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Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,14:51) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27) To All………the question is not, do we have WILLS, we definitely DO. The question (IS) are they (FREE) or not. I maintain they are (NOT) Free at ALL, But (INFLUENCED) Wills. Because there EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A “FREE” WILL. So in order to understand this we must understand what the word “FREE” truly means. Free means to exist in a state without (ANY) Influences , No such state exists with regards to a Will. Not man nor GOD, all Will contain influences and acts on the (GREATEST) of those influences. The very word, WILL itself shows us that, it is being influenced or it simply would Not be a WILL. Wills involve a determined desire that produces an outcome. They are Far from FREE. Many are getting LIBERTY or FREEDOM to (EXERCISE) THOSE (INFLUENCED WILLS), with the word “FREE WILL”. Scripture does not show that any so-called “FREE” Will exists. But shows WILLS exist in a state of being held Captive by our Thoughts. No one here has proven differently by any supportive scriptures yet produced.
Kerwin……..You are right in regards to GOD setting up situations in our lives, to prove us, I have had that happen to me before. Once when i was in business as an Electrical Contractor, I had a situation come up that at the time I had no idea GOD Hand was involved until later it became very obvious. I had bid a Job that required a Special large 1200 amp Electrical 3 phase 4 wire service it was quite expensive around 10,000.00 Dollars, it was for a church, and the Pastor said it would take about 30 day to raise the money needed , so I ask the supply house if they could hold the price for thirty days, He said thy would, so within the thirty days the pastor of the church called and said He had the money needed a told me to go ahead and order the service Panel. When i went to the Supply house and told them to go ahead and order it , They informed me it would be another Two thousand Dollars for it. I informed them that i had entered into a contract with the Church for it and could not go back and ask for more money from them. But they refused to lower the price to the original quote, so I became furious with them and said I would no longer do any business with them again, and went storming out and When i came back to the office , I told my secretary what had happened, and said i will have to Just take the loss and order it from another supplier which was about two thousand dollars more, I had no sooner told Her that when the Phone rang and another electrical contractor who I never knew wanted to talk with Me , He informed me that he had Heard that i Bought used Eclectically equipment from a friend, and He had some He wanted to sell, I ask him what it was, and He said a 1200 Hundred amp electrical service Panel which he had ordered for a Job and the owner had went bankrupt, and He has it sitting at the site it was brand New and never been installed, It was even better then the one I had bid on because it was an Outdoor service instead of an indoor one that i had bid. So I ask him what He wanted for it and he said 2700.00 Dollars. Now the odds of that ever happening accidentally would be One in a BILLION . That service panel Had be sitting there months, before My situation happened. I earnestly believe GOD did that to prove my integrity. if i would keep my the word of my bid or not. And i would have even if it cost me another 2,000.00 dollars more. Then GOD gave me the blessing. So I do believe GOD sets up situations in our lives to try us and test our resolves It gives us courage to continue to do those things that are right also, and He rewards us for doing what is right.
Some would say, see that was to test your “FREE” WILL, but no it was not, GOD already knew what i Would DO, It was to encourage me to continue to do what was right in GOD'S EYES, and Not the way of the World.
I maintain there is (NO) Such Thing as a “FREE” WILL, but (ONLY) INFLUENCED WILLS that are allowed Liberty or Freedom to chose it's (INFLUENCED DESIRES), by GOD. But in the end ONLY ONE WILL will be DONE and THAT IS GOD”S WILL> IMO
peace and love to you all…………………..gene
Hi Gene,10,000-2,700= $7,200
How much of the ($7,200) savings did you pass on to the Church?Ed J
ED J …..A better question would be why did you bring up this subject. What does that have to do with anything. That has nothing to do with the point i was making, Rather i gave it all or Kept it all, it was all in my power to do as i so Chose.Trying to create negative images is a sin ED J. What if i said non , because the church was a synagogue of Satan, or if i said i gave it all to them, Whats your Point?
Hi Gene,'it was all in my power to do as i so Chose'.
Thank you; My point was…
You just helped me PROVE “Free Will”!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNick……….That is right, GOD works in us both to (WILL) and do of His good pleasure. We all must be freed from our carnal wills, and conformed to the will of GOD> “Free Wills, have nothing to do with it only Whose Will is being done. Ours or GOD'S.
gene
i am not captivated by my will,it is very clear in my mind and heart that in consideration of all things known to me and understood that God my creator has the best offer and i have gone to him so that i may do his will ,not that i do not have a will ,but lining up my will with his will not the devil one.
this means learning and apply Gods knowledge ,and let the truth be the guide of my live.
the influence is mine to take or reject ,this may depend on my maturity of mind.many people chose dead in a way of live ,like soldiers,special squad,people use drugs,do very dangerous tasks,sports,ect this is there choice you are not born with a parachute,you are not born a drug addict,you are not born soldier, you become one of them,
i learn to smoke cigarettes wen i was 12 years old ,it was cool at that time ,my body reject it but i was in no way to lessen.it took me seven years to come to the understanding i was killing myself,so i quit that's that.
it was not easy but i add the will to get out that killing ring. yes i was influenced by willing to live.
this is the same thinking wen you go to God and start to do his will ,because you chose to live,but it is not in your own way ,it is in Gods way and obedience is a must ,by applying your obedience to is will you showing that you believe that he exist,after learning of his plan ,you share it with others ,you now show faith.and this way we learn about Gods love ;what is Gods love ,well God does not need anyone he is self oneness,
but he stat to work ,and everything he does is for others not for himself,and this is true love ,we all should learn to obtain,and will ,because it will be the only law in Gods kingdom.Adam……….Amen to that, Jodi has written it right brother. The Spirit of GOD is Truly apparent in her life.
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
gene
your acceptance of Jodi views, is influence by your believe against man freewill responsibilities.
is this true ??
terraricca………You could not be further from the truth, I have read Jodi's Post's for over three years and believe me She is quite accurate in her explanations and uses (many) scriptures to back up her views. You are serving your God the adversary by trying to cause division in the body of Christ. IMO
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,16:10) i learn to smoke cigarettes wen i was 12 years old ,it was cool at that time ,my body reject it but i was in no way to lessen.it took me seven years to come to the understanding i was killing myself,so i quit that's that.
it was not easy but i add the will to get out that killing ring. yes i was influenced by willing to live.
Terraricca……….Good Job, YOURSELF DID IT, I can tell by all the (I's) you used, so you glory in YOUR accomplishments.No let me tell you a story about Smoking, I had smoked for about 14 years, and like you came to see the damage this habit was doing to me, So I decided to quite, I tried for a full year , i would put nearly whole packs of Cigarettes under water and throw them away, and before the night was over i would be digging snipes out of my ash trays in the car. This went on back and forward for a year , but no matter how hard i tried i just could not beat the Nicotine habit, So I accepted defeat , but decided to take it to GOD in Prayer and Talk with HIM about it. I told GOD that I could not stop smoking and was no longer going to try and If He did not remove this from Me i would continue to smoke for the rest of my life. I had a half full pack of cigarettes in my shit pocket and I had admitted to him complete defeat and was through fighting the addiction. When I got up from that prayer i was waiting for the erg to come back , But it did not so i went for One day and no erg to smoke and then two day them three and soon a month and i still carried around the cigarettes just in case i wanted them again, and after 3 or 4 months i throw them away , and for 12 years I did not so much have even a erg to smoke again, It was as if i never had smoked at all.
But wait this is not the end of the story, after 12 years i was going through a tough time in my life and went to a Bar and was sitting there drinking and thinking about my problems, and a guy was beside me smoking and i ask for a cigarette not because i had a erg for a cigarette, but because i had nothing to do, Well before the night was over i have brought a pack and started the smoking habit again , this went on for 12 more years, and again it tried to quite I brought Patches went to a doctor and every thing you could think of but could not quite, i was just as addicted as i was the first time i tried and tried to quit and i kept failing again and again. Then I remembered When GOD took the Habit away from me before and Went again to him in prayer and said i would not blame his if He did not remove this Habit again seeing He had did it once before, but i ask if He would again, and when i got up from that prayer i did not have a desire to smoke and that was eleven years ago and have not had so much as a desire to smoke from that day until now, it is as if i never smoked in my life. GOD did it again, His mercy never fails.
So theres the difference between us, You did it (YOURSELF) BY your so-called “Free” WILL, I did it through the POWER OF GOD.
The Glory of my quitting belongs to GOD , the Glory of your quitting belongs to you and your so-called “FREE” Will.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2010,15:29) jodi your comment;People need to get over the idea that now is the time for all to be saved because it makes YHWH our Heavenly Father look like a complete and pathetic FAILURE. All will be made part of the body of Christ, because the body of Christ reflects what God can accomplish in man, NOT what man can accomplish through his so called “free will”. Those who have been called should not boast, they just happened to receive grace FIRST, and those YET to be called had to be used as a tool to teach truth, it could have easily been the other way around.
were you force to set up this respond of yours
what forces did make you do it ??
are your views the reflection of your influences??
influenced by what or whom?it is Gods call to all men ,but it is to men to willingly accepted the offer.(blessed are the ones who believe )
Hi terraricca,Not sure where you are coming from with the word “force”. I didn't not use that word and it does not fit in with my understanding at all.
What I clearly stated was that God's influences are more powerful then that of man's. Think about that for a minute. When a person is denying the “gospel” (whatever version it is they are getting), is it because man's own influences are stronger then God's? Is it because that person is just too evil? Or might it be because they have not yet been given by God, not only the True Gospel, but the full extent of His influences that lead an individual into accepting it?
Shall we say that the powers of the carnal mind with it's influence to do evil is MORE POWERFUL than the powers of the Holy Spirit with it's influence to be righteous? The creature that YHWH created for His own glory of which He said that He would be ALL in ALL, is more powerful than his Creator?
Gene
i only told part of the story,wen i stop it was about six month in my reading in the scriptures ,and that's were i came to the conclusion that this was not a way to respect Gods temple,
and the fact i have and use the I word it is the way i construct my phrases,and English is not my mother thong,
it is not as you say at all.Jodi
your explanation is totally correct and i agree with it,but it is all addressed to the righteous one ,the ones who believes,but very few have had a live like timothy with Paul; we usually we come as gentiles out of wickedness
we live our own live according to our ways,
i agree that God will save the ones with the true hearts ,but will not for that reason let him go free on all is sins,( look at David)
but the reason of my obstination to freewill (and i do not believe in the philosophical means of all the different freewill views available,this is why i qualify my meaning of it )it is imperative to me that the sacrifice of your live to God as to be done freely and of your own will to be able to last for ever,
this is why God looks for willing worshipers and not for influence decision,he has already have a nation like that Israel,and it did not worked.so he change and calls on the market places.Mt 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard.
Mt 20:2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
Mt 20:3 “About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing.
Mt 20:4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’
Mt 20:5 So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing.
Mt 20:6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
Mt 20:7 “ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
Mt 20:8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
Mt 20:9 “The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius.
Mt 20:10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.
Mt 20:11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.
Mt 20:12 ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
Mt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius?
Mt 20:14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you.
Mt 20:15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
Mt 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”this is the gospel being preached all over to who ever want it to respond.
and Christ also say to calculate the cost first before building.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2010,05:43) Jodi force +influence or forced powers outside of your own will
Sorry, I'm not getting what you mean by this? Could you explain it more please?Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2010,05:41) Jodi
your explanation is totally correct and i agree with it,but it is all addressed to the righteous one ,the ones who believes,but very few have had a live like timothy with Paul; we usually we come as gentiles out of wickedness
we live our own live according to our ways,
i agree that God will save the ones with the true hearts ,but will not for that reason let him go free on all is sins,( look at David)
but the reason of my obstination to freewill (and i do not believe in the philosophical means of all the different freewill views available,this is why i qualify my meaning of it )it is imperative to me that the sacrifice of your live to God as to be done freely and of your own will to be able to last for ever,
this is why God looks for willing worshipers and not for influence decision,he has already have a nation like that Israel,and it did not worked.so he change and calls on the market places.Mt 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard.
Mt 20:2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
Mt 20:3 “About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing.
Mt 20:4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’
Mt 20:5 So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing.
Mt 20:6 About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
Mt 20:7 “ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
Mt 20:8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
Mt 20:9 “The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius.
Mt 20:10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius.
Mt 20:11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner.
Mt 20:12 ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
Mt 20:13 “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius?
Mt 20:14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you.
Mt 20:15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
Mt 20:16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”this is the gospel being preached all over to who ever want it to respond.
and Christ also say to calculate the cost first before building.
Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' 16 “But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.” …..27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?” 35 “Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?” 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
The Gospel is NOT solely about excepting that a righteous man died and paid the penalty for your sins. The Gospels is about knowing that the man became righteous and able to follow God perfectly because he was put under the leadership of God's Spirit. The Gospel is about knowing that Christ replaced the TYPE of man we can be, In God's Spirit we are no longer as Adam, but as Jesus, the heavenly man.
I think it is totally a false gospel to go around telling people that Christ is their savior and if they don't accept him they are doomed.
The Gospel is about HOW Jesus became to be the man that he IS, and then telling people that at an opportune time their Heavenly Father is coming to work change in them as He did for Jesus!! I'd tell them “WATCH OUT because YHWH is coming after you, and He is going to make a NEW man out of you!!” I would tell them that “Christ died so ALL could be resurrected and come to the knowledge of the TRUTH.” And I 'd say, “You might not believe it now, but one day God's Spirit is going to consume you with Fire, where you cannot escape the burning away of your carnal nature, where you will be left with a mind united in the Spirit and a body that can no longer die.”
Jodi……….There you go, got me dancing the Jig again, You have no idea what the Spirit of Truth does to me when i Hear it. God Bless you little one. That is the (GOOD NEWS) OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST. WE profess GOD and Do not deny His POWER to SAVE ALL>
peace and love to you and yours Jodi………………….gene
Hi brother Gene,
The sad thing is even true believers don't want to see the truth you bring out on Myth of Free Will. They think they are the masters of their destiny. you example on smoking is the evidence how it negates Free will.Love and peace
AdamJodi
I think it is totally a false gospel to go around telling people that Christ is their savior and if they don't accept him they are doomed.
you see Jodi ,this is your thinking and understanding ,influenced by your religion you are attending.
this is your choice ,and i respect that ,but only so far,the truth as to stay truth,
if some one use the scriptures ,he is using the word of God not is own,and that s were i have a probleme with there explanation of Gods word,
here is were divisions starts,and religion comes in,
and i want to be guided by God not by men, but this is my spirit,understanding Gods spirit through Christ.Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 13 2010,05:18) People need to get over the idea that now is the time for all to be saved because it makes YHWH our Heavenly Father look like a complete and pathetic FAILURE. All will be made part of the body of Christ, because the body of Christ reflects what God can accomplish in man, NOT what man can accomplish through his so called “free will”. Those who have been called should not boast, they just happened to receive grace FIRST, and those YET to be called had to be used as a tool to teach truth, it could have easily been the other way around.
Hi Jodi,2 Cor. 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted,
and in the day of salvation have I succored thee: behold,
now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Hebrews 3:7 Wherefore (as the HolySpirit saith, To day if ye will hear His voice,
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:Luke 8:11…13 Now the parable is this: The seed is The (HolySpirit) Word of God.
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy;
and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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