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WJ………Who says that we are not held responsible for our actions, Your not getting it, If our wills drive us to commit a crime or sin of any kind that is US that did It, But a so-called “FREE WILL” has nothing to do with it, it was a (CAPTIVATED WILL) that committed that sin our Wills are held captive by what Most influences us. That is why it is said He came to set the (CAPTIVES FREE), free of What a captivated WILL. What do you think Paul meant when He said “I find no good thing in my flesh, because to (WILL) is (PRESENT) with me. What do you think he meant by that WJ. Think about it.
peace and love………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 11 2010,02:57) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 10 2010,14:01) [ Your 'ideas' remind me of a question children sometimes ask.
What does “God” want me to be when I grow up?
How would you answer that question for the child?
Looking forward to your answer!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J…….I believe GOD has purpose for all his creation to become His Sons and Daughters.
For whom He (God) foreknew he also predestined to become conformed into the image of his son.
FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKS (IN) US (BOTH) TO WILL AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.Don't know if this answers your question or not , if not then try to be more point specific, brother.
Peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Hi Gene,I see you orchestrated the answer to remain constant with your 'no' “Free Will” theory.
Do you really think “a Child” would consider the answer you gave me an answer?
How would you answer a child?ED J……… First of all there is not “FREE WILL” theory Scripture say nothing about a “FREE” Will,the theory is of those who think there is a So-called “FREE WILL”. I would tell a Child He is a Child of GOD and GOD Has a plan and purpose of HIM. Does that answer you question? Don't know what you are driving at perhaps you could be more specific would help. What does any of this have to do with a so-called “FREE WILL” that actually does not exist. IMO
peace and love…………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 11 2010,04:48) gene explain counsel here ;so i can see what you say ;
terraricca……..Counseled Will is a Will that has recieved influenced by a Counsel , GOD uses His seven Spirit (INTELLECTS) to draw Counsel from and from there He directs HIS WILL. Don't you see it, His will was not a FREE WILL, but a counseled ONE. WE also do what we do by thoughts that influences us also.It is simple to understand just think about it.
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 11 2010,12:32) ED J……… First of all there is not “FREE WILL” theory Scripture say nothing about a “FREE” Will,the theory is of those who think there is a So-called “FREE WILL”. I would tell a Child He is a Child of GOD and GOD Has a plan and purpose of HIM. Does that answer you question? Don't know what you are driving at perhaps you could be more specific would help. What does any of this have to do with a so-called “FREE WILL” that actually does not exist. IMO peace and love…………..gene
Hi Gene,I'm driving towards finding “answers”. Here is the next question you present…
The child's next question would be…
What is God's plan and purpose for my life?Please play along…
Ed JED J………Ok….> I would say you will find out as you experience life My Child, As we all will, only GOD knows the end from the beginning We are not given that ability. We are all HIS workmanship created for his purposes my son.
peace and love……………gene
gene
i need two aspirins i feel my head spinning,in your explanation,”CAPTIVES OF DEAD” THAT IS WHAT HE MEANS” and dead is the cause of sin,
BUT IT NEVER STOP MEN TO DO WHAT HE WANTS,KILLING,MURDRING,LYING,ECT,
LOOK WHAT IS SAID ABOUT JOHN THE BAPTIST”JESUS SAYS THEY DID TO HIM WHAT THEY WANTED” WAS THIS GODS WILL OR THIER WILL?THIER CHOICE,THIER OWN INFLUENCE OF THIER SINFUL NATURE?God AS NOTHING TO DO WITH EVIL IT IS MEN FREE CHOICE ,AND HE WILL BE IS RESPONSIBILITY.Quote (Gene @ Feb. 11 2010,15:54) ED J………Ok….> I would say you will find out as you experience life My Child, As we all will, only GOD knows the end from the beginning We are not given that ability. We are all HIS workmanship created for his purposes my son. peace and love……………gene
Hi Gene,What if the child asks…
Does God want me to be a Preacher?
Does God want me to be a Teacher?
Does God want me to have a big family?How can I know for certain what God wants for my life?
These are more questions for you to answer.God bless
Ed JQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 11 2010,04:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2010,03:39) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,11:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2010,03:14) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 10 2010,11:04) Terraricca………..Self salvation by your so-called “FREE WILL” Choices is a myth it does not exist and never did. No scripture supports you hypotheses. Most believe that but as you say that is the wide GATE most choose to believe, but scripture disagree with that false teaching. There exist no such thing a (FREE) Will only (INFLUENCED) WILLS EXISTS. If that influence is of GOD then that is what you will do, because “GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU THE HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD”, THINK ABOUT IT.
GeneThen Jesus words is a lie according to your belief!
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, “If ye continue in my word“, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and 'the truth shall make you free“….”If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be **free indeed**. John 8:31, 32, 36
According to you we are never really free!
Blessings WJ
Keith,I am with Gene on this subject. There is no such thing as free will. The will is “free” only as it is led by the Spirit. So Gene's hypothesis that it is “influenced will” is correct.
But it is truly freedom.
thinker
JackIf my will is not free, then I am not free indeed!
You are making a play on words.
When temptation comes, I have the ability to freely choose without succumbing to the influence of bad or evil!
Adam and Eve were perfect without any influence (Except that of Good) when the Tempter came!
Adam freely chose to sin by walking into the Temptation with his eyes wide open even though he could have chosen the Tree of Life!
Blessings WJ
Keith,You are free ONLY in Christ. This is the ONLY true liberty the Bible knows about.
Without the Spirit leading you you can do nothing.
No play on words bro. Just the truth.
Jack
Amen to that post brother TheThinker. I agree with you and brother Gene on free will. Human wills are always influenced right from the first man. They are not so free as many think here. Yes we are led by the Spirit of God to fulfill God's will in our lives. I agree with our brother WJ stating that we certainly have liberty to obey to God's influence on our wills but that doesn't make our will free from any influence. This is what our brother Gene repeatedly attempts to explain here in this forum.peace to you
AdamHi brother Ed J,
it is always told that we should seek God's will in our lives and He will reveal His will to His childern if they humbly seek from Him.peace to you
Adamgene/goll
just because i say we have a choice either going right or left and it is our free decision (will) to do that, you say and admit than men is destroying the planet (surface) and it is God s will???God influence us either in both directions or none.can have it both ways,do you??
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 10 2010,20:42) I wonder always which is wide gate whether Christianity or Judaism? Even in this forum 'Myth of Free Will' is the widely accepted by members of this forum. So think over which is the wide gate.
I do not know how you definite free will. I do know when I use the term free will that it is not the same definition Gene chooses to use. I assure you God does not make our decisions though he does put us to the test.You seem to fail to realize there are three major teachings on the matter of determinism vs. free will. Choosenone follow the hard determinism line and others follow libertarianism but I follow the third way which believes that we have free will but God created us and set in place those things and events that would test us knowing full well in advance what we would choose.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 11 2010,12:08) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 11 2010,15:54) ED J………Ok….> I would say you will find out as you experience life My Child, As we all will, only GOD knows the end from the beginning We are not given that ability. We are all HIS workmanship created for his purposes my son. peace and love……………gene
Hi Gene,What if the child asks…
Does God want me to be a Preacher?
Does God want me to be a Teacher?
Does God want me to have a big family?How can I know for certain what God wants for my life?
These are more questions for you to answer.God bless
Ed J
God wants only one thing from you and that is for you to be righteous as he is righteous. If you do that and do what seems best to you then the rest will fall into place as God will open and shut doors for you.In other words:
God created a mind within you and gave you advisers in your life to resolve such dilemmas. After weighing the factors involved and deciding what path seems best to you take that path. God may then choose to place obstacles in your path to test your heart or he may choose to divert you to another path but whatever happens always keep your eye on the prize of being righteous as he is righteous.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 11 2010,21:44) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 10 2010,20:42) I wonder always which is wide gate whether Christianity or Judaism? Even in this forum 'Myth of Free Will' is the widely accepted by members of this forum. So think over which is the wide gate.
I do not know how you definite free will. I do know when I use the term free will that it is not the same definition Gene chooses to use. I assure you God does not make our decisions though he does put us to the test.You seem to fail to realize there are three major teachings on the matter of determinism vs. free will. Choosenone follow the hard determinism line and others follow libertarianism but I follow the third way which believes that we have free will but God created us and set in place those things and events that would test us knowing full well in advance what we would choose.
I would also agree with you brother Kerwin.kerwin
you right in what you are saying if you chose to follow God pad he will help you ,
but as for temptation ??Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.God does not test that way ,what happen is that God remove his protection and let you go on your own and see what you do,look at JOB,but always like you say focus on the price .
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 11 2010,17:09) kerwin you right in what you are saying if you chose to follow God pad he will help you ,
but as for temptation ??Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.God does not test that way ,what happen is that God remove his protection and let you go on your own and see what you do,look at JOB,but always like you say focus on the price .
I believe you are misunderstanding James. God does test the heart and he tells you he does but his motives are not the motives of Satan who does the tempting. God tests you with the hope you will succeed while Satan wants you to fail.An example of what I mean is in Deuteronomy 13:3
Deuteronomy 13:3(NIV) reads:
Quote you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Another example is when God tested used Satan to test Job.
So James is correct that God does not test us with evil but rather tests our heart by allowing Satan to test us with evil.
Elsewhere we are taught God will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist.
Kerwin ……..You present a GOD of Chance, not a GOD of Definite Purpose, So your say God simply throws out on the earth and it's up to us to figure it out and choose by our So-called FREE WILL, what to do or if we will do What He say , He simply sits back and watches which way we shall go and the way we (Chose) determines our destiny. Pure garbage , GOD did not leave it up to US to figure our our Salvation By our (OWN) non Existent “FREE WILL”. there are hundreds of scriptures that disagree with that perception. God Took and Active Role in Our Salvation Process, despite our Lack of Proper so-call “FREE WILL” Choices.
peace and Love………..gene
hi kerwin
i do not understand were i misunderstand James
Dt 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
Dt 13:2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,”
Dt 13:3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.this is about not fallowing false prophetes.
hi gene
Dt 5:28 The LORD heard you when you spoke to me and the LORD said to me, “I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good.
Dt 5:29 Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!Dt 6:5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength
Dt 6:12 be careful that you do not forget the LORD, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Dt 6:13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.
Dt 6:14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you;
Dt 7:11 Therefore, take care to follow the commands, decrees and laws I give you today.
Dt 7:12 If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers.God, ask us,God command us,God warrant us,why is that ? because we can chose to go the other way of our will.because we are free to do just that.i don't say it is a good choice but it is one.
WorshippingJesus said to Gene:
Quote Why did Jesus waste words when he said “Not my will but thine be done” since Gods will would be done anyway?
Keith,The “Lord's prayer” can be divided into doxology and petition. All from “our Father which art in heaven” to “thy will be done” is doxology. It is an acknowledgment.
All from “give us this day our daily bread” to “deliver us from evil” is petition. These are the things that we ask for.
In other words, we don't ask for God's will to be done. We simply acknowledge that the Father's will is done.
I am a little surprised that a man of your learning must be taught that the first part of the “Lord's prayer” is doxological.
thinker
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