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Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2010,08:59) Hi POK,
It would be as useful as throwing yourself off a building or under a train.
The covenant was not made with us gentiles.
Once grafted in, there is no difference.It would be nice to sabbath with everyone on the board would it not……wait, we will someday.
Hi KW,
You have suggested that not accepting your dogma that the tattered natural body of Jesus went into heaven is to believe in gnosticism.Would you like to enlarge on that accusation?
From wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GnosticismSo it more about saving yourself by acquiring SECRET KNOWLEDGE-akin to the occult.
Nothing to do with not accepting KW's ideas.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2012,00:40) Hi KW,
You have suggested that not accepting your dogma that the tattered natural body of Jesus went into heaven is to believe in gnosticism.Would you like to enlarge on that accusation?
Nick,Quote A more detailed Gnostic theology is as follows. The unknowable God was far too pure and perfect to have anything to do with the material universe which was considered evil. Therefore, God generated lesser divinities, or emenations. One of these emanations, Wisdom desired to know the unknowable God. Out of this erring desire the demiurge an evil god was formed and it was this evil god that created the universe. He along with archons kept the mortals in bondage in material matter and tried to prevent the pure spirit souls from ascending back to god after the death of the physical bodies. Since, according to the Gnostics, matter is evil, deliverance from material form was attainable only through special knowledge revealed by special Gnostic teachers. Christ was the divine redeemer who descended from the spiritual realm to reveal the knowledge necessary for this redemption. In conclusion, Gnosticism is dualistic. That is, it teaches there is a good and evil, spirit and matter, light and dark, etc. dualism in the universe. Here my source. My source is not 100% reliable as it teaches Jesus is God. I have heard the same about Gnosticism elsewhere.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2012,00:45) From wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GnosticismSo it more about saving yourself by acquiring SECRET KNOWLEDGE-akin to the occult.
Nothing to do with not accepting KW's ideas.
Nick,From the Wikipedia entry you linked to.
Quote The estimation of the world, owing to the above, as flawed or a production of “error” but possibly good as its constituent material might allow.[21] This world is typically an inferior simulacrum of a higher-level reality or consciousness. The inferiority may be compared to the technical inferiority of a painting, sculpture, or other handicraft to the thing(s) of which those crafts are supposed to be a representation. In certain other cases it takes on a more ascetic tendency to view material existence, negatively. Which then becomes more extreme when materiality, and the human body, is perceived as evil and constrictive, a deliberate prison for its inhabitants; Some Gnostics looked on the material as imperfect.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2012,02:29) Hi KW,
So it is in some way the raising of vain philosophical thoughts above scriptural truth?
Nick,I assume you are using a “the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group” as an adjective.
The Gnostics teach in vain as Jesus is not with them. Their teachings influenced the doctrines of certain people and one of there teachings is that the material world is at best, flawed and, worse evil.
This leads them to conclude that the material body holds the spirit being captive.
It certainly sounds similar to the teaching that only the immaterial exists in heaven; a teaching that is based on a flawed understanding of the words “flesh and blood cannot inherit the reign of God; as it is speaking of what will inherit the age to come and not what will enter heaven.
What support, in Scripture, really exists that matter cannot exists in heaven?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2012,03:01) Hi KW,
Immaterial?
Jesus is garbed in a new heavenly body.
Nick,That which is composed of Spirit is not composed of matter.
Yes, Jesus has a body from heaven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2012,03:57) Hi KW,
So you mean anything material is of earthly matter?
Why?
Nick,I stated that which is composed of spirit is not composed of matter because spirit, like energy, is not matter.
I believe there is matter in heaven as well as on earth. I believe that matter in heaven has a different nature than the nature of earth; as the matter in heaven is not subject to decay.
Nick………..Jesus has the same BODY he was resurected (IN) and it was a Physical Body, not a so-called Spirit Body, because a Spirit “BODY” does not exist, now or ever has. Spirit are what is (IN) BODIES, there is NO Spirit body of any kind. For the thousandth time!.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………..gene
Hi GB,
Quite so.
Then he was given a heavenly body when he rose out of our sight-just like ours.When he returns in glory it will not be in the tattered old earth suit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 26 2012,16:34) Hi,
The stench of gnosticism still pervades the theories about God.
Nick;I agree that we need to watch for that and other things.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2012,07:43) Hi GB,
Quite so.
Then he was given a heavenly body when he rose out of our sight-just like ours.When he returns in glory it will not be in the tattered old earth suit.
Nick……….Please show us where any scripture say Jesus Body was changed or done away with for a different Body. Show us were scripture says Jesus was given a different “HEAVENLY BODY” as you “ASSUME”.He was not raised with any tattered old earth suit as you say but a resurected “BODY” that lives for ever and when He returns He will still have that eternal risen and Glorified Body He was raised with. That body went through doors , became visible and invisible rose up into the heavens.
Your conjectures of his so-called “TATTERED BODY” he was raised with is False and not one scripture verifies you conclusion. If so produce it.
peace and love……………………………………..gene
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