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G ,
So the blood of Jesus must wash each repentant person, just as the blood was put around the door posts of individuals, to divert the fury of God. No universalism nonsense.The thinker,
You say in your original post …The Father is NOT our Savior. Jesus ALONE is our Savior. He Himself ALONE propitiated the Father's wrath.thinker
In 1Tim.4:9-11 it says …9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.See in verse 10 ..”Who is the saviour of all mankind”. It is God who saves us, through His Son! See 2Cor.5:18-19 .. Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.What do you think?
Blessings
Hi CO,
God saves men every day from their own folly and He sends His rain on the wicked and the good alike.
But the gift of eternal salvation is found in the son of God.
All must repent and be reborn.Nick………you stress all must repent as if it is up to the person themselves to repent and then some how conform to the will 0f God, to be saved, if that be the case then why send Jesus to die for anyones sins, seeing its up the the person themselves to repent, who needs the sacrifice of Jesus. Just repent yourself and be saved is you religion. But Jesus said it differently , NO man (CAN) come unto me except the Father Draw (GREEK DRAG) him. Your (fee will) choices are flawed. Repentance as well as Faith is a gift from GOD and does (NOT) originate with the person themselves, It can (ONLY) be achieved BY GOD'S Spirit. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Nick……….Absolutely all is done (FOR) us all, By GOD the FATHER the (ONLY) true (CREATOR)) of RIGHTEOUSNESS. “FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN US (BOTH) TO WILL AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE”. What part of that don't you understand Nick. Your Pride in self salvation is a problem Nick. You don't view Salvation as a CREATION and WORK of GOD, so you glory in your own self (Choices) as a work of Salvation. Tell me who get the Glory in saving you, (YOU) or GOD the FATHER? Remember brother Pride goes before a fall. Trust in the LORD and HIM ALONE as Jesus did. And as i said before May GOD makes me His personal robot. A thought you abhor i am sure, as all (I) Gods do. IMO
Love and peace to you………………………………..gene
Nick…….Who says your intellect is your own in the first place, that is just an assumption. All Knowledge has always existed We add nothing to It or take anything away either. ” The Spirit (intellect) returns to the one who gave it.” and again “that GOD may be ALL in ALL”. You may not be as important as you assume you are. IMO
love and peace to you………………………….gene
So lets rely on scripture!
Eph2:7-10 …that, in the oncoming eons, He (God) should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.God makes robots (mankind) a little better than Man can make.
Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ April 09 2009,22:17) So lets rely on scripture! Eph2:7-10 …that, in the oncoming eons, He (God) should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.God makes robots (mankind) a little better than Man can make.
Blessings.
Chosenone,Agreed, God does a better job with us than we can. As you say, relying on scripture, perhaps a better word than “robot”
would be “slave”.Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Rom 6:21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.Blessings,
Seeking
Quote (SEEKING @ April 11 2009,01:31) Quote (chosenone @ April 09 2009,22:17) So lets rely on scripture! Eph2:7-10 …that, in the oncoming eons, He (God) should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.God makes robots (mankind) a little better than Man can make.
Blessings.
Chosenone,Agreed, God does a better job with us than we can. As you say, relying on scripture, perhaps a better word than “robot”
would be “slave”.Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Rom 6:21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.Blessings,
Seeking
Seeking, Good point, slaves is another description.
Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that scripture is not about what God is telling us “that we must do” to be saved, but about what “God is doing” to save us.
What do you think?Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ April 10 2009,11:19) Seeking[/quote]
Seeking, Good point, slaves is another description.
Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that scripture is not about what God is telling us “that we must do” to be saved, but about what “God is doing” to save us.
What do you think?Blessings.
Chosenone,Yes indeed! I have pretty much settled on the idea that
God is the author of the play, so to speak. We, his children,
the prophets, Jesus, etal are simply the actors acting out the script.That is why I see God with full responsibllity assigning various places to different individuals to bring His plan to fruition.
Make sense?
Blessings,
Seeking
Hi S,
It is not all prearranged in detail.
Choice is involved every step of the way every day.
There are many options open to God if men do not cooperate with grace.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 10 2009,11:46) Hi S,
It is not all prearranged in detail.
Choice is involved every step of the way every day.
There are many options open to God if men do not cooperate with grace.
I think that is what I said. Yes, He planned options to His grace being ignored and has many options when it is refused. One option He provided, that I trust in frequently, is forgiveness following repentance.Blessings,
Seeking
SEEKING wrote:Yes indeed! I have pretty much settled on the idea that
God is the author of the play, so to speak. We, his children,
the prophets, Jesus, etal are simply the actors acting out the script.That is why I see God with full responsibllity assigning various places to different individuals to bring His plan to fruition.
Make sense?
Blessings,
Seeking………I couldn't pass this up!, “THE WORLD IS A STAGE AND WE ARE THE ACTORS,” William Shakespeare. Your words emulate His on this. God is in far more control then most even begin to think. He laughs at the plans of the nations and foils there plans, He lifts up the weak and feeble and makes them strong, he takes away the strength of the might and abases them . But man thinks that by His so-called (FREE WILL) He choses his own salvation such pride is just man flapping his jaws. Even true repentance can not be achieved without GOD causing it , in order for us to find true forgiveness. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………gene
Nick………you continual want to make salvation from the self, you need to shake it off and trust in the power and GRACE of GOD brother, as Jesus did, He put (NO) trust in Himself or His so-called (FREE WILL) Choices, But just the opposite He put his preferred Choices not to die to death and hung on to his trust in GOD, Or GOD'S Choice For HIM. Jesus said he came (NOT) to do (HIS) Will but the WILL of HIM who sent him. Saying the Son of man can do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF , and that includes any so-called (FREE) Will choices. He was given the opportunity to either lay down His life or not, and he did of his own (influenced) Will Chose to lay it down. God Spiritual (influence) was on Him in that decision. IMO
love and peace…………………………gene
Seeking and Gene.
How pleasant it is to have others that understand it is what “God is doing”, and not what “we must do”, for salvation. Eph.1:9-11 comes to mind that explains this. …9 making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)
10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,Verse 11 especially … being designated beforehand according to the purpose “of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will”, my quotation inserted.
I would be pleased if you would explain at what point in your walk with God, that you came to this conclusion, thanks.
Blessings, Jerry.
Chosenone……….I came to that conclusion a long time ago, when I tried so hard to quit some sins i had and would continually fail until i gave up and turned it over the the FATHER and ask for his help and overcame them , God gave me the desire to quit them and more He gave me the power to also. I know it was not by my own Choices or strength . It was by the Spirit of GOD, and i have had many many prayers answered in my Life. I could give page after page of things GOD has done in my life. No one will ever convince me it was by my (so-called) Free Will choices , But ONLY by the power of GOD HIMSELF. I believe like Paul there is no Good thing in this body of death. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………..gene
Chosenone,
After years and years of trying to sort out proper interpretation of scripture, the “right” church, etc. I decided man is just not capable,
led by his intellect, to become Christlike.Christlikeness, I believe, should be our goal. But, it is God in us who
both urges us to will and to do. I began to see that those led by the Spirit were far more Christlike than the “boot strap method” believers.Boot strap method believers, I found, are unchristlike in their conversations, accusations, and conduct. That includes me when I resort to striving to get it right.
God makes us right as we submit. Someone once commented on the bumper sticker, “GOD IS MY CO-PILOT” – “MOVE OVER AND LET HIM DRIVE.”
And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2Cor.3:18
It's much easier with him driving!
Blessings,
Seeking
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