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Hi Gene:
This is what the scripture states:
Quote 2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. A Christian should be obeying the Word of God. These are the works that God had foreordained for His children. But we have a choice as to whether or not we obey.
The unsaved will also be judged according to their works because they have knowledge of good and evil. This is what the scripture states:
Quote Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Why would God hold us accountable if we don't have the freedom to choose?
(42767……God holds all accountable because it proves his point “their is none righteous except God , a righteous man has righteousness (ascribed) to Him by God not by his works but by his FAITH in GOD even as Abraham did, Abraham's faith was (accounted ) to him for righteousness not that He himself (WAS) righteous, and even that Faith was given to Him from GOD. Jesus our lord said “Why callest me (GOOD) their is (NONE) GOOD) except (ONE) and that is GOD. Does it not say “for GOD looked for (ONE) righteous man and could find (NONE) therefore GOD took it upon His own arm to Bring (SALVATION)”. There are so many other scriptures that show this Point of GOD”S SOVEREIGNTY it would fill up a whole page of posting and more.
Our accountability has nothing to do with our so-called “FREE CHOICES” but GODS SOVEREIGNTY. There is (NONE) righteous NO NOT EVEN ONE GOD SAID> So much for “free righteous Choices” which only puff up a mans mind and makes him think he is his own salvation by His so called “FREE CHOICES”. Again for i don't know how many times, WE ARE (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS) IT IS A (CREATION OF GOD) NOT MANS “FREE CHOICES”.
said in love brother…………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2008,06:11) GB,
No armchair ride is possible.
We reach salvation through many tribulations.
Walk while the light is with you for night is coming on when none can walk.
Nick…..who is advocating a armchair religion i am certainly not. God has required Judgments on all evil and the tribulations that comes is the result of that evil and for the expressed purpose to educate us to the effects of all evil, so we can grow to hate it. We all will enter in through much tribulation, Jesus said you shall (ALL) be salted (seasoned) with FIRE (intense judgments).I am not advocating armchair any thing, in fact this fiery judgement begins at the house hole of God it self and extends out to (ALL)> In fact people who preach “free Wills” are in fact the ones who think its an armchair religion that they have control of, thy have became their own god's and controllers of their own destines, these try to sit in their temples showing themselves as God's. These also have made Jesus into a GOD also. With there false teachings of the TRINITY.
It all about taking GOD SOVEREIGNTY to Man. And making man the controller of His salvation by His so-called “free will” repentance. Pure LIES. No where in scripture does it say man our of his “free Will” repents.
said in love ……………..gene
GB,
God wants men to cooperate with Grace.
They need to choose.Even Jesus had choice.
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, ” Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,10:56) (42767……God holds all accountable because it proves his point “their is none righteous except God , a righteous man has righteousness (ascribed) to Him by God not by his works but by his FAITH in GOD even as Abraham did, Abraham's faith was (accounted ) to him for righteousness not that He himself (WAS) righteous, and even that Faith was given to Him from GOD. Jesus our lord said “Why callest me (GOOD) their is (NONE) GOOD) except (ONE) and that is GOD. Does it not say “for GOD looked for (ONE) righteous man and could find (NONE) therefore GOD took it upon His own arm to Bring (SALVATION)”. There are so many other scriptures that show this Point of GOD”S SOVEREIGNTY it would fill up a whole page of posting and more. Our accountability has nothing to do with our so-called “FREE CHOICES” but GODS SOVEREIGNTY. There is (NONE) righteous NO NOT EVEN ONE GOD SAID> So much for “free righteous Choices” which only puff up a mans mind and makes him think he is his own salvation by His so called “FREE CHOICES”. Again for i don't know how many times, WE ARE (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS) IT IS A (CREATION OF GOD) NOT MANS “FREE CHOICES”.
said in love brother…………….gene
Hi Gene:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
God Bless
Nick…..> that proves my point Jesus did not say to the disciples they chose Him but HE chose them, Jesus under the direct influence of GOD chose the disciples whom GOD had already chosen caused them to follow Jesus. No where does this back up a individual choice by Jesus Himself. Jesus Said about the disciples when praying to God Father they were Yours and through has given them unto me. Jesus know full well the disciples were GOD's the Fathers choice, not his own. Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) of Himself, when are you going to understand that Nick. Jesus did not chose to be Jesus, John the Baptist did not chose to be John the Baptist, Jeremiah the prophet did not chose to be Jeremiah the prophet, Moses did not chose himself to be the spokesman of God to the Israelites.
When are you going to put yourself to death and trust in GOD to direct you Choices and give HIM the CREDIT. Nick if you continue to think you are saved by your own choices you will be rejected, remember what it say when Jesus returns (MANY) will come to Him and say Lord in (YOUR) name we have done all the (GOOD) Works and he will tell depart from me (YOU WORKER) of iniquity i know you not. He did not say the were not doing good works did he , but you see it was (their good works) They were doing by their own “free wills” falsely ascribing to God, when in fact GOD had nothing to do with it it was their own choices and they were think it was of God.
Point is unless it is God who is doing it in a person it will be rejected , unless the LORD Shall build the HOUSE, the (weary) builders ( a person himself) build in vain, all for nothing. “for we are Gods workmanship (CREATED) unto good works. Not by power or might , bit (BY) MY SPIRIT saith the eternal. Nick don't sell GOD the Father short, He will save whomever He wants to and will harden whomever He wants to. He is the potter and we the clay, and the clay has no power over the Potter.
If it is Gods WILL that ALL will be saved it will happen Nick. I am sorry if that makes you unhappy brother but GOD the Father will do what ever He Chooses to , “for GOD does (ALL THINGS) after the council of HIS (OWN) WILL.
said in love………..gene
GB,
Guess what.
You have choices every day.
Sadly so far you seem to choose against the truth of scripture.942767………what makes you think that I am talking about Faith< i am talking about Your own so-called "FREE WILLS", I totally agree with the point James makes about Faith, but that Faith did not come from a man own so-call "FREE WILL" it came from God Himself not the man. " for God Has (GIVEN) every man a measure of Faith. So even that FAITH you trying to use to shore up this idea of (free will) did not come from free will at all but from GOD, which even more proves my points.
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,12:23) 942767………what makes you think that I am talking about Faith< i am talking about Your own so-called "FREE WILLS", I totally agree with the point James makes about Faith, but that Faith did not come from a man own so-call "FREE WILL" it came from God Himself not the man. " for God Has (GIVEN) every man a measure of Faith. So even that FAITH you trying to use to shore up this idea of (free will) did not come from free will at all but from GOD, which even more proves my points. peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Hi Gene:Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, but when Faith comes man has a choice as to whether or not they will repent and serve God. The point is that “Faith without works is dead”. God may have influenced your decision, but nevertheless, it is one's decision. Abraham obeyed God, and it was through his obedience that he showed that he believed. It is the same with us if we are born again Christians. It is through our works of obedience to God's Word that we show that we believe.
God does not want anyone obeying Him because they have to obey. The motive is one of love, and to love is a choice.
The principle of “freedom to choose” is very important, and is one of the reasons that God allowed this world to continue after the fall of Adam. We are called into a relationship with Him, and we respond willingly or we reject Him willingly. It is a choice.Now is it not your choice whether or not you respond to this post or not?
God Bless
942767…..Please show me where it says when FAITH COMES MAN HAS A CHOICE as to whether or not they will repent and serve God. Please show me this written in scripture. Jesus said (NO MAN CAN) even come unto me unless the FATHER DRAW HIM, and if you check out the word draw you will find it comes from the word drag.
Do you understand God works in our minds and causes us to respond to Him, He is the one who transforms us in our minds and Heart why do you want to take the Glory of GOD from Him. He is the ONLY SAVIOR there is. As to you saying we a called into a relationship with Him and we respond willingly or we reject him willingly, it a choice, please tell us dis Paul get a call or was He knocked off His horse by a blinding light, was he willing on his own to chose God if so why did God do that to him, because God was showing His saving Power in Paul's life which by the way was Paul's calling at berth.
peace………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,13:45) 942767…..Please show me where it says when FAITH COMES MAN HAS A CHOICE as to whether or not they will repent and serve God. Please show me this written in scripture. Jesus said (NO MAN CAN) even come unto me unless the FATHER DRAW HIM, and if you check out the word draw you will find it comes from the word drag. Do you understand God works in our minds and causes us to respond to Him, He is the one who transforms us in our minds and Heart why do you want to take the Glory of GOD from Him. He is the ONLY SAVIOR there is. As to you saying we a called into a relationship with Him and we respond willingly or we reject him willingly, it a choice, please tell us dis Paul get a call or was He knocked off His horse by a blinding light, was he willing on his own to chose God if so why did God do that to him, because God was showing His saving Power in Paul's life which by the way was Paul's calling at berth.
peace………….gene
Hi Gene:I've already been over all of this with you before, and so, there is no need to continue with you in this converstation. Both you and I are responsible to God for what we teach, and so, I have stated what I believe to be the truth, and I have given you scripture to show why I teach what I teach.
Only the Word of God will survive the fire.
God Bless
Quote Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Quote (942767 @ Dec. 01 2008,14:06) Quote Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
942767……… If you also read you will find that Joshua and Caleb it says Had a different Spirit on them, and the rest all chose wrong be cause there minds were CARNAL, The Carnal mind is enmity to God is (NOT) subject to the laws of God Neither (CAN) be. The only a Carnal mind is subject to is (FEAR) that why fear is needed to control it. But is say (NOTHING) is made Perfect in FEAR. See how you can use scripture to support any false teaching as salvation by so-called “FREE WILL”, WE must be (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKSlove and peace………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2008,10:56) (42767……God holds all accountable because it proves his point “their is none righteous except God , a righteous man has righteousness (ascribed) to Him by God not by his works but by his FAITH in GOD even as Abraham did, Abraham's faith was (accounted ) to him for righteousness not that He himself (WAS) righteous, and even that Faith was given to Him from GOD. Jesus our lord said “Why callest me (GOOD) their is (NONE) GOOD) except (ONE) and that is GOD. Does it not say “for GOD looked for (ONE) righteous man and could find (NONE) therefore GOD took it upon His own arm to Bring (SALVATION)”. There are so many other scriptures that show this Point of GOD”S SOVEREIGNTY it would fill up a whole page of posting and more. Our accountability has nothing to do with our so-called “FREE CHOICES” but GODS SOVEREIGNTY. There is (NONE) righteous NO NOT EVEN ONE GOD SAID> So much for “free righteous Choices” which only puff up a mans mind and makes him think he is his own salvation by His so called “FREE CHOICES”. Again for i don't know how many times, WE ARE (CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS) IT IS A (CREATION OF GOD) NOT MANS “FREE CHOICES”.
said in love brother…………….gene
Amen to that post brother Gene. I appreciate your concern on this wonderful narration on 'free will'.Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 30 2008,19:10) Hi GM,
Do you too wish to minimise the VINE?
I choose to disagree that he was only like any other vessel.
“In every house there are many vessels…some gold, some silver and some earthy”
Hi brother Nick,
Where I have minimised Jesus our Lord ? He is certainly desrves his position next to God but he is not God himself. Don't forget he is also called an apostle and High priest of God as mentioned in Heb 3:1 “Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess. 2He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house”.
He is our man mediator not God category as many teach here since God is only one as told by Paul in Gal 3:
20 “A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one”. as well as 1 Tim 2:
5 “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”,
I still stress that Jesus' vessel was similar to our vessel except it was made for greater honour than ours but he is still from our category of human nature not angelic or God nature.
Hope you will agree with me.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamHi Gene and Adam:
There is only one thing left for me to do, and that is to pray that God will give you revelation knowledge of the truth, and that I will do.
God Bless
Hi 942767.
I know we can disagree with one another, and this topic does have its share. But I have to agree with Gene and Adam that we do not have free will.
Eph.1:1-13 …1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to all the saints who are also believers in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials, in Christ,
4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:
7 in Whom we are having the deliverance through His blood, the forgiveness of offenses in accord with the riches of His grace,
8 which He lavishes on us; in all wisdom and prudence
9 making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)
10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
12 that we should be for the laud of His glory, who are pre-expectant in the Christ.
13 In Whom you also — on hearing the word of truth, the evangel of your salvation — in Whom on believing also, you are sealed with the holy spirit of promise
14 (which is an earnest of the enjoyment of our allotment, to the deliverance of that which has been procured) for the laud of His glory!The book of Ephesians is very good at explaining how we are all predestined, and that God is working ALL in accord of HIS WILL. So how can we have 'free will', if God is working ALL, in accord of HIS WILL?
Just my opinion, no offence intended.
Blessings, Jerry.
You see 94,
Unless they can make choice divinely controlled they cannot preach universal salvation successfully.
Men being men would always choose the opposite to what you would expect.So they must overide any thought of options so the magic philosophy can work.
shazzam!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2008,12:20) You see 94,
Unless they can make choice divinely controlled they cannot preach universal salvation successfully.
Men being men would always choose the opposite to what you would expect.So they must overide any thought of options so the magic philosophy can work.
shazzam!!
Hi Nick:Since they all agree, I guess they will start their very own denomination.
I am praying for them.
God Bless
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