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Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 11 2010,23:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 12 2010,05:14) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 11 2010,12:49) I am a little surprised that a man of your learning must be taught that the first part of the “Lord's prayer” is doxological. thinker
JackWhy the Patronizing remark?
I haven't even discussed the Lords Prayer. Are you trying to say that Jesus did not have the free will to do as he willed?
Blessings WJ
Hi Kieth,Of course there is “Free Will”!
Just because there is influence on our “Wills”,
does NOT take away our “FREEDOM” to CHOSE!Freedom to chose: IS “Free Will”!
No “Free will” is a bunch of garbage!God bless you Kieth!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNote: The usage of satan's 'title' in Jack's sarcastic remark; Kieth?
Ed jThere is not a lot that I agree with you, but on this I do!
T has given an excellent scripture, there are many others that prove the same. Adam and Eve who were created perfect is the example of free will in that there was no influence in their lives (Except Gods), yet when the Tempter came Adam with eyes wide open commited sin by the act of his own free will.
To me saying that we do not have the freedom to choose but are only bound to act out what influences us, is just a license to sin. It sounds like this, “the devil made me do it”.
There is no purpose of Judgment and rewards if all of us are merely puppets or robots bound to only act out the influences that come in our lives!
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 11 2010,23:09) Note: The usage of satan's 'title' in Jack's sarcastic remark; Kieth?
No I don't see the usage of satans title. Jack is a good brother. He has oppologised for his patronistic remark and his oppology is truly accepted!It would do well that others who constantly accuse and patronize would follow his example and also repent for not being of the right Spirit!
Blessings WJ
gene
What So-called “FREE” Willer's are saying is that they by NO outside Influences, they decide by (THEIR) OWNthat description of free will is a philosophical stupidity,i have many times show you that our freewill is related to our boundaries of our creation ,i do not know if you understand boundaries of our creation.
God works obedience through working His Spirit into the carnal mind. God draws people to the understanding of Christ, which is the reflection of what God can do in EVERY MAN. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ is believing that as God anointed a man causing perfection in him, He can do the same for us.
God CAN and it is His WILL to give this grace to ALL!
Jesus CHOSE to deny the desires of the flesh because the Spirit of God was in him. When God's Spirit is working in man it awakens man to see just how foolish man is, it reveals how much of an ignorant idiot he is. God's Spirit reveals truth that is so powerful it exposes the foolish things of the world.
Others seem to confess however that the spirit in man is stronger, more intelligent, and more INFLUENTIAL then God's. Yep man sure does like to make himself a god, and put himself above God however he can. The idea that man's own carnal influences are more POWERFUL then that of God's Spirit is truly disgusting.
Jesus was known before time began to be a savior, how could that be, unless God knew what He could accomplish in His own creation?
The problem is most Christians seem to believe that the calling of every man is before they die, through a preacher and a bible. Churches invest their lives on SAVING SOULS, as if it were their God given calling. The truth be, that NOW is the calling of kings and priests that will serve with Christ. Are they being called to be leaders and priests to themselves? NO, of course not. The gospel of Christ and it's truth God chose to use for the calling of leaders, but after Christ returns the Sons of God will be revealed, and they along with Christ will be the work of God that calls every man.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Revelations 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
People need to get over the idea that now is the time for all to be saved because it makes YHWH our Heavenly Father look like a complete and pathetic FAILURE. All will be made part of the body of Christ, because the body of Christ reflects what God can accomplish in man, NOT what man can accomplish through his so called “free will”. Those who have been called should not boast, they just happened to receive grace FIRST, and those YET to be called had to be used as a tool to teach truth, it could have easily been the other way around.
Romans 11:27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?” 35 “Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?” 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 12 2010,13:18) Others seem to confess however that the spirit in man is stronger, more intelligent, and more INFLUENTIAL then God's. Yep man sure does like to make himself a god, and put himself above God however he can. The idea that man's own carnal influences are more POWERFUL then that of God's Spirit is truly disgusting.
JodiOk, then tell us why YHWH did not keep Adam and Eve from sin being that they were created perfect and without sin?
The only influence they had was God telling them to “not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil”!
Yet when the Tempter came Adam sinned with his eyes wide open by following the Tempters advice that YHWH was lying and if he ate he would be “like god knowing good and evil”.
Which was greater, Gods influence or the Tempters?
Of course Gods will and influence is more powerful yet it is obvious that in the case of Adam and Eve his influence was not followed.
Adam and Eve freely chose to act against YHWHs words.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 12 2010,13:18) People need to get over the idea that now is the time for all to be saved because it makes YHWH our Heavenly Father look like a complete and pathetic FAILURE.
What makes YHWH look like a failure is to say that God has control over mans will while he is killing, raping, stealing, molesting children, ETC!What makes man different than any other creature is he has the freedom to choose to act out either good or evil!
WJ
Hi Jodi
You do believe Pauls words don't you…?
But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion “but **has** control over his own will“, and “who has **made up** his mind” not to marry the virgin–this man also does the right thing. 1 Cor 7:37
The word *Has*” and *Made up* are both Greek words in the “Present Tense” and the “Active Voice” which means they are statement of facts and that the subject is doing the action!
Blessings WJ
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 12 2010,13:18) God draws people to the understanding of Christ, which is the reflection of what God can do in EVERY MAN.
Hi JodiDraw
to cause to move in a particular direction by or as if by a pulling force; pull; drag (often fol. by along, away, in, out, or off). SourceAnd I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will **draw** all men unto me. John 12:32
The Greek word for **draw** is Strong's G1670 – helkō which means;
1) to draw, drag off
2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that “the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Rom 2:4
God leads but all do not repent, we must follow…
Now the just shall live by faith: but “if any man **draw back**, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Heb 10:38
The term **draw back** is the Greek word Strong's G5288 – hypostellō which means;
1) to draw back, let down, lower
a) to withdraw: of a timid person
2) to withdraw one's self, i.e. to be timid, to cover, shrink
a) of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe
b) to be unwilling to utter from fear
c) to shrink from declaring, to conceal, dissemble
It is in the “Middle Voice”, which indicates the subject performing an action upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit. E.g., “The boy groomed himself.”
Blessings
Terraricca……..So What does boundaries of creation have to do with Us having a (non Scriptural) “FREE WILL” Are you adding more into the mix to confuse the issue. NO One has Shown that (WE) posses A “FREE WILL” i AM TALKING ABOUT OUR VERY OWN SELVES, NOT THAT WE HAVE FREEDOM TO EXERCISE OUR (captivated) WILLS. There is nothing “FREE” whatsoever about (OUR) WILLS. The FREEDOM you people are confusing is our GOD give us freedom to exercise them, not that they are FREE WILLS. The Adversarial Spirit wants us to believe our VERY OWN WILL are a “FREE WILL> Pure garbage, Scripture Shows them as captivated by our Thoughts and Must be Changed to the WILL OF GOD and that requires GOD to be (IN) US. 'FOR GOD (WORKS) (IN) US (BOTH TO WILL) AND DO OF (HIS ) GOOD PLEASURE”. IT'S NOT ABOUT OUR ENSLAVED WILLS, IT'S ABOUT GOD THE FATHER'S WILL. In order for HIS WILL to be done (HE) must be (IN) US, (causing us to do His will) by HIS Spirit (intellect). “For it is (NOT) (WITHIN) a Man to direct his Paths”. God must put that in us and that process sets us (FREE) from our captivated Wills and delivers us unto His captivity. And our new captivated Wills become His will we think and act like He does because of His Spirit Intellect in us. But as long as we are in this flesh, the Present of our flesh wills will effect us. That is why Paul said, “for in MY FLESH DWELLS NO GOOD THING BECAUSE (TO WILL) IS PRESENT”. Does anyone here understand this?
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,10:23) Terraricca……..So What does boundaries of creation have to do wit Us having a (non Scriptural) “FREE WILL” Are you adding more into the mixto confusse the issue. NO One has Shown that (WE) posses A “FREE WILL” i AM TALKING ABOUT OUR VERY OWN SELVES, NOT THAT WE HAVE FREEDOM TO EXERCISE OUR (captivated) WILLS. There is nothing “FREE” whatsoever about (OUR) WILLS. The FREEDOM you people are confusing is our GOD freedom to excerpter them, not that ther are FREE WILL. The Advaserial Spirit wan't us to believe our VERY OWN WILL are a “FREE WILL> Pure garbage, Scripture Shows them as captivated by our Thoughts and Must be Changed to the WILL OF GOD and that requires GOD to be (IN) US. 'FOR GOD (WORKS) (IN) US (BOTH TO WILL) AND DO OF (HIS ) GOOD PLEASURE”. iT'S NOT ABOUT OUR ENSLAVED WILLS, IT'S ABOUT GOD THE FATHER'S WILL. In order for HIS WILL to be done (HE) must be (IN) US, (causing us to do His will) by HIS Spirit (intellect). “For it is (NOT) with in a Man to direct his Paths”. God must put that in us and that process sit us (FREE) from our captivated Wills and delivers us unto His captivity. And our new captivated Wills become His will we think and act like He does because of His Spirit Intellect in us. But as long as we are in this flesh, the Present of our flesh wills will effect us. That is why Paul said for in MY FLESH DWELLS NO GOOD THING BECAUSE (TO WILL) IS PRESENT. Does anyone here understand this?
Hi Gene,You can believe whatever you want (influenced will=No Will), but answer this “One Question”.
If we don't have “Free Will” (as is your assertion), then why did Jesus tell us to Pray after this manor…Matt.6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.And why is this verse even in the Bible…
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed.I ain't part of your 'robot world'; because I “DO” have MY VERY OWN “Free Will”!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNote: satan's 'title' in red.
ED J……………..You answered your own question. If we have a “FREE WILL” then why is it ONLY GOD”S WILL will be done. Obviously that would not include (OUR WILLS) Being DONE. OR perhaps you think Jesus was saying GOD'S Will will be done, if (OUR) so-called “FREE” Wills decide it is OK for (HIS) WILL to be DONE. A robot ideology has nothing to do with it, Just right and wrong only. However your reactions are right in line with those who hate the Idea of GOD'S WILL being DONE. God's WILL or YOUR OWN So-called non existent “FREE” WILL.
A will can not be a will if it has no influence , the very word Will itself means influenced desires. I fully realize the SELF Pride of People Hate the idea of their (CAPTIVATED WILLS) but non the less that is the truth. The Apostle Paul knew what His will was, saying “no good thing dwells in his flesh (because) to (WILL) is Present. Please stay with scriptures instead of inserting you personal reasonings.
Please address the quoted and posted scriptures instead of veering off into another non related questions. This is what caused confusions here, some do not deal with the specific issues. It would Help if everyone would start by understanding what a WILL (IS). IMO
gene
here is dictionary explanation;
Will (philosophy), or willpower, is a philosophical concept that is defined in several different ways
Free Will, the trait that produces conscious choices and actions.
The Will to Power, a prominent concept in the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche
True Will, found within the mystical system of Thelema
Will (sociology), a concept introduced by Ferdinand Tönnies in 1887
Volition (psychology), the cognitive process by which an individual decides on and commits to a particular course of actionboundaries of creation ;means,
just like you create a animal park were all they animals are free to act in their on nature only limited to the park limit fence.
this yuo understand,limited freewill. means free to do and go within the fence.Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27) To All………the question is not, do we have WILLS, we definitely DO. The question (IS) are they (FREE) or not. I maintain they are (NOT) Free at ALL, But (INFLUENCED) Wills. Because there EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A “FREE” WILL. So in order to understand this we must understand what the word “FREE” truly means. Free means to exist in a state without (ANY) Influences , No such state exists with regards to a Will. Not man nor GOD, all Will contain influences and acts on the (GREATEST) of those influences. The very word, WILL itself shows us that, it is being influenced or it simply would Not be a WILL. Wills involve a determined desire that produces an outcome. They are Far from FREE. Many are getting LIBERTY or FREEDOM to (EXERCISE) THOSE (INFLUENCED WILLS), with the word “FREE WILL”. Scripture does not show that any so-called “FREE” Will exists. But shows WILLS exist in a state of being held Captive by our Thoughts. No one here has proven differently by any supportive scriptures yet produced.
Kerwin……..You are right in regards to GOD setting up situations in our lives, to prove us, I have had that happen to me before. Once when i was in business as an Electrical Contractor, I had a situation come up that at the time I had no idea GOD Hand was involved until later it became very obvious. I had bid a Job that required a Special large 1200 amp Electrical 3 phase 4 wire service it was quite expensive around 10,000.00 Dollars, it was for a church, and the Pastor said it would take about 30 day to raise the money needed , so I ask the supply house if they could hold the price for thirty days, He said thy would, so within the thirty days the pastor of the church called and said He had the money needed a told me to go ahead and order the service Panel. When i went to the Supply house and told them to go ahead and order it , They informed me it would be another Two thousand Dollars for it. I informed them that i had entered into a contract with the Church for it and could not go back and ask for more money from them. But they refused to lower the price to the original quote, so I became furious with them and said I would no longer do any business with them again, and went storming out and When i came back to the office , I told my secretary what had happened, and said i will have to Just take the loss and order it from another supplier which was about two thousand dollars more, I had no sooner told Her that when the Phone rang and another electrical contractor who I never knew wanted to talk with Me , He informed me that he had Heard that i Bought used Eclectically equipment from a friend, and He had some He wanted to sell, I ask him what it was, and He said a 1200 Hundred amp electrical service Panel which he had ordered for a Job and the owner had went bankrupt, and He has it sitting at the site it was brand New and never been installed, It was even better then the one I had bid on because it was an Outdoor service instead of an indoor one that i had bid. So I ask him what He wanted for it and he said 2700.00 Dollars. Now the odds of that ever happening accidentally would be One in a BILLION . That service panel Had be sitting there months, before My situation happened. I earnestly believe GOD did that to prove my integrity. if i would keep my the word of my bid or not. And i would have even if it cost me another 2,000.00 dollars more. Then GOD gave me the blessing. So I do believe GOD sets up situations in our lives to try us and test our resolves It gives us courage to continue to do those things that are right also, and He rewards us for doing what is right.
Some would say, see that was to test your “FREE” WILL, but no it was not, GOD already knew what i Would DO, It was to encourage me to continue to do what was right in GOD'S EYES, and Not the way of the World.
I maintain there is (NO) Such Thing as a “FREE” WILL, but (ONLY) INFLUENCED WILLS that are allowed Liberty or Freedom to chose it's (INFLUENCED DESIRES), by GOD. But in the end ONLY ONE WILL will be DONE and THAT IS GOD”S WILL> IMO
peace and love to you all…………………..gene
Hi Gene,10,000-2,700= $7,200
How much of the ($7,200) savings did you pass on to the Church?Ed J
Terraricca……….the cognitive process by whch and individual decides on and commits to a particular course of action. That indeed explain what a WILL is, but where doe it say that those cognitive process are (FREE) of influences, because that is what a true “FREE” WILL would consists of. IN fact our cognitive Process are results of Past associations and are far from being FREE. For Instance If i offered you a choice between three pieces of Pie, a Cherry , Apple, or a Coconut, would your Just pick any < No your would pick the one that most influences you and that influence was put there by past associations. A man will always chose what influences His most and what influences Him the Most was acquired from past association. The is not a FREE WILL but a predetermined WILL. Your choice was already predetermined before you ever had the offer by past assoications. "FOR ALL THAT IS IN THE WORLD , THE LUST OF THE FLESH , THE LUST OF THE EYES, THE PRIDE OF LIFE ARE FROM THE WORLD". Our Wills are driven by these things and are Hardly "FREE".
And while GOD has given us a Liberty to exercise them in no way are they “FREE” in themselves. Your example of animals in a park is good to illustrate the point, and animal may be FREE to exercise His desires in the Park , but He will always do what is (IN) HIM therefore His behavior is predictable the same with Humans. The animal is Held captive by the instincts put in HIM, he does not randomly do things.
Humans are of a higher intellect but they also do only what most influences them, If these Thoughts be evil then they will do evil to what ever degree that influence is in them. We must all be set FREE From these wrong influences and be given the Right influences (BY) GOD, them we will Chose as He Choses, But non of this has to do with any so-called “FREE” WILLS, but rather a predetermined WILL of GOD. IMO
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 13 2010,14:15) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27) To All………the question is not, do we have WILLS, we definitely DO. The question (IS) are they (FREE) or not. I maintain they are (NOT) Free at ALL, But (INFLUENCED) Wills. Because there EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A “FREE” WILL. So in order to understand this we must understand what the word “FREE” truly means. Free means to exist in a state without (ANY) Influences , No such state exists with regards to a Will. Not man nor GOD, all Will contain influences and acts on the (GREATEST) of those influences. The very word, WILL itself shows us that, it is being influenced or it simply would Not be a WILL. Wills involve a determined desire that produces an outcome. They are Far from FREE. Many are getting LIBERTY or FREEDOM to (EXERCISE) THOSE (INFLUENCED WILLS), with the word “FREE WILL”. Scripture does not show that any so-called “FREE” Will exists. But shows WILLS exist in a state of being held Captive by our Thoughts. No one here has proven differently by any supportive scriptures yet produced.
Kerwin……..You are right in regards to GOD setting up situations in our lives, to prove us, I have had that happen to me before. Once when i was in business as an Electrical Contractor, I had a situation come up that at the time I had no idea GOD Hand was involved until later it became very obvious. I had bid a Job that required a Special large 1200 amp Electrical 3 phase 4 wire service it was quite expensive around 10,000.00 Dollars, it was for a church, and the Pastor said it would take about 30 day to raise the money needed , so I ask the supply house if they could hold the price for thirty days, He said thy would, so within the thirty days the pastor of the church called and said He had the money needed a told me to go ahead and order the service Panel. When i went to the Supply house and told them to go ahead and order it , They informed me it would be another Two thousand Dollars for it. I informed them that i had entered into a contract with the Church for it and could not go back and ask for more money from them. But they refused to lower the price to the original quote, so I became furious with them and said I would no longer do any business with them again, and went storming out and When i came back to the office , I told my secretary what had happened, and said i will have to Just take the loss and order it from another supplier which was about two thousand dollars more, I had no sooner told Her that when the Phone rang and another electrical contractor who I never knew wanted to talk with Me , He informed me that he had Heard that i Bought used Eclectically equipment from a friend, and He had some He wanted to sell, I ask him what it was, and He said a 1200 Hundred amp electrical service Panel which he had ordered for a Job and the owner had went bankrupt, and He has it sitting at the site it was brand New and never been installed, It was even better then the one I had bid on because it was an Outdoor service instead of an indoor one that i had bid. So I ask him what He wanted for it and he said 2700.00 Dollars. Now the odds of that ever happening accidentally would be One in a BILLION . That service panel Had be sitting there months, before My situation happened. I earnestly believe GOD did that to prove my integrity. if i would keep my the word of my bid or not. And i would have even if it cost me another 2,000.00 dollars more. Then GOD gave me the blessing. So I do believe GOD sets up situations in our lives to try us and test our resolves It gives us courage to continue to do those things that are right also, and He rewards us for doing what is right.
Some would say, see that was to test your “FREE” WILL, but no it was not, GOD already knew what i Would DO, It was to encourage me to continue to do what was right in GOD'S EYES, and Not the way of the World.
I maintain there is (NO) Such Thing as a “FREE” WILL, but (ONLY) INFLUENCED WILLS that are allowed Liberty or Freedom to chose it's (INFLUENCED DESIRES), by GOD. But in the end ONLY ONE WILL will be DONE and THAT IS GOD”S WILL> IMO
peace and love to you all…………………..gene
Hi Gene,10,000-2,700= $7,200
How much of the ($7,200) savings did you pass on to the Church?Ed J
ED J …..A better question would be why did you bring up this subject. What does that have to do with anything. That has nothing to do with the point i was making, Rather i gave it all or Kept it all, it was all in my power to do as i so Chose.Trying to create negative images is a sin ED J. What if i said non , because the church was a synagogue of Satan, or if i said i gave it all to them, Whats your Point?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 13 2010,05:18) God works obedience through working His Spirit into the carnal mind. God draws people to the understanding of Christ, which is the reflection of what God can do in EVERY MAN. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ is believing that as God anointed a man causing perfection in him, He can do the same for us. God CAN and it is His WILL to give this grace to ALL!
Jesus CHOSE to deny the desires of the flesh because the Spirit of God was in him. When God's Spirit is working in man it awakens man to see just how foolish man is, it reveals how much of an ignorant idiot he is. God's Spirit reveals truth that is so powerful it exposes the foolish things of the world.
Others seem to confess however that the spirit in man is stronger, more intelligent, and more INFLUENTIAL then God's. Yep man sure does like to make himself a god, and put himself above God however he can. The idea that man's own carnal influences are more POWERFUL then that of God's Spirit is truly disgusting.
Jesus was known before time began to be a savior, how could that be, unless God knew what He could accomplish in His own creation?
The problem is most Christians seem to believe that the calling of every man is before they die, through a preacher and a bible. Churches invest their lives on SAVING SOULS, as if it were their God given calling. The truth be, that NOW is the calling of kings and priests that will serve with Christ. Are they being called to be leaders and priests to themselves? NO, of course not. The gospel of Christ and it's truth God chose to use for the calling of leaders, but after Christ returns the Sons of God will be revealed, and they along with Christ will be the work of God that calls every man.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Revelations 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
People need to get over the idea that now is the time for all to be saved because it makes YHWH our Heavenly Father look like a complete and pathetic FAILURE. All will be made part of the body of Christ, because the body of Christ reflects what God can accomplish in man, NOT what man can accomplish through his so called “free will”. Those who have been called should not boast, they just happened to receive grace FIRST, and those YET to be called had to be used as a tool to teach truth, it could have easily been the other way around.
Romans 11:27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?” 35 “Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?” 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Wonderful post it is Sis Jodi. I agree with your views on Free Will.gene
we are back to square one; The is not a FREE WILL but a predetermined WILL. Your choice was already predetermined before you ever had the offer by past associations. “FOR ALL THAT IS IN THE WORLD , THE LUST OF THE FLESH , THE LUST OF THE EYES, THE PRIDE OF LIFE ARE FROM THE WORLD”. Our Wills are driven by these things and are Hardly “FREE”.
you say ,if you offer me tree pie pieces i have tree choices ,i tell you i have four choices not tree
either i pick one of the tree offers or abstain of any.this will be my free choice,
the boundaries of creation are predetermined by God,no question about that,we cannot flight ,i mean without using other means ,birds are made to fly not men,
that is what i mean by boundaries,
so our choices are within that boundary,we are not free in our will to go swim 1000feet down the ocean
with no protection ,we will die,so our choices are related to whom we are in our nature,
so it is with all of today products you can not buy what is not for sale or available.
or what you do not know that exist,just the way you could not benefit from Christ sacrifice before he made it.
but the choices(and act on them) we make all day long are of our own freewill it is us that let this or that or none influencing us.and it is those choices that shows the inner person better ,the same way it is not wen we keep silent that people will know us but it is our conversation and the subjects we use that will define us to others.(by the abounded of the heart the mouth speaks)
there is no pride,no arrogance,that's the way it is,God has only predetermined our boundaries ,but this is for all creation,men ,animal,fish,water ,vegetation,planets,ect. it say so in Genesis.
it is you extremism views were the problem lays.
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,04:27) To All………the question is not, do we have WILLS, we definitely DO. The question (IS) are they (FREE) or not. I maintain they are (NOT) Free at ALL, But (INFLUENCED) Wills. Because there EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A “FREE” WILL. So in order to understand this we must understand what the word “FREE” truly means. Free means to exist in a state without (ANY) Influences , No such state exists with regards to a Will. Not man nor GOD, all Will contain influences and acts on the (GREATEST) of those influences. The very word, WILL itself shows us that, it is being influenced or it simply would Not be a WILL. Wills involve a determined desire that produces an outcome. They are Far from FREE. Many are getting LIBERTY or FREEDOM to (EXERCISE) THOSE (INFLUENCED WILLS), with the word “FREE WILL”. Scripture does not show that any so-called “FREE” Will exists. But shows WILLS exist in a state of being held Captive by our Thoughts. No one here has proven differently by any supportive scriptures yet produced.
Kerwin……..You are right in regards to GOD setting up situations in our lives, to prove us, I have had that happen to me before. Once when i was in business as an Electrical Contractor, I had a situation come up that at the time I had no idea GOD Hand was involved until later it became very obvious. I had bid a Job that required a Special large 1200 amp Electrical 3 phase 4 wire service it was quite expensive around 10,000.00 Dollars, it was for a church, and the Pastor said it would take about 30 day to raise the money needed , so I ask the supply house if they could hold the price for thirty days, He said thy would, so within the thirty days the pastor of the church called and said He had the money needed a told me to go ahead and order the service Panel. When i went to the Supply house and told them to go ahead and order it , They informed me it would be another Two thousand Dollars for it. I informed them that i had entered into a contract with the Church for it and could not go back and ask for more money from them. But they refused to lower the price to the original quote, so I became furious with them and said I would no longer do any business with them again, and went storming out and When i came back to the office , I told my secretary what had happened, and said i will have to Just take the loss and order it from another supplier which was about two thousand dollars more, I had no sooner told Her that when the Phone rang and another electrical contractor who I never knew wanted to talk with Me , He informed me that he had Heard that i Bought used Eclectically equipment from a friend, and He had some He wanted to sell, I ask him what it was, and He said a 1200 Hundred amp electrical service Panel which he had ordered for a Job and the owner had went bankrupt, and He has it sitting at the site it was brand New and never been installed, It was even better then the one I had bid on because it was an Outdoor service instead of an indoor one that i had bid. So I ask him what He wanted for it and he said 2700.00 Dollars. Now the odds of that ever happening accidentally would be One in a BILLION . That service panel Had be sitting there months, before My situation happened. I earnestly believe GOD did that to prove my integrity. if i would keep my the word of my bid or not. And i would have even if it cost me another 2,000.00 dollars more. Then GOD gave me the blessing. So I do believe GOD sets up situations in our lives to try us and test our resolves It gives us courage to continue to do those things that are right also, and He rewards us for doing what is right.
Some would say, see that was to test your “FREE” WILL, but no it was not, GOD already knew what i Would DO, It was to encourage me to continue to do what was right in GOD'S EYES, and Not the way of the World.
I maintain there is (NO) Such Thing as a “FREE” WILL, but (ONLY) INFLUENCED WILLS that are allowed Liberty or Freedom to chose it's (INFLUENCED DESIRES), by GOD. But in the end ONLY ONE WILL will be DONE and THAT IS GOD”S WILL> IMO
peace and love to you all…………………..gene
Wonderful example brother Gene.
I know you are the one alone in this battle of polemics on Myth of Free Will. I also agree with you.Peace and love to you
Adamjodi
your comment;People need to get over the idea that now is the time for all to be saved because it makes YHWH our Heavenly Father look like a complete and pathetic FAILURE. All will be made part of the body of Christ, because the body of Christ reflects what God can accomplish in man, NOT what man can accomplish through his so called “free will”. Those who have been called should not boast, they just happened to receive grace FIRST, and those YET to be called had to be used as a tool to teach truth, it could have easily been the other way around.
were you force to set up this respond of yours
what forces did make you do it ??
are your views the reflection of your influences??
influenced by what or whom?it is Gods call to all men ,but it is to men to willingly accepted the offer.(blessed are the ones who believe )
Terraricca……….If you do not chose one , that is because that which is influencing you to make that decision is the greatest influence working in you, still Nothing FREE What soever about it. You are captivated by your WILL no matter what your think. That WILL is far from (FREE) . That is why it says He came and led a host of captives captive. He set us free from one captivity and led us into another Captivity. Our Minds are transformed to think the way GOD thinks by His SPIRIT being Put in US. Free Wills have nothing to do with it Right and Wrong is the issue. God's way is right Mans Way is wrong God's Will is right Man Will is Wrong. But all are (INFLUENCED) rather GOD'S or Man and non is FREE. IMO
Goll
the fact that Adam accepted to eat the fruit of the three wen Eve presented to him, that it made it rightfully to do so
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