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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,06:38) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 22 2010,14:17) We are directly told that it is in FOLLOWING the carnal mind that brings forth death. What do ya think WJ?
JodiI think you make a lot of assumptions.
It was the first Adams disobedience that brought death!
The first sin was disobeying YHWH's command to not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
The carnal mind is a result of that sin and then the fall.
When God created Adam and Eve without sin, he said it was good.
You are inferring that God would be saying that Adam and Eve had a carnal mind before they sinned and that YHWH was saying that the “Carnal Mind” was good.
God did not create man with a mind which was at “Enmity” with him or he wouldn't call it good!
“Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Rom 8:7
This is just more of the fallacious teachings of the “Carnal Mind” IMO!
What do you do with this verse…?
“But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but **HAS CONTROLL OVER HIS OWN WILL**, and who has made up his mind” not to marry the virgin–this man also does the right thing. 7:37
WJ
Hi WJ, (Sorry for the late response)Assumption?
More like DIRECT CORRELATION!!
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live…. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
WJ, why did God name the forbidden tree, “The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil”? You speak as if the name given to the tree has no symbolic meaning. Why, once Adam and Eve ate of it God said, “you have become like one of us, knowing good and evil”?
Let’s not forget that God KNEW before hand what would occur, otherwise God would not have spoken the words of the Promise before He made creation. Why would He have needed a plan of salvation if He didn’t already know what was going to transpire?
WJ, you said, “When God created Adam and Eve without sin, he said it was good.”
NO scripture says that God created Adam and Eve without sin. What does that even mean, could you explain?”
God created Adam and Eve with the ability to sin, we know this for a fact because they indeed chose to break His law.
When God created Adam and Eve, He created them exactly how He wanted to and saw that it was good. He created them with the ability to think for themselves.
Was all the lessons of righteousness HELD in the one commandment that God gave Adam and Eve?
So long as they did not eat from that one tree they were perfect human beings? Adam and Eve could do whatever they wanted and it would be seen as righteous, just so long as they didn’t eat from that one tree?
Sin certainly exists outside the law. Israel was the only nation that received the law from God. Were the Israelites the only sinners?
Eve was the first transgressor of the law, but that does not mean in itself that she committed the first sin. Certainly as Paul says, sin was in the world before Moses brought the commandments.
Clearly all righteousness for Adam and Eve was not held in that one law of not eating from a tree. Come on!! WJ, you don't think that there was any sort of spiritual representation in the the law and within the NAME of the Tree?
Adam and Eve ate of the Tree not to defy God, they ate out of their own ignorance THINKING that it would bring them wisdom. Adam and Eve held DECEIT in their own minds, taking from the tree represented more then just disobeying God, it meant they were TRUSTING IN THEIR OWN understanding, instead of trusting in their Creator.
Adam was born with flesh with a natural body.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
Genesis 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
1 Corinthians 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Adam was certainly born with the spirit of a man. Adam was made out of the earth given incorruptible flesh, however Adam’s mind was not perfect. We see through Jesus, that God’s perfection in man takes growing in grace and knowledge, it takes being given God’s Spirit and as well we are told that Jesus was perfected through suffering Jesus came at a predestined time well after God had brought forth the law. Jesus came at a time where God could prove to him the inadequacies of man’s spirit.
Adam’s mind certainly did not come out of the dust filled with all truth and knowledge of God or with the ability to mirror God’s righteous character. Adam was a created creature and he came out of the dust with the mind of a created creature filled with ignorance and inexperience. He certainly
had no history of man to be able to know his limitations, nor was he aware that he needed God’s Spirit to know truth. If we can reflect on for a minute the lesson we learn from the book of Job, we see that Job was considered by God as a blameless and upright man, however we see by the end of the book Job loathes himself and realizes how ignorant of God he was and he was humbled with a repenting heart. For what was GIVEN to Job he was upright and blameless, but what was given to Job was a Hedge of Protection and a limited perspective of life. God took that protection away and Job had to rethink all that he knew, and in this new perspective he began to question God’s own judgments. Jesus grew in grace and knowledge, and he remained a man without sin, but when did God consider him the man of perfection? Adam did not come out of the earth a perfect man.Carnal represents relating to or consisting of the body. Adam was created with a body of flesh making him most certainly born with a carnal mind. When death came, the carnal mind was subjected to the knowledge of death, and man entered into a state of fear. Prior to that fear the carnal mind just had it’s ignorance to deal with.
The ABILITY for Adam and Eve to trust in their own understanding came from their CARNAL MINDS. The carnal mind must be refined, it must be worked over by the Spirit of God in order to be made perfect, and that is an individual journey set forth through God's planning and His Will.
The source of ALL TRUTH comes from God's Spirit, without that Spirit man is full of deceit, because his OWN understanding is completely ignorant. The animal kingdom is ignorant of God, all they know is their OWN nature, and thus they act solely upon that nature. Man, unlike the rest of the created creatures was given the ability to come to know God and be able to act like the Creator instead of the created.
When man acts outside of the character of God he is acting like that of an ignorant beast.
Why did Jesus say, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do”?
Think about it?
Seems that some here would think Jesus was in the WRONG for what he said.
They knew not what they were doing because the Spirit of God was NOT IN THEM, what was IN them was the ignorant spirit of man.
Romans 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
“Father FORGIVE them for they do not know what they do”, these WORDS of Christ STILL STAND!!
When we see people today rejecting Christ, these WORDS should ring in our hearts, and we should know that God WILL have mercy on them, and one day according to His Will because it is His desire, He will take out the spirit that is in them and give them a new spirit that will cause them to walk in His ways.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 01 2010,04:11) terraricca………… pHI 2:13….>”FOR IT IS GOD THE (WORKS) IN YOU (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.” NOW CONTARY TO YOU LYING AND SAY I PRODUCE (NO) SCRIPTURE TO SHOW WE HAVE (NO) SUCH THING AS A 'FREE” WILL EVEN THOUGH NOT ONE PLACE IN SCRITURE SAY WE (HAVE “FREE”WILLS IN US).
Now If it is OUR OWN so-called “FREE” WILLS that must determine our Choices , THEN WHY WOULD GOD HAVE TO (WORK) IN US BOTHE TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE. If GOD did that then He is controlling our WILL and we are not “FREE” Willed at all. GET IT, or is that to hard for you to UNDERSTAND. mOUTHING OFF ACCUSATIONS ONLY SHOWS YOU IGNORANCE> IMO
genethat verse is not saying in your way ,at all ,please do not twist scriptures ,here his the verses in question;
Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
Phil 2:14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,
Phil 2:15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
Phil 2:16 as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.God only works in you if you go to him in your free will and obey;
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 01 2010,03:41) Terraricca…………If our So-called Free WILLs Exist then why would Paul say < there is (NO) good thing in my flesh, for to WILL is Present in Me. that is just one of many posted your just not able to comperhend it, lets be honst here. Here another one (if our (FREE WILL) are so important in the salvation process. why does it say God has to (work) in Us (BOTH) to WILL and do of HIS good Pleasure. But let me quote the completer scripture lest you accuse me of Partial quoting, Phi 2:13…..> FOR IT IS GOD WHICH (WORKS) (IN) YOU (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND TO DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.
Now i coud go and requote all the rest of the many scriptures i have already , but so you don't get confused lets Just talk about this (ONE) Scripture for a while.
Now why would God have to (WORK) in US if we by Our own “FREE WILL” can Make up our own MINDS by our OWN “FREE” Choices. This aonle should make you think ther are (OTHER) INFLUENCING of OUR (WILLS) Taking PLACE.
WE Have not even begin to address the Issue of we are the CLAY and GOD is the POTTER, and (CAN) Make from the same Lump a vessel of HONOR or a VESSEL of Dishonor, You remind of those that say “WELL WHY DOE HE (GOD) FIND FAULT THEN SEE HE DOES WHAT SOEVER HE WILLS TO WITH US. PAULS ANSWER WAS YEA “BUT WHO ARE YOU O MAN THE REPLIET UNTO GOD, SHALL THE THING CREATED SAY UNTO HIM THE CREATED IT WHY HAVE YOU MADE ME THUS.
HAS NOT THE POTTER (POWER) OVER THE CLAY TO MAKE IT THE WAY HE WANTS TO. But you and the rest of the so-called (Free Willer's) would say, (NO) because we have a “FREE” Will, it is our “FREE Choice” to decide, Pure garbage teaching, Man Hates that God is in (FULL) control, just like you and the rest of the “FREE WILLER'S” DO. The Source is PRIDE which is the mother of rebellion thsame thing that caused the fall of ADAM and EVE. As long as a Man thinks he Is his (OWN) Salvation by HIS OWN FREE WILLS< he remains alone and Has NOT Died and therefore he abides alone. Jesus said UNLESS a Seed falls to the Ground and dies it remains (ALONE) but if It dies (to it self) it will come to life, All who hold on the thier falsely called (Free Will) have (NOT) dies unto themselves and abide alone. IMO
geneagain you give your interpretation in a devious way,read the scripture you quote;
Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
Phil 2:14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,
Phil 2:15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
Phil 2:16 as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Phil 2:17 But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you.
Phil 2:18 So you too should be glad and rejoice with meYOU COULD DEFINETLY SEE THAT IT IS OF THERE FREEWILL THAT THE CHRISTIANS WERE CHANGING THIER PERSONALITY TO BE CONFORM TO GOD S WILL.
Terraricca…………Not one scripture there has anything to do with a”FREE”WILL , in fact it say (GOD) WORKS (HIS WILL) in them. Are you so blinded You can't even see that. GO reread it again specially verse 13, and this time try to think about what it says, and except it for once. Instead of trying to dance all around it by entering other scripture that do not take away form what verse say (IT IS (GOD) WHO (WORKS) IN US (BOTH) (TWO THINGS) One to WILL and two to do of (HIS) good Pleasure. Trying to twist scripture to meet some false assumptions of ours is all you are doing. IMO
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 01 2010,06:54) Why did Jesus say, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do”? Think about it?
Seems that some here would think Jesus was in the WRONG for what he said.
They knew not what they were doing because the Spirit of God was NOT IN THEM, what was IN them was the ignorant spirit of man.
Romans 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
“Father FORGIVE them for they do not know what they do”, these WORDS of Christ STILL STAND!!
When we see people today rejecting Christ, these WORDS should ring in our hearts, and we should know that God WILL have mercy on them, and one day according to His Will because it is His desire, He will take out the spirit that is in them and give them a new spirit that will cause them to walk in His ways.
Jodi……….Great Post sis.Peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
gene
you are not answering because you cannot defend your own men thought,so God is declare the winner
and freewill is his way
gene
your power of suggesting your thought instead of scriptures are over ,God and scriptures have shown truth,freewill is the way to God and Christ.
terraricca,
How do you deal with the scripture that says God CAUSES men to walk in His ways, by putting a new spirit in them?
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
and how about this one,
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
terraricca, was not the point of the law to PROVE that man from his OWN spirit cannot lead himself into righteousness?
1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received , not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak , not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth ; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
terraricca, you say that it is the spirit of man that has the “free will” to choose God. The above however shows quite clearly that the spirit in man CANNOT even UNDERSTAND God or KNOW God.
Why did Jesus ask God to forgive those that killed him? Why did he say, THEY KNEW NOT WHAT THEY DO?…. Because the spirit of man is what was rejecting Christ, because the spirit IN man cannot understand Christ, just like the spirit in man was incapable of keeping the law to bring himself into righteousness.
What part of this do you not understand?……THE NATURAL MAN RECEIVES NOT THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
You teach that the spirit in man is what God gave us to be able to choose Him. However the TRUTH given in direct scripture says that God gave us a spirit that is INCAPABLE of even knowing Him let alone being able to choose Him.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2010,00:39) gene your power of suggesting your thought instead of scriptures are over ,God and scriptures have shown truth,freewill is the way to God and Christ.
The Spirit of YHWH is the WAY to our Father and Brother, the natural man cannot even understand God, let alone be able to choose Him.Jodi
we know who your friend are,you should rather look for God s truth not for your interpretation of god s word this would make you judge of the word of God,
and i know you are but a human ,wake up and see the truth
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 02 2010,04:18) terraricca, How do you deal with the scripture that says God CAUSES men to walk in His ways, by putting a new spirit in them?
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
and how about this one,
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
terraricca, was not the point of the law to PROVE that man from his OWN spirit cannot lead himself into righteousness?
1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received , not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak , not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth ; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
terraricca, you say that it is the spirit of man that has the “free will” to choose God. The above however shows quite clearly that the spirit in man CANNOT even UNDERSTAND God or KNOW God.
Why did Jesus ask God to forgive those that killed him? Why did he say, THEY KNEW NOT WHAT THEY DO?…. Because the spirit of man is what was rejecting Christ, because the spirit IN man cannot understand Christ, just like the spirit in man was incapable of keeping the law to bring himself into righteousness.
What part of this do you not understand?……THE NATURAL MAN RECEIVES NOT THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
You teach that the spirit in man is what God gave us to be able to choose Him. However the TRUTH given in direct scripture says that God gave us a spirit that is INCAPABLE of even knowing Him let alone being able to choose Him.
Jodiagain you twisting the words i say ,but this you also do with the word of God.
you place yourself above god words as judge ,but you are only human not God ,not even a angel would do what you do.
only Satan as faced God for his own destruction.
the truth is God word and understanding is given by God to those who love him.
the ones who love God do not twist the scriptures to their own views.
it is out of there freewill that men who love God the father of Christ to do the will of their creator and saviour.
this is what God wantsJn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”the truth of God is the way but you have to wanted
JOdi
Eze 36:24 “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Eze 36:28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
Eze 36:29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you.
Eze 36:30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.
Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices.
Eze 36:32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, OGod as already accomplish this trough Christ if you understand scriptures.
Once AGAIN you IGNORE the scriptures. Why do you refuse to address directly the scriptures I have given?
The scriptures you just gave don't annul the FACT that God CAUSES people to follow Him.
We don't choose ourselves to follow God, God CHOOSES US and then He CAUSES us to follow Him.
Those who reject God today PROVE God's point that the natural man cannot know God or choose God's ways. As well, it shows that God is doing His word, blinding some for the purpose of bringing others into the truth.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for ; but the election hath obtained it , and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written , God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see , and ears that they should not hear 😉 unto this day. 9 And David saith , Let their table be made a snare , and a trap , and a stumblingblock , and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened , that they may not see , and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then , Have they stumbled that they should fall ? God forbid : but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy . 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off , and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast , thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off , that I might be graffed in . 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off , and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded , but fear : 21 For if God spared not the natural branches , take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell , severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off . 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in : for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in . 26 And so all Israel shall be saved : as it is written , There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer , and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes : but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed , that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy . 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again ? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
You seem to blatantly disregard such words, and then try to understand other scriptures as if they do not exists.
Your belief evokes nothing but VANITY and FOOLISHNESS IMO!!
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2010,05:19) JOdi Eze 36:24 “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Eze 36:28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
Eze 36:29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you.
Eze 36:30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.
Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices.
Eze 36:32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, OGod as already accomplish this trough Christ if you understand scriptures.
No!Scripture declares that God purposely has blinded Israel from not believing in Christ and the Gospel. The above will not happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then as the Gentiles received mercy, Israel will also. Christ is coming to establish God's Kingdom, it will be THEN that God will CAUSE Israel to accept Christ. When Christ returns he will be the Messiah that Israel had been expecting.
Read and BELIEVE Romans 11!!
it states that they were MADE enemies of the gospel for the sake of others (those specifically being called by God at that time).
Did you get that terraricca? God purposely MADE enemies of the Gospel. He purposely blinded men so that they could not see.
NOW is NOT the calling of every person into the Kingdom of God. We don't choose out of our so called “free wills” to accept the Gospel. Our Heavenly Father chooses us and when He does that calling is irrevocable!!
Seriously what part of God CAUSES do you not understand?
God causes, because He is able to overpower our own pathetic spirits that are ignorant and weak. Truly God's Spirit is more powerful and influential then that of man's.
You seem to declare however that man's spirit is stronger then God's!!
VANITY and FOOLISHNESS!!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 02 2010,06:09) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2010,05:19) JOdi Eze 36:24 “ ‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Eze 36:28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
Eze 36:29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you.
Eze 36:30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.
Eze 36:31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices.
Eze 36:32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, OGod as already accomplish this trough Christ if you understand scriptures.
No!Scripture declares that God purposely has blinded Israel from not believing in Christ and the Gospel. The above will not happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Then as the Gentiles received mercy, Israel will also. Christ is coming to establish God's Kingdom, it will be THEN that God will CAUSE Israel to accept Christ. When Christ returns he will be the Messiah that Israel had been expecting.
Read and BELIEVE Romans 11!!
JODIEph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
2Ti 2:14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen
there is no word like” CAUSE” in my bibles,you must have your own religion one.
“there is no word like” CAUSE” in my bibles,you must have your own religion one.”
How many times have I given this scripture?
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in the midst of you: and I will cause you to walk in my commandments, and to keep my judgments, and do them.
What on earth are you talking about? The word CAUSE is most definitely in the bible. Are you truly THAT BLIND?
Not only are you ignoring scripture, you are not making any sense.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 02 2010,06:33) “there is no word like” CAUSE” in my bibles,you must have your own religion one.” How many times have I given this scripture?
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in the midst of you: and I will cause you to walk in my commandments, and to keep my judgments, and do them.
What on earth are you talking about? The word CAUSE is most definitely in the bible. Are you truly THAT BLIND?
Not only are you ignoring scripture, you are not making any sense.
jodiEze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you so you will obey my laws and do whatever I command
27 I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. 28 Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
i also have many different traslations in different language,
there i show you 3 different translations in english,and it seems that the word cause means that God will bring forth the cause to allow the people to walk in the way of God,
this was done by Christ .
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2010,07:03) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 02 2010,06:33) “there is no word like” CAUSE” in my bibles,you must have your own religion one.” How many times have I given this scripture?
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in the midst of you: and I will cause you to walk in my commandments, and to keep my judgments, and do them.
What on earth are you talking about? The word CAUSE is most definitely in the bible. Are you truly THAT BLIND?
Not only are you ignoring scripture, you are not making any sense.
jodiEze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you so you will obey my laws and do whatever I command
27 I will put my spirit within you, and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. 28 Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
i also have many different traslations in different language,
there i show you 3 different translations in english,and it seems that the word cause means that God will bring forth the cause to allow the people to walk in the way of God,
this was done by Christ .
The scripture clearly states that God CAUSES or rather MAKES man follow His commandments. He accomplishes this by changing their hearts and minds, by giving them a new heart, a new mind.
Scripture does not state that man chooses God's Spirit, as if he goes up to a drive-up window and can order it.
What part of this do you not get?
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Our OWN spirit cannot choose God, it cannot even understand who God is.
Man can surely choose to read the bible, man can surely declare to himself yes I believe Christ is my savior. Yes man can certainly choose to read the bible and form all sorts of their own doctrines and believe in a false Christ. Man certainly can declare that he has saved himself through believing in the bible, of course that does not mean that it's true. For ONLY God reveals the TRUTH unto an individual, and it is ONLY God's SPIRIT that SAVES.
God chooses us and He reveals Himself to us and this is done through God GIVING His Spirit. The ONLY way for man to understand God is through the Spirit of God.
You say however that the spirit in man has been given a “free will” choice to follow the Spirit of God.
However scripture directly declares that the spirit in man can do NO SUCH THING, it is completely and utterly INCAPABLE of doing so.
The FLESH is WEAK, the FLESH profits us NOTHING, but YOU say that it is our own flesh within us that has the ability to choose God.
Such utter falsehood to say the flesh is strong, that the POWER to save ourselves is within ourselves, we just have to believe what is written. That is pure garbage IMO!!
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;* for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
What made Jesus a righteous and perfected man, thus bringing him into eternal life?…..it was the giving of God's Spirit.
The law proved that the spirit in man is incapable of bringing man's own self into righteousness. Christ PROVED that MAN NEEDS the Spirit of God.
What was IN Christ is promised to be given to us, that it may be IN us as well.
If Christ is IN us, we understand that it is the Spirit we need IN us, as it was IN Jesus.
Truly the majority of Christians understanding of Christ is so very shallow IMO.
Christ is the ANOINTED MAN, and he represents the FIRST of a new type of man, a type that God declares He will bring all into.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
How did God know ahead of time that Jesus would be the firstborn from the dead? Was it because He saw that Jesus would be the first man to choose from the power of his own spirit to follow perfectly His ways? Or was it because God knew how POWERFUL His own Spirit was once He placed it within man that it could cause perfection in man?
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