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It seems that mony people would love to cherry pick what they like in the bible instead of accepting the scriptures. The fact is that violence has been not only condoned by God it has in some cases been commanded it is many Christians who don't accept this part of the Holy Scriptures that make them hypocrites when they critisize The Quran for “violent” content.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,12:44) It seems that mony people would love to cherry pick what they like in the bible instead of accepting the scriptures. The fact is that violence has been not only condoned by God it has in some cases been commanded it is many Christians who don't accept this part of the Holy Scriptures that make them hypocrites when they critisize The Quran for “violent” content.
So if God asked you to kill some people, what would you do? (there is, I seem to remember, a commandment against killing)Come to that, he could just ask you to do anything that would fly in the face of established religious doctrine (e.g. the other commandments), and I assume almost anyone asked would say it couldn't be God asking, but must be Satan.
I'm not saying God doesn't or wouldn't ask these things – just curious how you resolve your stance in terms of consistency in your beliefs.
Actually the commandment is to not murder
Sometimes “violence” is required to end “violence”. Doctors take the drastic measure of removing limbs or organs to preserve the whole, not that the limb or organ wasn't wanted but failure to do this extreme measure would result in the coruption of the whole. The scriptures show that God delayed the drastic action until He was down to no other option.
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. 13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.Then with Lot and Sodom – “For I cannot do anything until you arrive there.” Preserving what could be preserved
But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Delaying until there was no other choice.
My Opinion – Wm
Hello,
The old testament and quran do have these in them. The new testament doesnt. Only in the end when evil and badness is destroyed:)
Quote (karmarie @ Aug. 24 2009,00:28) Hello, The old testament and quran do have these in them. The new testament doesnt. Only in the end when evil and badness is destroyed:)
The NT doesn't have it in there because that was not the focus of the NT. That time was similar to when the Israelites were in egypt they didn't fight anyone but when they were delivered from egypt God commanded them to fight and when they did not they were punished by having to spend 40 years in the desert:But even if you look at the covenant of circumcision it is an act of violence and it was required by God, during the last plague of Egypt one of Moses's own sons were in danger of being killed by God as well until his wife circumcised the child placing the child in covenant with God.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 24 2009,00:02) Actually the commandment is to not murder Sometimes “violence” is required to end “violence”. Doctors take the drastic measure of removing limbs or organs to preserve the whole, not that the limb or organ wasn't wanted but failure to do this extreme measure would result in the coruption of the whole. The scriptures show that God delayed the drastic action until He was down to no other option.
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. 13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.Then with Lot and Sodom – “For I cannot do anything until you arrive there.” Preserving what could be preserved
But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Delaying until there was no other choice.
My Opinion – Wm
The commandments only applied to the community of Israel. God actuallyQuote The verse translated “Thou shalt not kill” in the KJV translation, is translated “You shall not murder”2 in modern translations – because these translations represents the real meaning of the Hebrew text. The Bible in Basic English translates the phrase, “Do not put anyone to death without cause.”2 The Hebrew word used here is ratsach,3 which nearly always refers to intentional killing without cause (unless indicated otherwise by context). Hebrew law recognized accidental killing as not punishable. In fact, specific cities were designated as “cities of refuge,” so that an unintentional killer could flee to escape retribution.4 The Hebrew word for “kill” in this instance is not ratsach, but nakah, which can refer to either premeditated or unintentional killing, depending upon context.5 Other Hebrew words also can refer to killing.6-8 The punishment for murder was the death sentence.9 However, to be convicted, there needed to be at least two eyewitnesses.10 The Bible also prescribes that people have a right to defend themselves against attack and use deadly force if necessary.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.htmlNow with that being said we know for a fact that God commanded those who violate certain of His commands to be put to death.
Man sleeping sexually with another Man must be put to death
Person sleeping with an animal both must be put to death
having sex with ones close relative one must be put to deathThese are all very violent acts of stoning.
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 23 2009,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,12:44) It seems that mony people would love to cherry pick what they like in the bible instead of accepting the scriptures. The fact is that violence has been not only condoned by God it has in some cases been commanded it is many Christians who don't accept this part of the Holy Scriptures that make them hypocrites when they critisize The Quran for “violent” content.
So if God asked you to kill some people, what would you do? (there is, I seem to remember, a commandment against killing)Come to that, he could just ask you to do anything that would fly in the face of established religious doctrine (e.g. the other commandments), and I assume almost anyone asked would say it couldn't be God asking, but must be Satan.
I'm not saying God doesn't or wouldn't ask these things – just curious how you resolve your stance in terms of consistency in your beliefs.
God wouldn't ask me, He would command me and confirm to me that it is indeed Himself telling me.Satan does not confirm when misleading you because you must commit the sin yourself.
God on the other hand does confirm what He is guiding you to do because you must not/cannot commit a sin under the guidance of God.
To ALL……….All who have the LOVE of GOD in them are not given to fear and violence, but of Peace, LOVE, Power and a sound mind. The Heathens rage and are full of violence as shown by both Christianity and Islamic faiths,alike. They war because the LOVE of GOD is (NOT) in them. The OLD COVENANT IS (NOT) ANYTHING LIKE THE NEW. Justifying war and Killings by any Faith is EVIL, we are to follow Jesus our brother and some coming KING. WE will with him destory (ALL) instruments of WAR. No one can say they are of the (TRUE) FAITH and condone war and killings and beatings of innocent Children and Women. Training them to go out and blow themselves up, killing themselves as well a many of Innocent people they don't even know. ALL RELIGIONS that support WARS are not TRUE AT ALL. WE are told to come out of this evil world and have no part of it. IMO
peace and love………………….gene
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2009,04:15) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 23 2009,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,12:44) It seems that mony people would love to cherry pick what they like in the bible instead of accepting the scriptures. The fact is that violence has been not only condoned by God it has in some cases been commanded it is many Christians who don't accept this part of the Holy Scriptures that make them hypocrites when they critisize The Quran for “violent” content.
So if God asked you to kill some people, what would you do? (there is, I seem to remember, a commandment against killing)Come to that, he could just ask you to do anything that would fly in the face of established religious doctrine (e.g. the other commandments), and I assume almost anyone asked would say it couldn't be God asking, but must be Satan.
I'm not saying God doesn't or wouldn't ask these things – just curious how you resolve your stance in terms of consistency in your beliefs.
God wouldn't ask me, He would command me and confirm to me that it is indeed Himself telling me.Satan does not confirm when misleading you because you must commit the sin yourself.
God on the other hand does confirm what He is guiding you to do because you must not/cannot commit a sin under the guidance of God.
I've read news stories where people have claimed they killed someone because God told them to.Do you therefore entertain the possibility that they may have been correct to kill those people, therefore?
Mind you it's also a question of how directly you kill someone. Most people on this forum almost certainly enjoy lifestyles that are not only not available to many people currently living on the planet, but that are contributing to the ultimate slaughter of many of those same people.
Come to think of it, doesn't seem very Christian or compassionate at all.
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 24 2009,05:13) To ALL……….All who have the LOVE of GOD in them are not given to fear and violence, but of Peace, LOVE, Power and a sound mind. The Heathens rage and are full of violence as shown by both Christianity and Islamic faiths,alike. They war because the LOVE of GOD is (NOT) in them. The OLD COVENANT IS (NOT) ANYTHING LIKE THE NEW. Justifying war and Killings by any Faith is EVIL, we are to follow Jesus our brother and some coming KING. WE will with him destory (ALL) instruments of WAR. No one can say they are of the (TRUE) FAITH and condone war and killings and beatings of innocent Children and Women. Training them to go out and blow themselves up, killing themselves as well a many of Innocent people they don't even know. ALL RELIGIONS that support WARS are not TRUE AT ALL. WE are told to come out of this evil world and have no part of it. IMO peace and love………………….gene
So, do you believe that violence done to others should be tolerated by true believers. Should we stand by when a loved one is being raped or murdered or should we fight against such things?I think you don't really understand the parameters of what this topic is about.
Jesus said at the time that if his kingdom was here his servants “would” fight are you saying that you disagree with Jesus and you being his servant would refrain from violence?
So, you see two men snatching a women and start hurting her and she screams out for help, what would yo do?
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 24 2009,06:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2009,04:15) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 23 2009,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,12:44) It seems that mony people would love to cherry pick what they like in the bible instead of accepting the scriptures. The fact is that violence has been not only condoned by God it has in some cases been commanded it is many Christians who don't accept this part of the Holy Scriptures that make them hypocrites when they critisize The Quran for “violent” content.
So if God asked you to kill some people, what would you do? (there is, I seem to remember, a commandment against killing)Come to that, he could just ask you to do anything that would fly in the face of established religious doctrine (e.g. the other commandments), and I assume almost anyone asked would say it couldn't be God asking, but must be Satan.
I'm not saying God doesn't or wouldn't ask these things – just curious how you resolve your stance in terms of consistency in your beliefs.
God wouldn't ask me, He would command me and confirm to me that it is indeed Himself telling me.Satan does not confirm when misleading you because you must commit the sin yourself.
God on the other hand does confirm what He is guiding you to do because you must not/cannot commit a sin under the guidance of God.
I've read news stories where people have claimed they killed someone because God told them to.Do you therefore entertain the possibility that they may have been correct to kill those people, therefore?
Mind you it's also a question of how directly you kill someone. Most people on this forum almost certainly enjoy lifestyles that are not only not available to many people currently living on the planet, but that are contributing to the ultimate slaughter of many of those same people.
Come to think of it, doesn't seem very Christian or compassionate at all.
While I can't speak for individuals I can for a certainty know that the scriptures contain verses where God commands the complete anihilation of some tribes/groups. God has guided me to protect people from harm on occasion and while I was fortunate to escape violence and harm the result could have been different.To say unequivacably that one should never be violent is to assume that violence cannot come out of compassion.
Without violence there would not be one Jewish person alive today and in-fact The Jews were being non-violent in hopes of living they seeked to save their lives, I wonder what would have happened if they became violent the results certainly couldn't have come out worse.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2009,07:02) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 24 2009,06:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 24 2009,04:15) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 23 2009,19:08) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 23 2009,12:44) It seems that mony people would love to cherry pick what they like in the bible instead of accepting the scriptures. The fact is that violence has been not only condoned by God it has in some cases been commanded it is many Christians who don't accept this part of the Holy Scriptures that make them hypocrites when they critisize The Quran for “violent” content.
So if God asked you to kill some people, what would you do? (there is, I seem to remember, a commandment against killing)Come to that, he could just ask you to do anything that would fly in the face of established religious doctrine (e.g. the other commandments), and I assume almost anyone asked would say it couldn't be God asking, but must be Satan.
I'm not saying God doesn't or wouldn't ask these things – just curious how you resolve your stance in terms of consistency in your beliefs.
God wouldn't ask me, He would command me and confirm to me that it is indeed Himself telling me.Satan does not confirm when misleading you because you must commit the sin yourself.
God on the other hand does confirm what He is guiding you to do because you must not/cannot commit a sin under the guidance of God.
I've read news stories where people have claimed they killed someone because God told them to.Do you therefore entertain the possibility that they may have been correct to kill those people, therefore?
Mind you it's also a question of how directly you kill someone. Most people on this forum almost certainly enjoy lifestyles that are not only not available to many people currently living on the planet, but that are contributing to the ultimate slaughter of many of those same people.
Come to think of it, doesn't seem very Christian or compassionate at all.
While I can't speak for individuals I can for a certainty know that the scriptures contain verses where God commands the complete anihilation of some tribes/groups. God has guided me to protect people from harm on occasion and while I was fortunate to escape violence and harm the result could have been different.To say unequivacably that one should never be violent is to assume that violence cannot come out of compassion.
Without violence there would not be one Jewish person alive today and in-fact The Jews were being non-violent in hopes of living they seeked to save their lives, I wonder what would have happened if they became violent the results certainly couldn't have come out worse.
Actually, in the example I gave, there isn't really any direct violence involved in the behaviour that ultimately leads to the death of many people.It is a fair point that there's a lot of violence in the Bible, especially in the old testament. I have heard people claim that the new testament supersedes the old – personally though, I think if God was violent and occasionally destructive in the old testament, there isn't any reason to suppose that would change in the new.
Actually, personally I don't think God is violent and destructive – I think many of the negative events ascribed to God in the old testament are explicable as a result of natural forces. I can see why people without knowledge of those forces would ascribe the events to be caused by God on the basis they heard about it from God – and lacked the knowledge to understand the natural forces concerned. They would assume what they were told about was directly caused by God.
Sometimes though, violence is necessary. Or killing at least.
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 24 2009,05:13) To ALL……….All who have the LOVE of GOD in them are not given to fear and violence, but of Peace, LOVE, Power and a sound mind. The Heathens rage and are full of violence as shown by both Christianity and Islamic faiths,alike. They war because the LOVE of GOD is (NOT) in them. The OLD COVENANT IS (NOT) ANYTHING LIKE THE NEW. Justifying war and Killings by any Faith is EVIL, we are to follow Jesus our brother and some coming KING. WE will with him destory (ALL) instruments of WAR. No one can say they are of the (TRUE) FAITH and condone war and killings and beatings of innocent Children and Women. Training them to go out and blow themselves up, killing themselves as well a many of Innocent people they don't even know. ALL RELIGIONS that support WARS are not TRUE AT ALL. WE are told to come out of this evil world and have no part of it. IMO peace and love………………….gene
It strikes me that America – which has a far stronger religious influence on society that the country I am from – also has a far bigger military spend, and a hell of a lot more nuclear weapons.Unless you tell me the Americans are only pretending to be religious, something seems wrong with that picture by your argument.
Historically religion has often led to war – whether it was justified or not or right or not is another question.
Hi BD,
Yes Islam is of violence.
but is is of the god of this world.
We, however, are to be as gentle as doves.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 24 2009,07:21) Hi BD,
Yes Islam is of violence.
but is is of the god of this world.
We, however, are to be as gentle as doves.
Nick, Doves even get violentQuote These birds are happiest kept in mated pairs, but unless you want a lot of birds, you should remove the eggs once laid. Males can become territorial and may fight, especially if there is a female present. Females usually get along well together. Courting behavior is charming. The male dove usually begins the mating sequence by flying to the nesting site and incessantly calling for the female to join him. Once she is interested, they both fly to the ground where the male will display his tail feathers like a fan, while touching his beak to the ground. Sometimes he will puff up his feathers and strut around the female, stop, puff his feathers up further, then repeat the cycle. Sometimes separately or at the end of this display, the female will open her beak and the male will feed her like he would a baby, but the actions are much more violent and often end with the male violently slapping his wings against the ground. After mating the male will give a series of very short coos for a minute or so while both remain very still.
http://www.birdhobbyist.com/article….ns.htmlQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 24 2009,11:17) Hi BD,
It is the nature of Islam it seems.
Why not turn to our God of Love?
so you like many Chritians don't believe in the Torah believing instead that God has either changed or that Jesus changed the commandments of God?The Quran and The Torah agree 100% therefore either you misunderstand the context of the NT or God is confused
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 24 2009,07:18) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 24 2009,05:13) To ALL……….All who have the LOVE of GOD in them are not given to fear and violence, but of Peace, LOVE, Power and a sound mind. The Heathens rage and are full of violence as shown by both Christianity and Islamic faiths,alike. They war because the LOVE of GOD is (NOT) in them. The OLD COVENANT IS (NOT) ANYTHING LIKE THE NEW. Justifying war and Killings by any Faith is EVIL, we are to follow Jesus our brother and some coming KING. WE will with him destory (ALL) instruments of WAR. No one can say they are of the (TRUE) FAITH and condone war and killings and beatings of innocent Children and Women. Training them to go out and blow themselves up, killing themselves as well a many of Innocent people they don't even know. ALL RELIGIONS that support WARS are not TRUE AT ALL. WE are told to come out of this evil world and have no part of it. IMO peace and love………………….gene
It strikes me that America – which has a far stronger religious influence on society that the country I am from – also has a far bigger military spend, and a hell of a lot more nuclear weapons.Unless you tell me the Americans are only pretending to be religious, something seems wrong with that picture by your argument.
Historically religion has often led to war – whether it was justified or not or right or not is another question.
Douglas……..The United Sates is (NOT) the Kingdom of GOD ,Your taking what i am talking about out of context. All who are of GOD abhor violence of any type, we are called to Peace. “Let this mind be in you that was in Jesus Christ our LORD”, did you see Jesus going around forming armies and telling His disciples to go out and engage is Physical warfare, (NO) but told them to go and preach the Gospel of PEACE. Unto all Nations. IMOpeace and love…………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 24 2009,16:14) Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 24 2009,07:18) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 24 2009,05:13) To ALL……….All who have the LOVE of GOD in them are not given to fear and violence, but of Peace, LOVE, Power and a sound mind. The Heathens rage and are full of violence as shown by both Christianity and Islamic faiths,alike. They war because the LOVE of GOD is (NOT) in them. The OLD COVENANT IS (NOT) ANYTHING LIKE THE NEW. Justifying war and Killings by any Faith is EVIL, we are to follow Jesus our brother and some coming KING. WE will with him destory (ALL) instruments of WAR. No one can say they are of the (TRUE) FAITH and condone war and killings and beatings of innocent Children and Women. Training them to go out and blow themselves up, killing themselves as well a many of Innocent people they don't even know. ALL RELIGIONS that support WARS are not TRUE AT ALL. WE are told to come out of this evil world and have no part of it. IMO peace and love………………….gene
It strikes me that America – which has a far stronger religious influence on society that the country I am from – also has a far bigger military spend, and a hell of a lot more nuclear weapons.Unless you tell me the Americans are only pretending to be religious, something seems wrong with that picture by your argument.
Historically religion has often led to war – whether it was justified or not or right or not is another question.
Douglas……..The United Sates is (NOT) the Kingdom of GOD ,Your taking what i am talking about out of context. All who are of GOD abhor violence of any type, we are called to Peace. “Let this mind be in you that was in Jesus Christ our LORD”, did you see Jesus going around forming armies and telling His disciples to go out and engage is Physical warfare, (NO) but told them to go and preach the Gospel of PEACE. Unto all Nations. IMOpeace and love…………………gene
I'll tell you one thing. If anyone wants to hurt my kids, you had better pray HARD that the authorities get to you before I do.
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