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Hi CO,
Of course all are not saved.Ephesians is written to the SAINTS and the FAITHFUL IN CHRIST JESUS [eph1]so it cannot be applied to ALL MEN.
Join with US
Nick………..According to “FREE WILL” thinking it can be applied to all Men, So mow you are changing you concept of “FREE WILLS” But scripture says we are Caused BY GOD to Chose Jesus and given GOD'S SPIRIT to Understand the things of GOD, Where does scripture say that we achieve these things by our (OWN) So-called “FREE WILL”. AS i have posted here a hundred time it is BY THE (GRACE) OF GOD ALONE ANYONE IS SAVED AND THAT GRACE IS NOT DEPENDENT ON US BUT IT IS A GIFT OF GOD. It depends on GOD purpose for our individual Lives, our Wills do not throught the plan and WILL of GOD in our lives or anyone else either. GOD calles and save whomsoever He wishes , lets not forget He is the Potter and we are the CLAY. So the SElf WILLED CLay does not change the will of the POTTER, Because He can make of any lump whatever He choses. Despite there self captivated WILLS. If GOd could do that for someone like Paul, He is quite able to save anyone He choses with or without there permission.
G,
And the relationship between the Potter and the clay is well shown in Rom 9-11
Some is for the fire.Quote (Gene @ Feb. 08 2010,14:31) EDJ…..You are talking about an (influenced WILL) there does not exist any WILL “FREE” of Influences, NOT GOD'S nor Mans. Think about it, a WILL is ONLY a WILL if it (IS) (INFLUENCED), a will is the expression of what we want, or there simply would not be (ANY) WILL in EXISTENCE. While GOD gives us Liberty to a Point to exercise our (influenced) WILLS on earth, HIS is the (ONLY) WILL that will ultimately Be DONE. Jesus was not doing His Will but the FATHERS Will, that is why he could say whoever seen him was seeing the FATHER because His was only doing the FATHERS WILL, not HIS. OUR Wills separate Us from GOD and must be put to death, This is done by the (GRACE)(Gods influencing on the heart) by GOD, when this happens you are loosing (YOUR) Life by Doing GOD'S WILL , not yours. Scripture does not deal with any so-called “FREE WILLS” because no WILL exists as “FREE”. peace and love………………..gene
Hi Gene,Are you calling the 'ego' 'will'?
Ed J
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2010,09:39) G,
And the relationship between the Potter and the clay is well shown in Rom 9-11
Some is for the fire.
Hi brother Nick,
I hope you will agree with the views of our brothers Gene and Chosenone on God having sovereignty over His creation.Peace to you
Adamhi goll
you should look that your brothers do not beleive in the freewill of God,read there comments;
Posted: Feb. 06 2010,13:33——————————————————————————–
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 06 2010,03:21)
Hi brother Gene,
I agree with you that there is no free will in this whole creation. I have read many books on this subject. I noticed even Jews are fallen to this prey. Every thing in this universe is dependant on cause and effects as you often quote here. Even in the story of Garden of Eden there was no free will at all. It was only limited choices given to first man and woman. When Joshua gave challenge to Israelits it was also only two options whether to choose life or death. I agree that there is some liberty for human to choose but it is only according to the options given by God otherwise there is no will which is really free for him.I appreciate your strugle on this tricky subject.
Love and peace to you
AdamAdam……..Absolutely, all things are the result of CAUSE and EFFECT , and without CAUSE and EFFECT nothing would exist. GOD the FATHER is the prime mover Without him nothing would exist. Even the word WILL Show the existence of force. A (FREE) Will does not even exist Just a INfluenced one does. GOD'S WILL is not even a “FREE” Will BUT A COUNSELED WILL. “FOR GOD DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS OWN WILL. A Will can not exist as “FREE” if it did it would not even be a WILL, the word WILL shows force exists and influence is present, or it simply would not be a WILL.
The main source of the Idea of a (FREE WILL) is a desire of the carnal mind , and it's source is PRIDE. Satan used it on even to try to seperate her self from GOD'S influence by making Her self a so-called “FREE WILLED” Person and this has continued unto this very day it exist in all carnal minds and is just another, I want to be a GOD that is in Carnal minded Humans. IMO
CO
now you are the absolut dictionary ? I wen to the dictionary and it say that counsel means advise
if you so good fight it out with the dictionary producers.you also try to twist the scriptures not quoting the total meaning of it ;
Eph 1:9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
Eph 1:10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,read all and you should see your explanation does not fit to what it says,
and counsel means advice ,God does not take advice or counseling he give advice and supply counseling to the righteous ones.
you should stop counseling in the wrong direction.
gene
this you do not answer ,because you know there is such a thing as freewill but you just do not accepted because it is your base of your beleive and faith ,you worship the wrong God.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2010,04:23)
geneyou have not answered my questions on my quote,
you reffer to the wrong story,;please answer those questions
Christ was doing God will ,out of his freewill.
Satan was doing his selves will ,out of his freewill.both are and were in heaven,before the father.
two influences i only see one ,influence that is God ,were was the influence of Satan ??
terraricca………I offer Scripture, you offer a story of your assumptions, Show us where it says Jesus out of His own “FREE” WILL, was doing GOD'S WILL. that is an assumption on your part but not scripture show us that.
All are adversaries of GOD who do there (OWN) Will out of there falsely assumed “FREE” WILLS
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS,YOU WHAT I PICTURED IS THE TRUTH.
Terraricca………..I think you are the one that should be answering scriptures posted to You showing we Have (NO) so_called “FREE WILL” Our WILL are FAR From “FREE” , they are all influenced WILL, That is why scripture never say we (HAVE) a FREE WILL. WE do have WILLS but they are far far from Free Wills. That is What the adversary want people to think so they rely on themselves rather then putting there wills do death and obey GOD'S WILL as Jesus did. Non of what you have posted even deals with OUR WILLS we have in Us, But we have post many scriptures the shown completely opposite to what your are falsely teaching. There is (ONLY) ONE WILL that will be DONE and it does not depend on you our Me , BUT GOD the FATHER ALONE. PRIDE HATES THE THOUGHT OF ITSELF BEING PUT OUT OF THE PICTURE WHEN IT COMES TO SALVATION. The (I) GOD'S want to think they are the author of their salvation by their so called Free WILL Choices. PURE HOG WASH. 'FOR BY (GRACE) ARE WE SAVED AND THAT (NOT) OF YOURSELVES IT (salvation) if a Gift of GOD”, what part of that you can't understand. Read it slowly and maybe you can comprehend it, being you say you have GOD'S Spirit in you.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2010,18:03) CO
now you are the absolut dictionary ? I wen to the dictionary and it say that counsel means advise
if you so good fight it out with the dictionary producers.you also try to twist the scriptures not quoting the total meaning of it ;
Eph 1:9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
Eph 1:10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,read all and you should see your explanation does not fit to what it says,
and counsel means advice ,God does not take advice or counseling he give advice and supply counseling to the righteous ones.
you should stop counseling in the wrong direction.
terraricca,
Looking more deeply, the definitions of counsel and advice are not the same. If they were, then you wouldn't need both words if one or the other would do. Here is an example of there useage:
Advice is not counseling and counseling is not advice. There is an important difference between the counseling and the advice. In fact, it is a big problem to teach the counselors that while counseling they should avoid giving advice to the counselees (those who seek counseling).
http://www.lightinlife.com/counseling_and_advice.htm http://www.lightinlife.com/counseling_and_advice.htmYou can look this up for yourself in the websites posted.
Blessings.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 09 2010,11:40) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 08 2010,14:31) EDJ…..You are talking about an (influenced WILL) there does not exist any WILL “FREE” of Influences, NOT GOD'S nor Mans. Think about it, a WILL is ONLY a WILL if it (IS) (INFLUENCED), a will is the expression of what we want, or there simply would not be (ANY) WILL in EXISTENCE. While GOD gives us Liberty to a Point to exercise our (influenced) WILLS on earth, HIS is the (ONLY) WILL that will ultimately Be DONE. Jesus was not doing His Will but the FATHERS Will, that is why he could say whoever seen him was seeing the FATHER because His was only doing the FATHERS WILL, not HIS. OUR Wills separate Us from GOD and must be put to death, This is done by the (GRACE)(Gods influencing on the heart) by GOD, when this happens you are loosing (YOUR) Life by Doing GOD'S WILL , not yours. Scripture does not deal with any so-called “FREE WILLS” because no WILL exists as “FREE”. peace and love………………..gene
Hi Gene,Are you calling the 'ego' 'will'?
Ed J
ED J……….I haven't thought about that much, but I do believe Ego is definitely a function of the WILL. Because a Will is indeed generated from the self , so in that sense you could say Ego (self focus) is a product of the Will. The carnal mind is a self focused Will at work, that is why Paul said He found (NO) good thing in His Flesh, because to (WILL) WAS PRESENT. If we truly trust and have Faith in GOD and what he says we will be trying to putting our wills to DEATH as Jesus did His WILL. There is (ONLY) ONE Will that will be done as Jesus and that is GOD'S Will. ALL WILLS ARE (INFLUENCED ) WILLS, “FREE”, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, While we are given Liberty to express our wills that does not mean the Will itself is a “FREE WILL”. There is no such thing as a “FREE WILL” not ours or GOD'S WILL is a FREE WILL. Remember GOD uses (counsel) to make up his will. “FOR GOD DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS OWN WILL.” All these counsels (of the seven spirits) form HIS WILL. WE also use the reasons in us to make up our wills. None of these exhibit any so-called “FREE WILLS”. IMOQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2010,05:21) gene here is another scripture for you to see;My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
JN 7:17 “ If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.“IF ANYONE IS WILLING TO DO HIS WILL(GOD)
terraricca………do you see the word “FREE WILL” their or Just WILL , if you are smart enough to see only WILL written there then understand that that WILL is and INFLUENCED WILL (NOT) a “FREE WILL”. FOR HE (GOD WORKS IN US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE. These are the one who are WILLING to do HIS WILL. “FREE” WILL has (NOTHING) to do with IT.GRACE OF GOD (God's influencing on the heart) is the (CAUSE) of that kind of WILL , It has nothing to do with OUR OWN so-called “FREE WILLS”. FREE WILLS DO NOT EXIST.
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 10 2010,13:26) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 09 2010,11:40) Quote (Gene @ Feb. 08 2010,14:31) EDJ…..You are talking about an (influenced WILL) there does not exist any WILL “FREE” of Influences, NOT GOD'S nor Mans. Think about it, a WILL is ONLY a WILL if it (IS) (INFLUENCED), a will is the expression of what we want, or there simply would not be (ANY) WILL in EXISTENCE. While GOD gives us Liberty to a Point to exercise our (influenced) WILLS on earth, HIS is the (ONLY) WILL that will ultimately Be DONE. Jesus was not doing His Will but the FATHERS Will, that is why he could say whoever seen him was seeing the FATHER because His was only doing the FATHERS WILL, not HIS. OUR Wills separate Us from GOD and must be put to death, This is done by the (GRACE)(Gods influencing on the heart) by GOD, when this happens you are loosing (YOUR) Life by Doing GOD'S WILL , not yours. Scripture does not deal with any so-called “FREE WILLS” because no WILL exists as “FREE”. peace and love………………..gene
Hi Gene,Are you calling the 'ego' 'will'?
Ed J
ED J……….I haven't thought about that much, but I do believe Ego is definitely a function of the WILL. Because a Will is indeed generated from the self , so in that sense you could say Ego (self focus) is a product of the Will. The carnal mind is a self focused Will at work, that is why Paul said He found (NO) good thing in His Flesh, because to (WILL) WAS PRESENT. If we truly trust and have Faith in GOD and what he says we will be trying to putting our wills to DEATH as Jesus did His WILL. There is (ONLY) ONE Will that will be done as Jesus and that is GOD'S Will. ALL WILLS ARE (INFLUENCED ) WILLS, “FREE”, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, While we are given Liberty to express our wills that does not mean the Will itself is a “FREE WILL”. There is no such thing as a “FREE WILL” not ours or GOD'S WILL is a FREE WILL. Remember GOD uses (counsel) to make up his will. “FOR GOD DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNSEL) OF HIS OWN WILL.” All these counsels (of the seven spirits) form HIS WILL. WE also use the reasons in us to make up our wills. None of these exhibit any so-called “FREE WILLS”. IMO
Hi Gene,We can and should completely kill of the 'ego', but in doing so we still have “Free Will”.
Jesus decided where to go (Free Will) who to heal (Free Will) and so forth.
These decisions are “all” a product of Jesus “Free Will”.
Because we all have influences on our “wills”,
does in NO WAY make them any less “Free”!John 8:36: If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed.Your 'ideas' remind me of a question children sometimes ask.
What does “God” want me to be when I grow up?
How would you answer that question for the child?
Looking forward to your answer!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J……….Please produce Scripture where “FREE” WILLS are discussed, As far as i am concerned (there exists no such thing as a WILL the is “FREE” of any influences, in fact it could not be a WILL if it was not influenced by some thing, I have yet to see a single scripture that says that man is born with or Has as so-called “FREE” Will. in fact scripture shows man is far from a FREE WILLED Person, But a Person with a Captivated WILL.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members warring against th law of my Mind, and bringing me into (CAPTIVITY) to the law of sin which is in my (MIND).
While Jesus has come to set us FREE from that captivated will, and it goes on to say;
2 Co 10:5…> Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of GOD, and bringing into (CAPTIVITY) every thought to the Obedience of Christ.
Eph 4:8……..That is why God says,” When He went up into the highest place he led captives into captivity and gave gifts to people.
We are all held captivity by our Thought and that causes us to WILL what we want. But thanks to GOD He has exchanged our Captivity by another captivity of His Doing , BY His GRACE. And that gives us a New WILL , “for He (GOD) works in us Both to (WILL) and (DO) of (HIS) Good Pleasure. No Will is “FREE” not GOD'S nor OURS, they never were FREE. Because we have liberty to exercise those Wills does not mean they are “FREE” WILLS, Satan would love us to think they are “FREE”. But truth is they are not now and never were “FREE”. IMO
gene and others
this is the dictionary meaning of the word counsel;webster
Main Entry: 1coun·sel
Pronunciation: \ˈkau̇n(t)-səl\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English conseil, from Anglo-French cunseil, from Latin consilium, from consulere to consult
Date: 13th century
1 a : advice given especially as a result of consultation b : a policy or plan of action or behavior
2 : deliberation, consultation
3 a archaic : purpose b : guarded thoughts or intentions
4 a plural counsel (1) : a lawyer engaged in the trial or management of a case in court (2) : a lawyer appointed to advise and represent in legal matters an individual client or a corporate and especially a public body b : consultant 2it is clear you guys have your own bible and dictionary.
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 10 2010,17:05) ED J……….Please produce Scripture where “FREE” WILLS are discussed, As far as i am concerned (there exists no such thing as a WILL the is “FREE” of any influences, in fact it could not be a WILL if it was not influenced by some thing, I have yet to see a single scripture that says that man is born with or Has as so-called “FREE” Will. in fact scripture shows man is far from a FREE WILLED Person, But a Person with a Captivated WILL. Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members warring against th law of my Mind, and bringing me into (CAPTIVITY) to the law of sin which is in my (MIND).
While Jesus has come to set us FREE from that captivated will, and it goes on to say;
2 Co 10:5…> Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of GOD, and bringing into (CAPTIVITY) every thought to the Obedience of Christ.
Eph 4:8……..That is why God says,” When He went up into the highest place he led captives into captivity and gave gifts to people.
We are all held captivity by our Thought and that causes us to WILL what we want. But thanks to GOD He has exchanged our Captivity by another captivity of His Doing , BY His GRACE. And that gives us a New WILL , “for He (GOD) works in us Both to (WILL) and (DO) of (HIS) Good Pleasure. No Will is “FREE” not GOD'S nor OURS, they never were FREE. Because we have liberty to exercise those Wills does not mean they are “FREE” WILLS, Satan would love us to think they are “FREE”. But truth is they are not now and never were “FREE”. IMO
Hi Gene,Just because our wills have influence on them does NOT negate “Free Will”!
I agree our wills do have influence on them; but you're defining “Free Will” by your own definition!I would very much like for you to answer this question (Which you have conveniently dodged).
'Your idea' reminds me of a question children sometimes ask…
What does “God” want me to be when I grow up?
How would you answer that question?
Looking forward to your answer!Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orghi gene and the others
this is my final answer to you;Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.if you do not understand it ,it is because you do not have the spirit of Christ .
gene and the others;
understand the following;Mt 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Mt 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.if this does not help you to understand the way of Christ nothing will.
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