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Kerwin………..Isa 45:7….> I Form the light and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do (ALL) these things . (EVERYTHING, ALL THESE THINGS)
That should answer all these Questions . Show me where anyone else Causes all things to work except GOD Himself. There is no hungering or thrusting for righteousness without the LORD doing it. Don't let (PRIDE) become a Stumbling Block brother in your quest for the truth.
The Good seed is the sowing of GOD'S word in HIS GROUND, The bad seed is a sowing of false teachings by those decieved who think they are doing GOD Will , but all is allowed by GOD. IN the end all will be disclosed and the Evil seed will be Bound up and go into intense Judgments, or symbolic knowing as the lake of fire.
I have been thinking lately about where people go so wrong and it seem to be in their (BASIC) understandings of simple things. Like who and What is GOD, or the LORD or SPIRIT or Jesus, Just not understanding these simple things cause a mountain of confusions. As Jesus said (Many) would come in his name and deceive many. Just a matter of the blind leading the blind that the problem brother. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………..gene
Gene wrote:
Quote Isa 45:7….> I Form the light and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do (ALL) these things . (EVERYTHING, ALL THESE THINGS)
I think you misunderstand Isaiah 45:7 since the way the New International Version translates that scripture sounds like it is a more accurate choice of words at least for these times. It may be “evil” and “disaster” are synonyms in this case since a disaster is called evil by some.
Isaiah 45:7(NIV) reads:
Quote I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Gene wrote:
Quote The Good seed is the sowing of GOD'S word in HIS GROUND, The bad seed is a sowing of false teachings by those deceived who think they are doing GOD Will , but all is allowed by GOD. IN the end all will be disclosed and the Evil seed will be Bound up and go into intense Judgments, or symbolic knowing as the lake of fire.
I have to disagree because that is not how Jesus explains the parable as you can see.
Matthew 13:36-43(NIV) reads:
Quote When he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Gene wrote:
Quote I have been thinking lately about where people go so wrong and it seem to be in their (BASIC) understandings of simple things.
We are discussing the simple things since we are discussing that God is just and that God is the creator and made some to be servants of his Son and some to be children of Satan. Some question if God is just to punish the children of Satan but as He states “I have mercy of who I have mercy and compassion on who I have compassion”. You are one of those that question God’s justice by the doctrine you have chosen to embrace. Still we can address that later as I am still trying to find where you disagree with me and what evidence you have to back up that disagreement.
Kerwin……..Rather then speaking about many subjects, lets discuss, if God really does all these things . My first response is that do you believe that (everything) that is created did come from GOD? or do you qualify what he did or didn't CREATE. Lets just stay here before we go on. Did GOD create the tree of GOOD and EVIL by HIMSELF, And the word for EVIL quoted in Hebrew, in Isa 45:7 is EVIL, Check out a concordance, Ever where else in the bible it is also written as evil,. WE can all chose different texts to support our opinions and beliefs. But I need to see where Scripture Say's that GOD did not create EVIL Himself. Then i will believe He is not the creator of all things that exist. AS he said He did. IMO
love and peace to you and yours……………………………..gene
Kerwin……….I was not addressing the SOWER of the GOOD SEED , I was addressing the SEED itself brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ April 05 2009,16:16) Kerwin……..Rather then speaking about many subjects, lets discuss, if God really does all these things . My first response is that do you believe that (everything) that is created did come from GOD? or do you qualify what he did or didn't CREATE. Lets just stay here before we go on. Did GOD create the tree of GOOD and EVIL by HIMSELF, And the word for EVIL quoted in Hebrew, in Isa 45:7 is EVIL, Check out a concordance, Ever where else in the bible it is also written as evil,. WE can all chose different texts to support our opinions and beliefs. But I need to see where Scripture Say's that GOD did not create EVIL Himself. Then i will believe He is not the creator of all things that exist. AS he said He did. IMO love and peace to you and yours……………………………..gene
G,
Do you mean theTREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.
That one is in Genesis but yours is not.
Gene wrote:
Quote I was not addressing the SOWER of the GOOD SEED , I was addressing the SEED itself brother.
Matthew 13:36-43(NIV) reads:
Quote …”The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man….
If this is all Jesus said then I could see your argument but it is not.
Matthew 13:36-43(NIV) reads:
Quote …The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom….
This makes it clear that the good seed = sons of God
Matthew 13:36-43(NIV) reads:
Quote …The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil….
This one makes it clear the weeds = sons of Satan
Matthew 13:36-43(NIV) reads:
Quote …They will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth….
This makes is clear what will happen to those that persist in doing evil.
God cannot be tempted by evil much less do it and because of that those who persist in doing evil must be punished and since they refuse to do what is right they must be destroyed. To do anything else would be for God to do evil because it would enable evil and God cannot do evil. I admit that may be a hard truth to accept in a culture that encourages us to do evil by failing to resist evil fully or not at all but God is not like us. Nick Hassan himself has trouble not enabling evil in his family and friends because he fears for their salvation. Such fear is noble but when a person allows it to cause them to do evil then the nobility of it is corrupted. Don’t you think Jesus loved his mother and brothers and yet he said:
Matthew 12:46-50(NIV) reads:
Quote While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Gene wrote:
Quote My first response is that do you believe that (everything) that is created did come from GOD?
I am not sure that you can say that either good or evil were created. God has always been good and rebellion against God has always been evil even when no one existed to rebel against God.
Gene wrote:
Quote Did GOD create the tree of GOOD and EVIL by HIMSELF,
God did create the tree of the knowledge of God and Evil. I am not sure if it was a literal tree since God also created the tree of life and Jesus is tree of life as far as I understand.
Gene wrote:
Quote And the word for EVIL quoted in Hebrew, in Isa 45:7 is EVIL, Check out a concordance
The Hebrew word you speak of is “rah” and has multiple definitions and is not always translated to evil even in the King James version of scripture. Here is what a Hebrew Lexicon states about the word.
Gene wrote:
Quote But I need to see where Scripture Say's that GOD did not create EVIL Himself.
Again I do not believe evil or good are created since they are an action and God does one and cannot do the other. God certainly gave as least some of the living beings He created the ability to make a choice between good and evil but I would not say that is creating evil.
Ecclesiastics 7:29(NIV) reads:
Quote This only have I found: God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes.”
Hi KW,
Jesus is the tree of life?Rev22
1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
I have faith in the God Who sees the heart and for Whom mercy triumphs over judgement.
Nick Hassan:
Quote Jesus is the tree of life?
It is through faith in him that one can inherit eternal life. Still as I said I am not sure as I have too little information to go on at this time. Thank you for the passage you supplied though you may want to consider that prophecy is symbolic at times.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote I have faith in the God Who sees the heart and for Whom mercy triumphs over judgment.
And so does Gene though he makes more exceptions, but it is clear if you reject what is good and embrace what is evil then God will destroy your body and soul by throwing you into hellfire as as his Son teaches us.
Luke 12:5(NIV)
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.[/quote]
Kerwin……….were moving to fast away from the one Point , I full well know that the (tree) of the Knowledge in the Garden is symbolic, it symbolizes (that which brings forth from it self) and GOD told us Not to (eat) (take to ourselves) to produce from Self the knowledge of good and Evil. It never was a question of good and evil existing because (LIFE) will always consist of them. The balance between good and evil gives us wisdom as well as it does GOD. “Look Man (has) become as we are to (KNOW) good and evil.” notice some important words, (TO KNOW) this means Knowledge gained through experiencing it). The word become (means to be like) GOD. Who obviously Knows good and evil and has experienced them. The balance of these two gives us wisdom, exactly what Eve and Adam came to see. You say GOD did not create EVIL only GOOD but explain How could you possible really KNOW Good without knowing Evil. One explains the other. And the word “rah” is pronounced, Evil, 442 times in scripture, and very few times as anything else. So to assert that GOD was not saying He created EVIL is a giant leap from Scripture. To me the LORD GOD created (ALL) things that Exist now or ever did exist. including GOOD and EVIL, And not only did He create then He uses them to bring about His purposes. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Kerwin ……i would like to discuss Hell fire with you, as i believe their is no literial (HELL FIRE), but later we can go into that, now we need to get clear what the LORD GOD did create, and what He did not create .
peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
Hi KW,
So you do not believe in a God of Love and Mercy but only of harsh legalism?
And yet you have some hope?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2009,23:09) Hi KW,
So you do not believe in a God of Love and Mercy but only of harsh legalism?
And yet you have some hope?
I do not believe in a God that enables evil and that is the false God you are preaching. Those preaching such a false God are spreading a doctrine that tells people's itching ears what they want to hear and true Christians are warned against it. I understand your desire that your family and friends be saved but it is clear Satan is using that desire to mislead you. It is far better to trust God and try to convince your family and friends to obey Jesus' teachings. The rest is up to them. The same goes to Gene about his tenet of universal salvation.God is merciful but his mercy is not false as you seem to think.
Gene,
I do not believe either good or evil were created. I believe good has existed as long as God has and the concept of evil has existed just as long though it did not occur until the first of God creations rebelled against Him. I believe that was Satan.
Do you believe God can be tempted by evil?
If so do you believe God can do evil?
Hi KW ,
What about the God that says these things?Jas5
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.Kerwin ………I don not believe the Creator of all things can be tempted at all. I don't know where you got that from. If God said he created everything then that does include good and evil also brother. I quoted a scripture the proved it and you simple change the word to fit your comprehension of it. This is why no progress can be made Here. sorry brother.
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………….gene
Gene wrote:
Quote I quoted a scripture the proved it and you simple change the word to fit your comprehension of it. This is why no progress can be made Here.
I agree that no progress can be made as long as we each choose to stick to our opinions on the matter. I do not agree that the scripture you quoted proved God created evil. The scripture you chose to use is using an outdated form of English that we have not fully departed from because evil at the present time has more definitions that you wish to assign to it. One definition dictionary.com attributes to evil is “anything causing injury or harm” and disasters do that. Even if you go back to the Hebrew word used I pointed out is has multiple definitions. At best you can say you cited a debatable scripture.
Still I believe the point is irrelevant to the string of reasoning I was using about free choice and how we are created by God some for as children of Satan and some as children of the kingdom. I believe I made that point so there is no real sense to going on.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Our will is not so free as many think here. It is mostly influenced by the cause and effects in God's creation. If we have this so called free will we could have always chosen to be good. No one in this world wants to be bad person but knowingly we do evil. Because our nature is of flesh where nothing that is good exists as Paul rightly said. Many times we read Bible with our preconceived ideas thereby we are guided by our intentions. We come to God because he draws us to Him. Without His action there is no coming to God. Our so called free will will not help us in this matter. I hope you will think on these lines.Peace to you
AdamGollamudi wrote:
Quote No one in this world wants to be bad person but knowingly we do evil.
Do you know the inner intents of all people. I do not believe you do as God chooses to reserve that ability for Himself though Jesus can read hearts and so may be an exception. I do know what scripture states and it clearly states those who choose to reject the true gospel of Christ choose to reject it because they love evil. That counters your premise which is a false hope for those who hate God in their inner parts even though the may say they love Him with their mouths.
Still not all people are like that and those few that hunger and thirst for righteousness will obtain it for God promised that through his Son Jesus The Anointed One.
I choose to believe Jesus when he teaches:
Matthew 7:13-14(NIV) reads:
Quote “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
I personally wish what you say was correct but the children of Satan are necessary to purify the children of righteousness just as it is written:
Romans 9:23-24(NIV) reads:
Quote What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
God is just and to twist scriptures because you believe otherwise is not good even if you are twisting scripture to make God just by your standards for your standards are evil and God’s are righteous. Beware Satan is tricky for did He not fool both Adam and Eve who personally knew God.
Adam……….these who espouse so-called (FREE WILL) have yet to produce (ONE Scripture) that say we have (FREE WILL) Choices. And notice how they talk out of both sides of the mouths, one side say we Choose for ourselves and the other side says GOD Crates these vessels of Good and EVIL, this only shows their confusions on the matter. Jesus Said if you (being), (existing in an evil state), know how to give good gifts, how much more will your Heavenly Father Give them that ask his spirit. Also notice Kerwin says “Beware Satan is tricky for did He not fool (BOTH) Adam and EVE, who personally knew GOD”. Yet Scripture says Adam was (NOT FOOLED). They also say the word (EVIL) does not mean Evil So change the meaning of EVIL to be something else even though it is pronounced 442 in scripture as Evil and very few time as anything else. They as a result probably don't think that there is any such thing as good and (EVIL) seeing the word EVIL doesn't mean Evil to them. All of this changing of Scripture to fit their own dogmas are what caused so much confusions here and verywhere else. They profess GOD but deny the POWER thereof as scripture says, saying it is there own so-called (FREE Will) Choices the brings them there salvation . They accuse other of twisting Scripture but they have no trouble doing it to fit (THEIR) DOGMAS. Continue to let the Spirit of GOD guide your mind and thoughts, for many false teachers and deceivers are in the world Brother.
Love and peace to you and yours Adam…………………………………gene
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