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Nick……..Then show us where it says (NOT) all will ultimately be saved. Your refusal to except the power and Will of God is a problem here ” God who would have (ALL) men to be saved” , you go against GOD's Will and have no scripture to back it up. If God can save murders and Harlots and fornicators and others by changing their hearts and minds, what makes you think he can't do it for ALL, Doesn't it say God is no respecter of Persons, So why should he save one and not another. And if he were to destory some one it's not because he couldn't save them if he wanted to.
peace……………….gene
Hi brother Nick,
I appreciate your response to my post. But I am more convinced by our brothers Chosen One and Gene because God certainly having the capability of saving all men. I don't know when it will happen.Hi GM,
So because God can and wants to God will?Sorry but it is not written.
That should be your foundation.Hi Gollamundi.
Thank you for your appreciation. You are right, God does have the capability of saving all, and He will. Look way back in the book of “Isaiah” Chapter 46:10-11. This is God describing Himself:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter,
And from aforetime, what has not yet been done.
Saying, All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.11 Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about!
I formed. Indeed, I will do it.Are these words not inspiring,? They confirm that our God is in complete control, and He “WILL DO” all His desires. If He desires all mankind to be saved, He will do it, who can oppose?
The book of Ephesians is a great book to get the overall picture of what God is doing with His creation, especially the first chapter.
Also, I find the Concordant website a great source for truth of scripture, (concordant.org)
Blessings, Jerry.
Chosenone………I totally agree , those scriptures only confirms other scriptures that our Heavenly Father will do His will and his will is that NON PARISH. God Will SAVE YET AS BY FIRE, intense Judgments , Nick seems to think we are saying it a snap of the fingers salvation were talking about, but nothing could be further from the truth, it's a very intense salvation and even now this intensity is taking place in the House hold of God, all who are called and chosen are experiencing it, God disciplines his children and scourges (EVERY SON) He excepts. Its no cake walk for no body. God Judgments are very serious and do cause extreme suffering on the disobedient. It's not easy at least it hasn't been for me specially when I sin knowingly. I have seen times of great Joy and have seen times of severity, “there is both goodness (AND) SEVERITY WITH GOD”. Nick we are not saying it's easy to get saved as you suppose we are.
Chosenone may the Lord continue to bless you and Keep you, love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 03 2008,07:24) Hi GM,
1Tim410 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
So what does SAVIOUR mean here?
It isd not eternal salvation as discrimination is made between those who believe and those who do not and no one suggests there are several levels of salvation[except the JWs]
Number 4990
Transliteration:
soter {so-tare'}
Word Origin:
from 4982
TDNT:
7:1003,1132
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
Saviour 24Total: 24
Definition:
saviour, deliverer, preserver The name was given by the ancients to deities, esp. tutelary deities, to princes, kings, and in general to men who had conferred signal benefits upon their country, and in more degenerate days by the way of flattery to personages of influenceGod is the Helper, the Preserver, the Deliverer from evil of all men till His will decides otherwise.
Men take all sorts of risks and encounter all kinds of problems during their lives and God often intervenes to preserve them.
In the case of believers His hand is much more strongly in their favour especially in response to prayer.
Hi Nick,To me it seems that you are playing with words here and adding your thoughts to what the scripture says – Jesus is the saviour of the world, especially of believers means just that. There is not 2 salvations one of the physical which unbelievers get until they get eternal torment in hell and a physical/spiritual salvation for the believers who have saved themselves by making the right choice.
John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard [him] ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
In this passage the same word is used and it says that the Christ is the Saviour of the world. Not a limited saviour who will only save a select few.
Chosenone provided scripture that says all men will be saved and you twist it to mean something different by saying that the word saviour does not mean saving it means selectively saving.
When Jesus was raised from the dead by the Spirit of God that is what salvation is – death of the flesh and resurrection by the Spirit.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 04 2008,06:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 03 2008,07:24) Hi GM,
1Tim410 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
So what does SAVIOUR mean here?
It isd not eternal salvation as discrimination is made between those who believe and those who do not and no one suggests there are several levels of salvation[except the JWs]
Number 4990
Transliteration:
soter {so-tare'}
Word Origin:
from 4982
TDNT:
7:1003,1132
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
Saviour 24Total: 24
Definition:
saviour, deliverer, preserver The name was given by the ancients to deities, esp. tutelary deities, to princes, kings, and in general to men who had conferred signal benefits upon their country, and in more degenerate days by the way of flattery to personages of influenceGod is the Helper, the Preserver, the Deliverer from evil of all men till His will decides otherwise.
Men take all sorts of risks and encounter all kinds of problems during their lives and God often intervenes to preserve them.
In the case of believers His hand is much more strongly in their favour especially in response to prayer.
Hi Nick,To me it seems that you are playing with words here and adding your thoughts to what the scripture says – Jesus is the saviour of the world, especially of believers means just that. There is not 2 salvations one of the physical which unbelievers get until they get eternal torment in hell and a physical/spiritual salvation for the believers who have saved themselves by making the right choice.
John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard [him] ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
In this passage the same word is used and it says that the Christ is the Saviour of the world. Not a limited saviour who will only save a select few.
Chosenone provided scripture that says all men will be saved and you twist it to mean something different by saying that the word saviour does not mean saving it means selectively saving.
When Jesus was raised from the dead by the Spirit of God that is what salvation is – death of the flesh and resurrection by the Spirit.
Hello and Welcome! You are right in that all will have a chance to be saved. But few will have the chance to be Spirit Being and are the called out once. Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount tells us that many are called but few are chosen. He did come to save the World, but few understand.
Many will follow Satan in the end time. So we who do understand and are under Jesus Blood, need to hang on to Jesus. IMO
Peace and Love IreneThank you Tiffany,
I believe that many have already been following “Satan” over the last 2000 years, what was the inquistions, etc all about? certainly not about being led by the Holy Spirit. Also all the denominations and different theologies can not be about being led of the Holy Spirit if they contradict each other. It seems to me that we do have choice and “free” will but it is limited to our perceptions, upbringing, etc and we are all subject to being deceived, when someone is deceived they are not aware of being deceived.
Jesus did not say that he came to give everyone the chance to be drawn to him (saved) he said John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
Meerkat…………if our wills are limited to our (perceptions, upbringing, etc, it then is influenced and is not (FREE WILL) But influenced Will which i agree with . Socrates Said in 425 BC there is no such thing as (FREE WILL) there is only Cause and effect, He concluded every effect was caused by something, and has never been disproved so far. Man want in religion to think He is the master of His own destiny and break down the absolute SOVEREIGNTY of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. Thats where all this so-called “free will” Got its start man wants not to obey GOD but to Be Him. All choices are (influenced Choices) not (free) at all, because in order for it to be (FREE) there can be (NO) influencing of (ANY) kind in order to be truly free.
Scripture says< Jesus came to set the captives (FREE), free of what?, free from there false thinking that was holding them captive , and He delievered us unto right thinking , does it not say "He lead a Host of captivity, captive. We are delievered from false thinking to right thinking, but not FREE Thinking all Humans are held captive by there thinking, the question is, is it right or wrong thinking, not (FREE) thinking. imo
Love and peace to you and yours, good to have you here brother…………………….gene
Hi Gene,
I'm actually a sister
…… I do agree with you that our wills are limited, some go to the other extreme and say that we have no control over what we do, I believe that it is more of a mid point where we have a choice of good or evil and the overcoming is choosing good over evil. When i said “free” will – you are correct I was meaning influenced will.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 05 2008,05:49) Hi Gene, I'm actually a sister
…… I do agree with you that our wills are limited, some go to the other extreme and say that we have no control over what we do, I believe that it is more of a mid point where we have a choice of good or evil and the overcoming is choosing good over evil. When i said “free” will – you are correct I was meaning influenced will.
Hi Sister it would be nice if we knew your first name or shall I call you kat? What will do we have? We can choose from good thoughts or evil. We can look at Porn or not. We do have choices. It is the evil that sneek into your lives like a Boyfriend or friend etc. that we have to very careful not to do. We do have a free will in that sense.
Peace and Love IreneIrene……….in the example you gave , you or anyone else will chose that which influences them the most, If God Spirit is influencing you will chose not to do those wrong things, It's GRACE (God's influencing on the heart) that causes us not to continue doing those things. It is a Spirit of cleansing at work in us, This is having nothing do with So-called “free wills”, but whits influencing you the most at the time you are presented with the opportunity. Imo
love and peace to you and yours…………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 05 2008,14:18) Irene……….in the example you gave , you or anyone else will chose that which influences them the most, If God Spirit is influencing you will chose not to do those wrong things, It's GRACE (God's influencing on the heart) that causes us not to continue doing those things. It is a Spirit of cleansing at work in us, This is having nothing do with So-called “free wills”, but whits influencing you the most at the time you are presented with the opportunity. Imo love and peace to you and yours…………………gene
Gen I still have a choice if I choose good over evil. In today's age especially for a man that is IMO it is hard to turn away from all.
I know what you are saying how God is cleaning us up because we have His Holy Spirit working in us. But that is not what we are discussing here. I thought the post is on free will? It is remarkable how some in spite of having God's Holy Spirit will still chose wrong.
Peace and Love IreneIrene……..The word FREE WILL, means a Will the is not influenced in (ANY) way or it is not Free, If I were to ask you to pick a piece of Cherry pie, or blueberry, or apple, or Peach, You would pick the one that has the greatest appeal to you at the moment. Now some would say you (FREELY) chose the piece you liked the best, but the fact is that kind of Pie was your favorite and influenced the most so you chose it. Nothing Free at all, but simply (Cause and Effect) , the cause was a past association with the pie you chose the effect was you chose it, Cause and effect has never been disproved everything we chose is because we are being influenced to chose it, Either by our carnal minds or by the Spirit of GOD in Us and guiding our choices influencing us in his ways, remember Irene we are (CREATED) unto good works.
peace and love to you Irene and yours…………………gene
Yes GB,
Those reborn from above are encouraged to let themselves be led by the Spirit but sadly the carnal mind still rules many who cannot actually submit to scripture as truth and continue in speculations.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 05 2008,15:34) Irene……..The word FREE WILL, means a Will the is not influenced in (ANY) way or it is not Free, If I were to ask you to pick a piece of Cherry pie, or blueberry, or apple, or Peach, You would pick the one that has the greatest appeal to you at the moment. Now some would say you (FREELY) chose the piece you liked the best, but the fact is that kind of Pie was your favorite and influenced the most so you chose it. Nothing Free at all, but simply (Cause and Effect) , the cause was a past association with the pie you chose the effect was you chose it, Cause and effect has never been disproved everything we chose is because we are being influenced to chose it, Either by our carnal minds or by the Spirit of GOD in Us and guiding our choices influencing us in his ways, remember Irene we are (CREATED) unto good works. peace and love to you Irene and yours…………………gene
free will
–noun 1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.942767,
free will
–noun 1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.Our choices are influenced by and dependant upon a lot of things:- our upbringing, social influences, peer pressure, depression and abuse among a lot of other things can cloud a persons reasoning.
A lot of people do the best they can with the cards they are dealt and maybe this is why Jesus said that
Luk 12:46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Luk 12:49I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luk 12:50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luk 12:51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.How free is our choice in relation to this passage
2Cr 4:4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
942767…….absolutely, we chose by what influences us the most, S0-called “FREE WILL”, is an invention of False Christanity, it a person trying to be a GOD, and has nothing to do with the truth of God. WE are caused to think GODLY we do not do it on our own. Rightiousness is a (CREATION OF GOD) we can't do it on our own its impossible, Jesus understood that , that why He said the son of Man can do nothing on His own. For what ever He sees the Father doing that He does, nothing was coming from Himself. He always gave GOD (ALL) the CREDIT. We need to also. if fact we need to completely put our will to death, and even that takes GOD to accomplish.
love and peace to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 07 2008,18:50) Yes GB,
Those reborn from above are encouraged to let themselves be led by the Spirit but sadly the carnal mind still rules many who cannot actually submit to scripture as truth and continue in speculations.
Nick…..They not only let themselves, they feed on whats from above, Remember GOD said open (WIDE) your mouth and (I) will fill it. We need to be just like those little baby birds and Look intently at the Father and open (WIDE) or Mouths and let HIM Fill Us brother, with His Spirit. The spirit will guide us into the deep things of GOD.peace…………….gene
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