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Please see the first post on this thread, there are lot of scriptures quoted for you brother terraricca.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 20 2010,21:35)
Terraricca……..If we sin (WILLFULLY) Has nothing to do with us Having a (FREE WILL) (IN) US> As i explained earlier GOD allows us LIBERTY, to do our (CAPTIVATED WILLS) to a point.
If our wills are “CAPTIVATED” then how can we be free to do it?That would be a parodox!
WJ
gene,goll
it seems you like everything on the horse back one foot there one foot over the other side
we have no freewill but we are free,……….are will are captivated but not totally,you there and not there you are here but not here?
?WJ…….You have it, “FREE” WILL is an OXYMORON, A WILL can NOT be a WILL if It is (FREE) of any influence. A Will means it is being (INFLUENCED) of it simply would not be a WILL. The same with GOD and MAN. What people get mixed up is that Because GOD give us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED WILLS) that equates to a “FREE WILL” (IN) the Person. We are all held captive by forces causing our WILLS, they are far from “FREE”, Jesus came to set the (captives free) but then led us into another captivity, He led a host of captives captive. When we recieve the SPIRIT of GOD we recieve His Mind into us and this mind starts replacing our past captivity with it self a new captivity that of GOD. But never is our WILL'S FREE . All thing boil down to CAUSE and EFFECT . A person will always choose what influences him the most rather of GOD or the FLESH. IMO
peace and love……………..gene
Goll
show me the related scripture that says that God receive counsel,that's all i want ,i have read the bible 50 time if not more i have never encounter that scripture,
if you do not have any say so.
thank you
Terraricca………..Trying to hack up what people are saying to fit your ignorance understanding only shows your ignorance. If you can't understand something Just say that or don't say nothing at all. Better to let people think your a fool then to open your Mouth and show you are one. IMO
gene
you repeat what many are telling you just as i do ,but it does not get any were ,you just think that you have it right .no real prove just allusions
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2010,13:15) WJ…….You have it, “FREE” WILL is an OXYMORON, A WILL can NOT be a WILL if It is (FREE) of any influence. A Will means it is being (INFLUENCED) of it simply would not be a WILL. The same with GOD and MAN. What people get mixed up is that Because GOD give us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED WILLS) that equates to a “FREE WILL” (IN) the Person. We are all held captive by forces causing our WILLS, they are far from “FREE”, Jesus came to set the (captives free) but then led us into another captivity, He led a host of captives captive. When we recieve the SPIRIT of GOD we recieve His Mind into us and this mind starts replacing our past captivity with it self a new captivity that of GOD. But never is our WILL'S FREE . All thing boil down to CAUSE and EFFECT . A person will always choose what influences him the most rather of GOD or the FLESH. IMO peace and love……………..gene
GeneBut you said…”As i explained earlier GOD allows us LIBERTY, to do our (CAPTIVATED WILLS) to a point.”
If God “allows” to a point, then they are not at “liberty”. That is an “Oxymoron”.
Then again, explain Adam and Eve who had no infuence other than God. They were without sin.
Why do you keep dodging this point?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,05:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2010,13:15) WJ…….You have it, “FREE” WILL is an OXYMORON, A WILL can NOT be a WILL if It is (FREE) of any influence. A Will means it is being (INFLUENCED) of it simply would not be a WILL. The same with GOD and MAN. What people get mixed up is that Because GOD give us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED WILLS) that equates to a “FREE WILL” (IN) the Person. We are all held captive by forces causing our WILLS, they are far from “FREE”, Jesus came to set the (captives free) but then led us into another captivity, He led a host of captives captive. When we recieve the SPIRIT of GOD we recieve His Mind into us and this mind starts replacing our past captivity with it self a new captivity that of GOD. But never is our WILL'S FREE . All thing boil down to CAUSE and EFFECT . A person will always choose what influences him the most rather of GOD or the FLESH. IMO peace and love……………..gene
GeneBut you said…”As i explained earlier GOD allows us LIBERTY, to do our (CAPTIVATED WILLS) to a point.”
If God “allows” to a point, then they are not at “liberty”. That is an “Oxymoron”.
Then again, explain Adam and Eve who had no infuence other than God. They were without sin.
Why do you keep dodging this point?
WJ
They certainly had another influence, they had their own imaginations, they had CARNAL MINDS.This is something I posted on another thread a few weeks ago,
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
To take of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil brings forth death.
Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live…. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
Adam was being warned in the garden that if he followed his own understanding, to trust in it over God, that it would lead him into DEATH. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represented man's ability to think separately from God, and to think apart from God is to be separated from truth and therefore the creation of DECEIT would be inevitable!! The imagination of man is evil from his YOUTH. The imagination in man is what needs to be instructed and refined by God. Our imagination is a wonderful thing, it is what makes us individuals with a unique personality, however it is also responsible for creating deceit.
Micah 7:17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent; They shall crawl from their holes like snakes of the earth. They shall be afraid of the Lord our God, And shall fear because of You.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. 8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
Genesis 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
The CARNAL MIND is at enmity with God. Jesus overcame that carnal nature, he followed the Spirit and put to death man's sinful nature. The serpent was not a vessel of which some fallen angel was talking through. The serpent itself is said to be the most cunning beast God had made on earth. The serpent was punished into being a creature full of fear. The mind of man is the most cunning creature God had made on earth. Adam and Eve the second they realized they had been wrong hid themselves in fear. When man follows after his own understanding he is like an ignorant serpent or beast.
2 Peter 2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
When man follows his own understanding he is following ignorance and pride, he speaks deceit and it is his OWN corruption.
Judas was called the devil by Jesus for the thoughts that entered into him came from his own corrupted mind. Peter was called Satan for having IN MIND the things OF MEN. The dragon represents Kings who also are following after their OWN carnal minds.
The serpent in the garden represented that which exists in every man, the ability to corrupt God's truth through our own imaginations.
Sin and death did not come into the world through some fallen angel.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned–
The mind of Adam was the serpent in the garden. He created the deceit, and then Eve chose to eat of it and then Adam ate of it as well. The mind of Adam thought of the deceit, and both Adam and Eve believed it to be true, trusting in the carnal mind over God.
Adam and Eve lived according to their flesh, and God had warned Adam through the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that if they did so it would bring forth death.
We are directly told that it is in FOLLOWING the carnal mind that brings forth death.
What do ya think WJ?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 22 2010,14:17) We are directly told that it is in FOLLOWING the carnal mind that brings forth death. What do ya think WJ?
JodiI think you make a lot of assumptions.
It was the first Adams disobedience that brought death!
The first sin was disobeying YHWH's command to not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
The carnal mind is a result of that sin and then the fall.
When God created Adam and Eve without sin, he said it was good.
You are inferring that God would be saying that Adam and Eve had a carnal mind before they sinned and that YHWH was saying that the “Carnal Mind” was good.
God did not create man with a mind which was at “Enmity” with him or he wouldn't call it good!
“Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Rom 8:7
This is just more of the fallacious teachings of the “Carnal Mind” IMO!
What do you do with this verse…?
“But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but **HAS CONTROLL OVER HIS OWN WILL**, and who has made up his mind” not to marry the virgin–this man also does the right thing. 7:37
WJ
Jodi Lee said:
Quote The mind of Adam was the serpent in the garden. He created the deceit, and then Eve chose to eat of it and then Adam ate of it as well. The mind of Adam thought of the deceit, and both Adam and Eve believed it to be true, trusting in the carnal mind over God.
Jodi Lee,I have run into this nonsense before on another discussion board. The mind of Adam was not the serpent in the garden. Moses set up the headship principle of the man over the woman on the basis that the woman was first deceived. If Adam had created the deceit then Moses' principle that the man was the head of the woman was blatantly unjust.
I wanted to copy and paste excerpts from a debate I engaged in from another discussion board. The person I debated held your view. He ended up agreeing with me. But that forum has been remodeled and all the old discussions are gone. So I would like to debate you one on one in the “debates” forum.
Are you willing? If so I will start it.
p.s. I believe that the devil has been cast into the lake of fire. I reject the Futurist notion that the devil is alive and operating in the world today. But I insist that he was a personal being.
thinker
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 23 2010,06:17) Adam was being warned in the garden that if he followed his own understanding, to trust in it over God, that it would lead him into DEATH.
Hi Jodi,If Adam was created in gods image(as the bible declares he was),
how could following his own understanding lead to death?Your logic seems FLAWED; please explain?
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2010,05:19) Goll show me the related scripture that says that God receive counsel,that's all i want ,i have read the bible 50 time if not more i have never encounter that scripture,
if you do not have any say so.
thank you
If I may answer for Goli. Eph.1:11 … being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
Blessings.To all! I am sitting here and thinking how influenced some of you really are. A free will, is just that free. We are free to do whatever pleases us. If I don't want to follow Christ I will not. But I will follow Him because I see what HE has done for all man kind. It is still my will and not anyone's will. Some unfortunately will follow their own will not God's. Never the less, it is my will to follow Christ's example. And some will not. And that is their free will to do so…Have I been influenced by Jesus will, yes. But those that will not, have heard the same then what I have, yet will not. Their flesh is more important to them. Free will is just that- free- to chose whichever we want to. Otherwise it is not free. I believe that is what God wants. He wants us to chose of our free wills. He does not want robots. But again some will follow their own fleshly will. Is it unfluenced at all? That is a sticky question….Satan has influenced some his way and not God's. But again it is our free will to chose…..
Peace and Love IreneIrene……….No one is saying we are not GIVEN the (LIBERTY) to Exercise our (captivated)WILLS,that is not the point, the point (IS) do we HAVE IN US FREE WILLS, Is our WILLS Influenced WILLS or are they as falsely said a “FREE” WILL. That is the point were talking about. OUR PERSONAL WILL are HELD in a STATE of CAPTIVITY, and WE are always being influenced by them as Paul said “FOR THERE IS NO GOOD THING IN MY FLESH (WHY) BECAUSE TO (WILL) IS PRESENT , DO YOU GET WHAT PAUL'S WAS SAYING. Think about it.
peace and love to you and Georg……………..gene
Adam……..Terraricca rejects scriptures that plainly show our Wills are Captivated and Influenced WILL'S. We Have posted many many scriptures that show this point both I, you, Jodi, Chosenone, but they just can't comprehend it. I as well as themm have shown that as scripture sates, Eph 1:11…> “FOR GOD DOES (ALL) THINGS (AFTER) THE (COUNSEL) of His WILL, this clearly shows GOD'S WILL is a (counseled Will) it does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out. We also operate after the counsel of Our WILL, Neither is there in us a “FREE” WILL but counseled WILLS. Our influenced thoughts drive our wills they are far from “FREE”. They can find no where in scripture where it Say's we all have “FREE” WILLS , but shows the opposite, our will are captivated WILLS and we are held in that captivity until we are set Free from (THAT CAPTIVITY) into ANOTHER CAPTIVITY which is of GOD , that is why only (ONE) WILL, will be Done , this is how GOD will be (IN) all and (THOUGH) All.
peace and love to you and yours Adam…………….gene
Terraricca………..I and other have posted many, many, many, Scriptures, you simply ignore them and don't even consider them. It is pointless to even discuss this subject with you. You need to think about those scripture we have all posted instead of ignoring them. IMO
ED J…………I have read where those words in genesis should be translated as (Creating them in His image He is) showing more of a process taking place then an already completed state. Jesus is the first to come to the image of GOD , we are being conformed to that image, it an on going process taking place with us. Though you might find this interesting.
gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,05:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2010,13:15) WJ…….You have it, “FREE” WILL is an OXYMORON, A WILL can NOT be a WILL if It is (FREE) of any influence. A Will means it is being (INFLUENCED) of it simply would not be a WILL. The same with GOD and MAN. What people get mixed up is that Because GOD give us Liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED WILLS) that equates to a “FREE WILL” (IN) the Person. We are all held captive by forces causing our WILLS, they are far from “FREE”, Jesus came to set the (captives free) but then led us into another captivity, He led a host of captives captive. When we recieve the SPIRIT of GOD we recieve His Mind into us and this mind starts replacing our past captivity with it self a new captivity that of GOD. But never is our WILL'S FREE . All thing boil down to CAUSE and EFFECT . A person will always choose what influences him the most rather of GOD or the FLESH. IMO peace and love……………..gene
GeneBut you said…”As i explained earlier GOD allows us LIBERTY, to do our (CAPTIVATED WILLS) to a point.”
If God “allows” to a point, then they are not at “liberty”. That is an “Oxymoron”.
Then again, explain Adam and Eve who had no infuence other than God. They were without sin.
Why do you keep dodging this point?
WJ
WJ……..Your still not getting what were saying , God gives us (LIBERTY) to use our (CAPTIVATED) WILLS. But (WE) do what Our captivated WILLS < WILL to DO. Get what i am saying? So (WE) are NOT "FREE" WILLED a Will would not be a Will if it were FREE of any influences to say we have a "FREE WILL" is an OXYMORON, To say we May freely Exercise our influenced and Captivated WILLS is the way it really is.peace and love to you and yours……………gene
To all, hopefully you will not be offended by the length of this article, I have copied it from “The Concordant Publishing Concern”, and it reflects completely how I feel.
His Achievement Are We
Part OneOUR SAVIOUR GOD
GOD ALONE is our Saviour. Through Isaiah, He declares, “I, I, Yahweh am El [God]! And there is no Saviour apart from Me” (Isa.43:11). He is the Subjector and the Saviour: “An El, just, and a Saviour. And none is there except Me” (Isa.45:21).
Our need for God is an all-encompassing one. We need Him “every hour,” continually, not merely upon occasion. For at all times we either need to be saved from sinful practices or to be preserved in the paths of righteousness.
The presence of God’s saving power is often unrecognized, even among those in whom it is operating extensively. Ignorance of divine grace is a primary cause of human ingratitude. Men are inordinately proud of their self-control, for they suppose it to be their own creation. They do not realize that self-control, along with all else that is virtuous and agreeable, is always a fruit of the spirit (Gal.5:23); it is never a work of the flesh.
It is a major step forward when the unbeliever finally turns to God, having discovered that he is not really self-sufficient after all. It is at least as great an advancement when the believer repudiates all confidence in the flesh, and begins to rely upon God alone.
Whenever we are faithful, it is true, in a relative sense, that thus we “save ourselves” (for example, from withdrawing from the faith; cf 1 Tim.4:1,16). But we only do this in His grace. Therefore boasting in man is debarred: “Toil I—yet not I but the grace of God which is with me” (1 Cor.15: 10).
Our actions are God’s channels; they are not a source, but a conduit. Any course of action which we may take which is essential to a goal, is the fruit, not the root of salvation. Though practical salvation is through our works, it is not out of our works. For grace is not out of works, and salvation is both in and by grace. “Now if it is in grace, it is no longer out of works, else the grace is coming to be no longer grace” (Rom. 11:6). Should we be enabled to carry such marvelous salvation into effect in our lives, this will be so thanks to our Saviour, not ourselves: “For it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight” (Phil.2:13).
All that is faithful and pleasing to God is due in its entirety to His gracious provision and direction. A realization of this truth is essential to maturity and humility. For no one can walk humbly with his God who conceives of himself as the one who finally turns defeat into victory. Therefore, we must not boast of what we have “let” the Lord do in our lives. Submission to Him can never afford us an occasion for self-boasting, but only a further opportunity to thank God for His saving grace.
It wounds our self-respect to think that we might actually need such a gracious and powerful provision. And when we recognize God’s true grace, it cuts ever so deeply into our pride. Many are ready to assure us that such grace is neither given nor needed. We find such claims to be quite flattering; they make it easier for us to preserve our self-reliant attitudes and ways.
However, we will do well to consider the story of the gracious creditor and his two debtors, one of whom owed ten times more than the other. Since neither were able to pay, “he deals graciously with them both” (Luke 7:42). Though both were appreciative, it was the one “with whom he deals the more graciously” who was “loving him more” (Luke 7:42,43). Similarly, when God gives us an understanding and appreciation of the graciousness of His operations, both for us and in us, we are enabled to love Him more.
May we not, like Belshazzar, exalt ourselves over the Lord of the heavens, in Whose hand is our breath, and “for Whom” are all our paths (cf Dan.5:23). When we exalt ourselves, due to our failure to perceive God’s all-sufficient hand upon us, we fail to honor Him. When we take such an approach, our career can only be “weighed on the scales and found lacking” (cf Dan.5:27).TWO FUNDAMENTAL ERRORS
Most believers consider “free will” and “eternal punishment” to be foundational truth. However, a few consider these same concepts to be foundational error. Of course many among those on both sides of these questions have simply taken a position; most are not aware of the basic issues to be decided. Consequently, confusion is perpetuated, prejudice and ignorance prevail, and these important matters are never resolved.
We propose to examine many of the basic issues involved in these questions, such as faith, choice, foreknowledge, voluntary action, judgment and trials. The fulcrum point of our considerations will be God’s achievements through the death and resurrection of Christ. What is the scope of these achievements in our salvation and with respect to His ultimate purpose to become All in all?
The prevailing idea today is that God saves us (from “eternal punishment”) only after we first save ourselves from being disqualified for His alleged “gift.” While He wishes to assist us even in this, He will only do so if we are willing and cooperative. One must save himself from unwillingness. Finally, we are left on our own. When we need Him the most, He will do nothing. That is: God helps those who help themselves.
Though it is acknowledged that we cannot earn salvation, it is insisted that we still have to qualify for it! Such a claim is nonsensical, for “earn” and “qualify” are synonyms. The basic idea of compensation is common to both. For example: a successful salesman qualifies for a luxurious vacation by earning a sufficient number of bonus points.
The popular idea that we must qualify ourselves for salvation in order to escape being consigned to everlasting punishment is a repudiation of God’s grace. Besides, all power and ability come from God, Who alone is our gracious Saviour.
This is our theme throughout this study. The purpose for its writing is to make known this great truth. We are taking up the error of human free will first, and the error of everlasting punishment second.FAITH AND THE EVANGEL FOR TODAY
It is wonderful to know that “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners” (1 Tim.1:15), not merely to make it possible for sinners to be saved. Similarly, we were not conciliated to God through accepting Christ or believing in the death of His Son. Instead, “We were conciliated to God through the death of His Son” (Rom.5:10). Likewise, Christ did not die in order that our sins might be forgiven; for He would never need to die for God merely to forgive us. He died that God as our judge, might have a just basis for justifying us or declaring us righteous. He “was given up because of our offenses, and was roused because of our justifying” (Rom.4:25). We are “now justified in His blood” (Rom.5:9).
But this is only so “through Jesus Christ’s faith” (Rom.3:22), “the faith of Jesus” (Rom.3:26). This is what such passages as these say; they speak of Christ’s own faith, not of our faith in Christ. They no more mean our faith in Him, than the words “the faith of Abraham” (Rom.4:16) mean our faith in Abraham! It is incorrect to translate them otherwise. To do so is to interpret, not translate. But since men are so confident that they are saved (from “Hell”) through “accepting Christ,” they assume that any reference to faith in association with Christ must be their own, instead of His. They think of their own faith as what keeps them from being lost. Such a conception of “grace” is perfectly indistinguishable from a reward.THUS YOU BELIEVE
Faith is essential to our salvation, but it is not a “requirement.” It is “essential” only in the sense that there are none in Chr
ist but those who have faith in Him; they all genuinely believe that He died and rose (cf 1 Thess.4:14). All such ones are brethren in Christ. For God gives all His people at least some faith in at least this much. God is especially (though not exclusively) the Saviour of believers (1 Tim.4:10); it is these chosen ones who alone are “happening upon the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with glory eonian” (2 Tim.2:10).
Why did the Corinthians believe? Was it merely the result of a “free will” decision of their own, or was it because, like Paul, God’s powerful grace was with them in a wonderful way? To all who have eyes to see, Paul’s words concerning this matter are unmistakable:
Paul had been the foremost of sinners (1 Tim.1:15). For beyond all others, he had committed much contrary to the name of Jesus the Nazarene, and punished and persecuted the ecclesia of God exceedingly (1 Cor.15:9; Acts 9:1; 26:9-11). Therefore it required “all His patience” (1 Tim.1:16) for the Lord to deal with this terrible sinner and to graciously save him. Many years later, when writing his Ephesian epistle, Paul painfully recalled those evil days, and in light of them could only speak of himself as “less than the least of all saints” (Eph.3:8).
“Yet, in the grace of God I am what I am [now]” (1 Cor.15: 10a), Paul insists to the Corinthians. For the Lord had met him on the Damascus road. The faith and love of Christ Jesus came over him and changed him from being the foremost sinner among men into the faithful and obedient apostle to the nations, of whom we are to become imitators (1 Cor.11:1; Phil.3:17).
Paul accounts for the faith of the Corinthians (even as the heralding of the twelve, cf 1 Cor.12:5) on this same ground: “His grace, which is in me, did not come to be for naught, but more exceedingly than all of them toil I—yet not I, but the grace of God which is with me. Then, whether I or they, thus [houtos, THE-SAME-AS] we are heralding and thus you believe” (1 Cor.15: 10b, 11).
The grace of God is effective, not merely potential. Faith is God’s gracious gift to us, with which He overwhelms our former unbelief, imparting to all whom He calls a measure thereof, whenever it delights Him to unveil His Son in us (cf Phil.1:29; 1 Tim.1:13-16; Rom.12:3; Gal. 1:15,16). This proves that salvation is not a refusable offer, and that faith is not spiritual currency. Faith is not meritorious. Accepting Christ is not a transaction. Salvation is a gracious gift, not a covenant or agreement. Those who are yet of a mind to “strike a deal” with God, are in no mood to acknowledge their need of a Saviour.CHRIST PAID ALL
Salvation in Christ is not “the greatest bargain in all the universe,” for it is not a bargain at all. It is neither cheap nor expensive. It is free. We need not be “willing to pay the price,” for there is no price to pay. Christ paid it all. He was made sin; God condemned sin in the flesh in the sacrifice of His Son (2 Cor.5:21; Rom.8:3).
Salvation is not a reward for having done the right thing, or for “meeting conditions.” As with Abraham (Rom.4:16-21), our faith reveals to us what is already true, concerning what God has promised. It gives us assurance.
“God, Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling,” has promised to glorify and conform to the image of His Son, all those whom He chose “in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian;” this evangel “now is being manifested” (2 Tim.1:9,10). “Now you, brethren, as Isaac, are children of promise” (Gal.4:28; cf Rom.9:9-11). This is the gospel—not some offer of a way to escape “Hell.”
The customary “invitation” or “altar call” of today is simply a vain tradition of men (cf Mark 7:8). Since it “gets results,” it is used. Through it many become converts to the “Christian religion.” The number of those from among such throngs whom God Himself has already chosen is known to Him, not ourselves. Such popular techniques are based upon the false idea which has well been termed, “decisional regeneration.”
However, such presentations are not faithful ones. For Christ is to be announced and proclaimed, not offered as a “great opportunity” (cp Acts 13:38,39). This is to be done so that, “whoever were set for life eonian” (Acts 13:48; cf Eph.1:3-6) may believe “through grace” (Acts 18:27; cf Rom.10:14,15). “Yahweh, our Elohim, You are the Setter of welfare on the hearthstones for us, For, moreover, You contrive all our doings for us” (Isa.26:12).THOSE WHO ARE CHOSEN
It is no part of our calling or service today to be crying out to men, “Repent! for near is the kingdom of the heavens!” (Matt.3:2); or, “Return and turn away from all your transgressions, And your depravity shall not become a stumbling block to you” (Ezekiel 18:30). Instead, in this present “day of salvation” (2 Cor.6:2), we are to dispense “the word of the conciliation,” “how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them” (2 Cor.5:18, 19). This tremendous change in the divine dealings during the present administration is “the world’s riches” (Rom.11:12) quite apart from their acceptance or appreciation of it.
The terrible judgments which are predicted for “the conclusion of the eon” (Matt.24:3) are yet to come at the close of this present age. They are for that era. But this present era is not that future era. The present administration, as a foretaste of God’s glorious plans for the new creation, is not concerned with such matters. It is utterly anachronistic to herald wrath in a day of conciliation.
The evangel for today is to be proclaimed on behalf of those who are chosen, that they also may be happening upon the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with glory eonian (2 Tim.2: 10). Most of those who are naming the name of the Lord have never heard a clear presentation of the evangel of God. Instead they have been subjected to a great deal of confusion, in the midst of which, and in spite of all the error, “Christ crucified” was still proclaimed (cf 1 Cor.1:23). And, in such cases, God has used this marvelous message—not the contiguous “profane prattlings” which were also present (2 Tim.2:16)—to bring many of His people into the beginning of their life of faith. Therefore, “seeing that, by every method, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being announced, I am rejoicing in this also, and will be rejoicing nevertheless” (Phil.1:18).
The evangel is not to be conceived as the presentation of an investment opportunity, a “good deal,” through which all who are smart enough to recognize a good thing when they see it and willing to pay the price to “get in” may do so. One does not “join” the ecclesia (out-called ones) of God, as if it were a fraternal organization or some popular “church”: “Yet now God [the Placer] placed the members, each one of them, in the body according as He wills” (1 Cor.12:18).
The truth is, though we too were once terrible sinners, even as the rest, “when the kindness and fondness for humanity of our Saviour, God, made its advent,” it came to us “not for works which are wrought in righteousness which we do, but according to His mercy” (Titus 3:4,5a). God chose to be merciful to us, we did not put Him under obligation to be merciful. He decides to whom He will grant His mercy, and when He will do so. We did not qualify for it; therefore God was not obligated to give it.
Salvation is not afforded man at his own convenience, whenever he would care to take it to himself. Furthermore, there is no injustice with God in acting purposefully, choosing some for certain blessings and positions which He does not grant to others. “For to Moses He is saying, ‘I shall be merciful to whomever I may be merciful, and I shall be pitying whomever I may be pitying’” (Rom.9:15). When God is merciful to us, it is only because He is also gracious to
us (cp Exodus 33:19).
Most seem to conceive of one’s obtaining of the holy spirit in a way similar to that of Simon, the magician. Like him, they “infer that the gratuity of God is [somehow] to be acquired” (Acts 8:20). Whether one seeks to acquire the holy spirit through money, or faith, the principle is the same. God’s gifts are not for sale. Peter’s testimony to those who would represent salvation in Christ as an acquisition for which men may qualify, is, “Your heart is not straight in front of God. Repent, then, from this evil of yours” (Acts 8:21,22).
Let us rejoice in the realization that God is our Saviour!—“He saves us, through the bath of renascence and renewal of holy spirit, which He pours out on us richly through Jesus Christ, our Saviour” (Titus 3:5b,6). This is so, “that, being justified in that One’s grace, we may be becoming enjoyers, in expectation, of the allotment of life eonian” (Titus 3:7).James Coram
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(all other rights reserved by copyright holder).God Bless, Jerry.
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