Free Will?

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2010,22:51)

all

it is also understood that any of us animal,and humans even angels can not act out side of the perimeter in which we have been created,
this is not limits to our free will but our free will boundaries,just like you would say, a fish is limited to the water and for those reasons he has no free will because if he would have free will he should be able to go any were he want to in air on the ground this is stupid reasoning.only fools would believe that.

terraricca

Yes we have boundaries, but has that ever stopped a human? we can choose and make our self believe we can fly and jump of the empire state building. Only humans are dumb enough to cross their boundaries, we see it almost every night on TV; they try to go faster, jump higher, dive deeper, you name it, and a human will try it; animals are not so dumb, they Know their boundaries.

Georg

February 4, 2010 at 8:20 pm#175752

Participant

HI GEORG
thanks well thought.

February 4, 2010 at 9:08 pm#175758

Participant

To all

It has been mentioned that God leads us to repentance, how does God lead someone to repentance?
The Bible says,

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

And Paul agrees,

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But Paul also ask this question,

Rom 10:14 ¶ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Jesus said he died for all, so who are WE to say NO HE DID NOT? Who are we to not only judge, but to condemn those who have never heard the name Jesus?
No other nation of ancient time, knew the true God but the nation Israel, they had the Law, and yet Paul says,

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

That brings us back to the question of Rom. 10:14; how indeed, shall all have faith in him, of whom they have not even heard?
I know one thing, I was not born with faith in Jesus Christ. I was not even born with a knowledge of Jesus Christ. I did not even read the bible before age 45. But then something caught my eye and ear on TV. A “preacher” said something that made me listen up, and I paid attention; that was the beginning of my faith, growing in Jesus Christ. How about you, were you born with a silver Bible in your mouth?

Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jesus died once, and he died for all; if all does not mean all, how do you know you are included?

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision (unbelievers) of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

All of us have belonged to the group of unbelievers at one time, until WE HEARD a preacher preaching the Word of God, and we became alive in Christ. Will you deny the same opportunity to any one else?
I know Jesus will not, he says so in his word,

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

I believe all means all.

Georg

February 5, 2010 at 2:09 am#175795

Participant

Georg………..AMEN Brother, you have rightly said it.

peace and love to you and Irene…………………gene

February 5, 2010 at 4:25 am#175851

Participant

gene

what georg shows is that all receive witness to Christ and can benefit of is sacrifice and obtain ever lasting live
but he did not mention the scriptures to what happen to those who do not accept the message

unless georg says that he believe all of the human race are or will be saved and forgot to say it

unless i read it wrong

February 5, 2010 at 4:42 am#175854

Participant

terraricca……….Figure it out for yourself, As in ADAM (ALL) die, even so as in Christ Shall (ALL) be MADE ALIVE. I also believe (ALL) means (ALL) like Georg does. Why try to twist direct quoted scripture to meet your perceptions of them. There are many many scriptures that back those scriptures up.

February 5, 2010 at 4:50 am#175855

Participant

gene

you still don't get it right,
Adam sins we ALL die because of his sin,Christ comes to teach us that God has now open the way to salvation to whoever will believe in him and the one who he as send Jesus Christ ,to make it valid Christ give up his live for the live lost by Adam AND BY DOING ANNULATE THE SINS THAT PREVENTED US TO COME CLOSE TO GOD ,SO NOW ALL MAN CAN BENEFIT FROM HIS SACRIFICE,ALL WHOEVER ACCEPTED.

February 5, 2010 at 5:41 am#175861

Participant

terraricca

I did not say, nor did I mean, all will be saved; I only said, all will be resurrected, as Paul tells us.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Being resurrected is only the first step to being saved because this is what Peter said.

Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

That will happen during the millennium.

Georg

February 5, 2010 at 5:48 am#175863

Participant

georg

is it not after the milinium??

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

February 5, 2010 at 8:12 am#175916

Participant

terraricca

I understand the confusion of Rev. 20:5, but think, who would the kings and priests be ruling over for a thousand years?
And how would all the dead being resurrected, get their name into the book of life? remember, by faith are we saved, not by works.
Also, after the millennium Satan will be loosed; ever wonder for what reason?
So, if the millennium is not for the teaching of the resurrected, then what is it for?

Georg

February 5, 2010 at 9:09 am#175927

Participant

georg
i would be inclined to say you right ,but it says ;THIS HIS THE FIRST RESURECTION,AND THEY BE WITH CHRIST FOR 1000YEARS.
then it says;Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished,

then it says;Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

then it says;Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years

then it says;Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

there is a little confusion as what comes before or after the 1000 years,with the dead of the second resurrection group.
it says they only come to live after the millenium.

it says that the millenium is for the first resurrection, and those are as it says;And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

so it is possible that we may have children in the 1000 years

February 5, 2010 at 3:41 pm#175943

Participant

terraricca

Those that come up in the first resurrection are the saints, they will have received a spirit body, and they will not be subject to the second death, verse 6; they are the once that will reign with Christ as kings and priests for the thousand years.
The reason all the rest are considered dead is; even if you live to the end of the thousand years you cannot say, you got it made because, that is when Satan will loosed from his prison, verse 7. And you know what it says in verse 8 and 9. In other words, as long as there is a chance for you to sin, you are considered dead.
You know what Jesus told one of his disciples?

Mat 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Verse 4 is referring to the 144,000, they are the kings, Beheaded is to say, the gave their life for Jesus. They did not worship the beast, the Roman emperor, or his image, the Antichrist. Did not receive his mark, did not except or believe his doctrine.
The white throne stands for righteousness, and he that sits on it is Jesus Christ, verse 11. Earth and heavens are metaphors, earth means everything man has made or build, his governments, his societies, his very way of life will be done away with; heavens means religious places of authority, churches, all man made religions will be done away with.
To get it in the right sequence you have read verse 13 first; this what I am talking about, all the dead will be resurrected during the millennium. Now you know that works don't save you, but after your resurrection, and as you are being taught God's way, records are kept of your progress; those are the books verse 12, then at the end of your allotted time the books are opened to see if you made enough progress, if you did your name will be in the book of life. That is what is meant by, the dead are judged according to what they had done.
Now I don't want to confuse you, but the first resurrection has already taken place, the thousand years are for every body else.
Yes we will have children in the millennium, Isaiah says, even at a hundred years your just a child, Is. 65:20; and job says,

Job 33:25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

That IS what the good news is all about.

Georg

February 5, 2010 at 4:11 pm#175950

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2010,15:50)

gene

Terraricca………You don't get it, we do not die because of Adams sins, Adam sin is why he Died. Sin entered into the World (through) Adam, Scripture said all have sinned and can short of the glory of God. WE have the nature of Adam and sin ourselves, But Jesus brought to us a new Nature of the Spirit given from GOD to US. This new nature from GOD transforms us in son of GOD.

You seem to think I am saying (ALL) (NOW) Have that nature, which i never said , in fact (ALL) are not even Chosen Now to recieve that Nature. Jesus plainly said (NO ONE) (CAN) COME UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER (DRAW) him. The “to whom ever will”, you say, are those GOD is drawing to Jesus by His GRACE (God's influencing on the heart): NOT by their so-called “FREE” WILLS , But God influenced WILLS>

WE are told that whosoever call on the name of the LORD shall be saved. GOD said He is not WILLING that (ANY) Parish, and He said He does (ALL) things after the counsel of HIS (OWN) WILL>

You seem to think GOD is Weak and can only save us with our permission, but scripture disagree with you, GOD said (HE) was the potter and we the clay , and he can make of us what ever pleases Him. He does not need or seek our Permission by our so-called “FREE WILL” as you suppose. He (CREATES) US RIGHTEOUS by the POWER of (HIS) Might. Even Jesus told the apostle they DID NOT CHOOSE HIM, BUT HE CHOSE THEM. SO in YOU so-called FREE WILL Salvation why did not the apostles choose Him instead of Him choosing them. Again it says (I) GOD will take out of you the stony Heart and give you a heart of flesh (soft heart) and put my Laws in your inward Parts, and then I will be a GOD to you and you shall be MY people. And again the gentiles who have (NOT) the Law , but do the things contained in them , show the law of GOD written on their Heart (BY) the Hand of GOD, tell me do you see where this is done by OUR SO-CALLED “FREE WILLS” which does not even exist in the first place. Your focus is on the (SELF) not on GOD nor HIS POWER to SAVE WHOEVER HE WILL'S TO.

February 5, 2010 at 4:21 pm#175951

gollamudi

Participant

Hi brother Gene,
I agree with you that there is no free will in this whole creation. I have read many books on this subject. I noticed even Jews are fallen to this prey. Every thing in this universe is dependant on cause and effects as you often quote here. Even in the story of Garden of Eden there was no free will at all. It was only limited choices given to first man and woman. When Joshua gave challenge to Israelits it was also only two options whether to choose life or death. I agree that there is some liberty for human to choose but it is only according to the options given by God otherwise there is no will which is really free for him.

I appreciate your strugle on this tricky subject.
Love and peace to you
Adam

February 5, 2010 at 4:21 pm#175953

Participant

gene

you do not know the scriptures nor God,

first the law says live for live ,this is why Christ came to pay the ransom for the perfect live Adam lost

but what do you care about Gos plan anyway you have establish your own doctrine,you have now make god your slave ,because you tell what he does and does not,and unless you approve God as no rights.

you have made yourself above God and Christ. judgement his near.

February 5, 2010 at 8:00 pm#175987

Participant

goll

you do not even understand what you writing down,With Joshua who made the Jewish people chose between serving God or not ,two choices means three ways posible but only one is good,

tell me wish one is the one God forces you into;1) serve God,2)not serving God ,3) do nothing

nothing is forced on anyone but your on choice so you free to choise so it is your will to chose,or is it not??

February 5, 2010 at 8:15 pm#175988

Participant

gene

God does not drawn people ,it is the people desire to know God willfully and learn about God plan and
accept that plan for themselves ,and so change there live stop sinning have faith produce the fruits of there faith by deeds ;

just think that all is only possible because God offers his plan out of love to all men,man has only to chose to accepted. it is true there is only two choice this 50% good versus 50% wrong(3choice is not even an option.)

every day in you live you have to make those choices and sometimes you take it with less than 50% chances of success,live is only a two way traffic lane.

February 6, 2010 at 2:12 am#176039

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2010,03:21)

you tell what he does and does not,and unless you approve God as
no rights.

Terraricca…….YOU So-called “FREE WILL” Salvation believers are those who think BY there OWN “FREE WILL” Choices can tell GOD if He can or can not save them. You have your wires crossed. You continual accusations of people only show your true colors, Much like your father who you serve . IMO

February 6, 2010 at 2:17 am#176042

Participant

Terraricca………..Why is it you NEVER commit on MANY POSTED SCRIPTURES We have POSTED, YOU JUST ONLY IMPLY WE ARE TAKING THEM OUT OF CONTEXT , BUT YOU FALl TO EVEN COMMIT ON THEN , Why is that, they are in your Bible or have you torn them out of your bible. I don't believe the truth is what you really seeking doing Here. IMO

February 6, 2010 at 2:33 am#176046