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NH.
Pauls epistles were written to the believers, but for all to read. After all, many who don't believe, will do so by reading these scriptures. ALL Scripture is for us, even if it was written to the saints.Blessings.
Hi CO,
Obviously anyone who can open the bible can read it and perhaps learn principles from it but Ephesians 1.1 shows that the letter only personally relates to believers?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,17:28) Hi CO,
Obviously anyone who can open the bible can read it and perhaps learn principles from it but Ephesians 1.1 shows that the letter only personally relates to believers?
Ephesians
Chapter 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to all the saints who are also believers in Christ Jesus:Hi Co,
The body of Christ is still being completed so the audience grows each day as men repent unto rebirth.Nick…………….men are (CAUSED) to repent , they do not repent on their own>
peace to you and yours,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 16 2009,11:02) Hi Co,
The body of Christ is still being completed so the audience grows each day as men repent unto rebirth.
NH.
I am not sure, when you say “we must repent”. What do men repent of for salvation?Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 31 2009,12:48) To All,
Our brother Seeking has advocated the notion that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation. I offered him the non-trinitarian explanation of John 10:30 where Jesus said “I and the Father are one.” The non-trinitarian explanation is that the Father and the Son act as one. I agree with the non-trinitarian explanation btw. I challenged Seeking to explain how the Father had full responsibility if the Father and the Son act together as one.This is Seeking's reply:
Quote Seeking agrees to cut down a neighbors tree and takes full
responsibilty to see to the completion of the task. Seeking calls his son and says ” I have agreed to cut down the neighbors tree, let us do the job together.” Together we cut down the tree. WHO TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILTY TO GET THE JOB DONE?I pointed out on the Trinity 2 thread that this analogy is problematic for the simple reason that Seeking cuts down the tree together with his son. But Christ's Father did NOT suffer and die together with Him. Christ's Father FORSOOK him while He hung on the cross. But Seeking thinks that the mere sending of Christ by the Father means that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation.
The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14). The key words are “to be.” The Father sent the Son TO BE the Savior of the world. So make no mistake. The Son ALONE is your Savior.
Quote He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world (1 John 2:2). The Father is NOT our Savior. Jesus ALONE is our Savior. He Himself ALONE propitiated the Father's wrath.
thinker
The logic of your original post is flawed because Jesus is not actually your Saviour as he is only mediating your salvation, otherwise he would not be called a High Priest. If he is the Mediator as the scripture says your salvation is due to his intercession for you but he makes it clear that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved but only those who do the will of THE FATHER.If you do not look to the Father for Salvation Jesus will “not have any part of you”
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 31 2009,12:48) To All,
Our brother Seeking has advocated the notion that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation. I offered him the non-trinitarian explanation of John 10:30 where Jesus said “I and the Father are one.” The non-trinitarian explanation is that the Father and the Son act as one. I agree with the non-trinitarian explanation btw. I challenged Seeking to explain how the Father had full responsibility if the Father and the Son act together as one.This is Seeking's reply:
Quote Seeking agrees to cut down a neighbors tree and takes full
responsibilty to see to the completion of the task. Seeking calls his son and says ” I have agreed to cut down the neighbors tree, let us do the job together.” Together we cut down the tree. WHO TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILTY TO GET THE JOB DONE?I pointed out on the Trinity 2 thread that this analogy is problematic for the simple reason that Seeking cuts down the tree together with his son. But Christ's Father did NOT suffer and die together with Him. Christ's Father FORSOOK him while He hung on the cross. But Seeking thinks that the mere sending of Christ by the Father means that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation.
The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14). The key words are “to be.” The Father sent the Son TO BE the Savior of the world. So make no mistake. The Son ALONE is your Savior.
Quote He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world (1 John 2:2). The Father is NOT our Savior. Jesus ALONE is our Savior. He Himself ALONE propitiated the Father's wrath.
thinker
The logic of your original post is flawed because Jesus is not actually your Saviour as he is only mediating your salvation, otherwise he would not be called a High Priest. If he is the Mediator as the scripture says your salvation is due to his intercession for you but he makes it clear that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved but only those who do the will of THE FATHER.
Hi bodhithartaQuote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26)
If you do not look to the Father for Salvation Jesus will “not have any part of you”
I think you have it backwards, Jesus said…Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me“. John 14:6
“Looking unto Jesus the *author and finisher** of our faith“; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 16 2009,18:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 31 2009,12:48) To All,
Our brother Seeking has advocated the notion that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation. I offered him the non-trinitarian explanation of John 10:30 where Jesus said “I and the Father are one.” The non-trinitarian explanation is that the Father and the Son act as one. I agree with the non-trinitarian explanation btw. I challenged Seeking to explain how the Father had full responsibility if the Father and the Son act together as one.This is Seeking's reply:
Quote Seeking agrees to cut down a neighbors tree and takes full
responsibilty to see to the completion of the task. Seeking calls his son and says ” I have agreed to cut down the neighbors tree, let us do the job together.” Together we cut down the tree. WHO TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILTY TO GET THE JOB DONE?I pointed out on the Trinity 2 thread that this analogy is problematic for the simple reason that Seeking cuts down the tree together with his son. But Christ's Father did NOT suffer and die together with Him. Christ's Father FORSOOK him while He hung on the cross. But Seeking thinks that the mere sending of Christ by the Father means that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation.
The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14). The key words are “to be.” The Father sent the Son TO BE the Savior of the world. So make no mistake. The Son ALONE is your Savior.
Quote He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world (1 John 2:2). The Father is NOT our Savior. Jesus ALONE is our Savior. He Himself ALONE propitiated the Father's wrath.
thinker
The logic of your original post is flawed because Jesus is not actually your Saviour as he is only mediating your salvation, otherwise he would not be called a High Priest. If he is the Mediator as the scripture says your salvation is due to his intercession for you but he makes it clear that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved but only those who do the will of THE FATHER.
Hi bodhithartaQuote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26)
If you do not look to the Father for Salvation Jesus will “not have any part of you”
I think you have it backwards, Jesus said…Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me“. John 14:6
“Looking unto Jesus the *author and finisher** of our faith“; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2
Blessings WJ
BTWJesus is actually the Saviour for it was his blood and his life that he laid down!
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Tim 1:10
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 16 2009,18:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 31 2009,12:48) To All,
Our brother Seeking has advocated the notion that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation. I offered him the non-trinitarian explanation of John 10:30 where Jesus said “I and the Father are one.” The non-trinitarian explanation is that the Father and the Son act as one. I agree with the non-trinitarian explanation btw. I challenged Seeking to explain how the Father had full responsibility if the Father and the Son act together as one.This is Seeking's reply:
Quote Seeking agrees to cut down a neighbors tree and takes full
responsibilty to see to the completion of the task. Seeking calls his son and says ” I have agreed to cut down the neighbors tree, let us do the job together.” Together we cut down the tree. WHO TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILTY TO GET THE JOB DONE?I pointed out on the Trinity 2 thread that this analogy is problematic for the simple reason that Seeking cuts down the tree together with his son. But Christ's Father did NOT suffer and die together with Him. Christ's Father FORSOOK him while He hung on the cross. But Seeking thinks that the mere sending of Christ by the Father means that the Father took the full responsibility for our salvation.
The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14). The key words are “to be.” The Father sent the Son TO BE the Savior of the world. So make no mistake. The Son ALONE is your Savior.
Quote He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world (1 John 2:2). The Father is NOT our Savior. Jesus ALONE is our Savior. He Himself ALONE propitiated the Father's wrath.
thinker
The logic of your original post is flawed because Jesus is not actually your Saviour as he is only mediating your salvation, otherwise he would not be called a High Priest. If he is the Mediator as the scripture says your salvation is due to his intercession for you but he makes it clear that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved but only those who do the will of THE FATHER.
Hi bodhithartaQuote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26)
If you do not look to the Father for Salvation Jesus will “not have any part of you”
I think you have it backwards, Jesus said…Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me“. John 14:6
“Looking unto Jesus the *author and finisher** of our faith“; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2
Blessings WJ
“no man cometh unto the Father, but by me“That's right no one comes to the Father, but by me.
This clearly means that the destiny is Our Father God
also Jesus says that all those who come to Jesus The Father gave to him and no one can snatch them out of his hand. Please understand that God so loved the world that he sent Jesus you would be right if Jesus came on his own accord but since Jesus says not his will but the Fathers will you should be on your knees thanking the Father that his will was what it was because do not forget that Jesus begged for that cup to be passed from him. Jesus is truly great but do not forget the one who sent him for GOD THE FATHER is truly doing the saving.
To bodhitharta.
Good point.
“no man cometh unto the Father, but by me”
The Father is our God. Jesus is the way to God.
When we pray we pray to the Father in Jesus name.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 16 2009,18:53) Hi bodhitharta Quote (bodhitharta @ April 16 2009,18:26)
If you do not look to the Father for Salvation Jesus will “not have any part of you”
I think you have it backwards, Jesus said…Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me“. John 14:6
“Looking unto Jesus the *author and finisher** of our faith“; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:2
Blessings WJ
The Father is our God. Jesus is the mediator between God and man. Yes we are to look at the mediator because the mediator will deliver is to God.When Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by me, he is saying that no one comes to God, but through or via him.
So fellowshipping or being one with God is the purpose that he came. Of course because Jesus is one with God, that makes us one with them (i.e., God and his son).
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,08:55) Hi E,
So Jesus is not a man and not the Son of God but one being with God??
I am sorry you believe this N, that is a terribly basic error, I thought you had come further in your understanding… please, read your bible carefully…and don't attribute your misunderstandings, straw men and caricatures to others…
blessings,
ken
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