justification of these things reveal the thought of YOUR Heart, Jesus Our Lord told us (NOT) to do violence and even when He was being arrested He told Peter to put back His sword, Jesus done (NO) Violence neither was ANY Guile in HIM. Your God the FATHER Himself has forgiven all of us through the Blood of Jesus, “NOT ACCOUNTING THEIR SINS AGAINST THEM” Because GOD gave (CARNAL COMMANDMENTS) TO THOSE CARNAL MINDED ISRAELITES, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT HE HAS GIVEN US. Your acceptance of voilent behavior in Islam is (NOT) of GOD, Nor Jesus Christ our Lord. No True believer who has the spirit of GOD guiding His thoughts accepts Violence , because we have been called to (PEACE) not Violence , so it might be wise to examine the Spirit guiding you thoughts and really see if it is from GOD or NOT. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 23 2009,03:04) DB……….if the Holy SPIRIT was guiding your thought you would (NOT) condone Violence of any KIND, your Justification of these things reveal the thought of YOUR Heart, Jesus Our Lord told us (NOT) to do violence and even when He was being arrested He told Peter to put back His sword, Jesus done (NO) Violence neither was ANY Guile in HIM. Your God the FATHER Himself has forgiven all of us through the Blood of Jesus, “NOT ACCOUNTING THEIR SINS AGAINST THEM” Because GOD gave (CARNAL COMMANDMENTS) TO THOSE CARNAL MINDED ISRAELITES, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT HE HAS GIVEN US. Your acceptance of voilent behavior in Islam is (NOT) of GOD, Nor Jesus Christ our Lord. No True believer who has the spirit of GOD guiding His thoughts accepts Violence , because we have been called to (PEACE) not Violence , so it might be wise to examine the Spirit guiding you thoughts and really see if it is from GOD or NOT. IMO peace and love……………………………..gene
John 18 (21st Century King James Version)36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If My Kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews. But now is My Kingdom not from hence.”
This is not a statement of non-violence and neither is this
Matthew 10:33-35 (21st Century King James Version)
34″Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace, but a sword
This is not a statement of Non-violence
6:3-5 (21st Century King James Version)
4And there went out another horse that was red; and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, that they should kill one another; and there was given unto him a great sword.
As I said if you deny the violence you are denying the scriptures themselves. Isn't it God Himself that gave the power to take peace from the earth?
Hi BD,
Your are of a violent spirit then?
We, however, must be gentle as doves.
Those who live by the sword die by the swordQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2009,06:27) Hi BD,
Your are of a violent spirit then?
We, however, must be gentle as doves.
Those who live by the sword die by the sword
Isn't it God Himself that gave the power to red horse to take peace from the earth?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2009,09:42) Hi BD,
God brings judgement.
His servants are of peace.
Islam is of violent contentiousness.
So is God violent? Is this Judgement of taking peace from the earth violent or peaceful?Hi BD,
We do not judge God by His Laws or any other standards.
He lets His creation be purified in the crucible.The dross is destroyed
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2009,10:11) Hi BD,
We do not judge God by His Laws or any other standards.
He lets His creation be purified in the crucible.The dross is destroyed
How about Jesus coming to bring a sword?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2009,10:58) Hi BD,
The word divides.
Choice divides.
Yes, but Jesus said he did not come to bring peace.Nick, did Jesus come to bring peace? And if not what does that mean?
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