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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 19 2008,06:07) Hi 94,
You say[emphasis mine]
“Yes, I believe that God is working in US to accomplish His purpose in our lives because He loves US and also that He might be glorified through the life that WE live in obedience to Him, but WE have a choice. “
God does not live in all men.
He wants us to give His Spirit a home.
Hi Nick:Of course, I agree. I was referring to born again Christians.
Quote Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Quote (942767 @ Oct. 19 2008,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 18 2008,16:39) Hi 94,
The book of Romans is written to the neophyte Christians of Jewish stock.
They were already initiated into Christ but were not embedding their faith and letting Christ's Spirit rule.
It was not offering a new way of salvation to all men but encouraigng those trying to turn back to walk in the Spirit.
Hi Nick:There is only one way to be saved, and that is by reconciled to God through the Lord Jesus.
What then is the gospel according to you?
Hi 94,
It is God Who decides who is reconciled to Him.Jesus opened the door of the Kingdom and sent invites to the wedding feast.
But many will yet find eternal reconciliation by the sovereign mercy of His God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 19 2008,06:13) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 19 2008,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 18 2008,16:39) Hi 94,
The book of Romans is written to the neophyte Christians of Jewish stock.
They were already initiated into Christ but were not embedding their faith and letting Christ's Spirit rule.
It was not offering a new way of salvation to all men but encouraigng those trying to turn back to walk in the Spirit.
Hi Nick:There is only one way to be saved, and that is by reconciled to God through the Lord Jesus.
What then is the gospel according to you?
Hi 94,
It is God Who decides who is reconciled to Him.Jesus opened the door of the Kingdom and sent invites to the wedding feast.
But many will yet find eternal reconciliation by the sovereign mercy of His God.
Hi Nick:This is what Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Hi 942767.
In your reply, you say: Hi CO:Yes, I believe that God is working in us to accomplish His purpose in our lives because He loves us and also that He might be glorified through the life that we live in obedience to Him, but we have a choice. God does not force us to do any thing, and we are not robots that are programmed to do what He says automatically. In other words, we have the freedom to choose which is what I mean by “free will”. Jesus said: if you love me keep my commandments, and I do and so I obey him out of my love for him, for God, and for humanity.
Quote
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.ANSWER: In your reply you say “we have the freedom to choose, which I meant by 'free will'. This part I do not agree with, I believe that scripture says it is God who chooses us. I use Eph.1:4-6 as an example:
Eph.1: 4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:Also, another scripture, Eph.2:8 …For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
Notice “and this is not of you.” All the credit goes to God “lest anyone should be boasting.”I think this says quite plainly that we where “chosen”, predestined, before the disruption of the world. This, in part, is why I believe God will save all mankind. The order of ressurrection is at different times according to 1Cor.15, Then “God will be All in all.”
“All is of God” see in 1Cor.11-12, 2Co.5:18, Ro.11:36.
I realise that this is difficult to believe, seeing that no denomination I know of, teaches this. But give it some thought, I know you are a believer by your passion for truth, and I enjoy the exchange of beliefs with you because of the gentleness you express.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi CO,
So this is just a personal belief you have come to and you are willing to let it go?
There are sheep and there are goats.Nick.
Why do you just “pick and choose” what to believe that Jesus says, what other scriptures do you want changed?Quote (chosenone @ Oct. 19 2008,06:24) Hi 942767.
In your reply, you say: Hi CO:Yes, I believe that God is working in us to accomplish His purpose in our lives because He loves us and also that He might be glorified through the life that we live in obedience to Him, but we have a choice. God does not force us to do any thing, and we are not robots that are programmed to do what He says automatically. In other words, we have the freedom to choose which is what I mean by “free will”. Jesus said: if you love me keep my commandments, and I do and so I obey him out of my love for him, for God, and for humanity.
Quote
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.ANSWER: In your reply you say “we have the freedom to choose, which I meant by 'free will'. This part I do not agree with, I believe that scripture says it is God who chooses us. I use Eph.1:4-6 as an example:
Eph.1: 4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:Also, another scripture, Eph.2:8 …For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
Notice “and this is not of you.” All the credit goes to God “lest anyone should be boasting.”I think this says quite plainly that we where “chosen”, predestined, before the disruption of the world. This, in part, is why I believe God will save all mankind. The order of ressurrection is at different times according to 1Cor.15, Then “God will be All in all.”
“All is of God” see in 1Cor.11-12, 2Co.5:18, Ro.11:36.I realise that this is difficult to believe, seeing that no denomination I know of, teaches this. But give it some thought, I know you are a believer by your passion for truth, and I enjoy the exchange of beliefs with you because of the gentleness you express.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi CO:We are predestined in that God has forseen who will believe and who will not. It is through the gospel that He has given us to preach that God calls people into a relationship with Him. If everyone will be saved, why bother preaching the gospel.
One of the principle reasons for God allowing this temporary world after Adam and Eve sinned is so that He could call a person into a relationship with him if they want to serve him. We have a choice.
It would be nice if everyone would be saved. God nor Jesus nor I nor you want to see anyone destroyed.
Quote 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 19 2008,07:31) Quote (chosenone @ Oct. 19 2008,06:24) Hi 942767.
In your reply, you say: Hi CO:Yes, I believe that God is working in us to accomplish His purpose in our lives because He loves us and also that He might be glorified through the life that we live in obedience to Him, but we have a choice. God does not force us to do any thing, and we are not robots that are programmed to do what He says automatically. In other words, we have the freedom to choose which is what I mean by “free will”. Jesus said: if you love me keep my commandments, and I do and so I obey him out of my love for him, for God, and for humanity.
Quote
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.ANSWER: In your reply you say “we have the freedom to choose, which I meant by 'free will'. This part I do not agree with, I believe that scripture says it is God who chooses us. I use Eph.1:4-6 as an example:
Eph.1: 4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:Also, another scripture, Eph.2:8 …For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
Notice “and this is not of you.” All the credit goes to God “lest anyone should be boasting.”I think this says quite plainly that we where “chosen”, predestined, before the disruption of the world. This, in part, is why I believe God will save all mankind. The order of ressurrection is at different times according to 1Cor.15, Then “God will be All in all.”
“All is of God” see in 1Cor.11-12, 2Co.5:18, Ro.11:36.I realise that this is difficult to believe, seeing that no denomination I know of, teaches this. But give it some thought, I know you are a believer by your passion for truth, and I enjoy the exchange of beliefs with you because of the gentleness you express.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi CO:We are predestined in that God has forseen who will believe and who will not. It is through the gospel that He has given us to preach that God calls people into a relationship with Him. If everyone will be saved, why bother preaching the gospel.
One of the principle reasons for God allowing this temporary world after Adam and Eve sinned is so that He could call a person into a relationship with him if they want to serve him. We have a choice.
It would be nice if everyone would be saved. God nor Jesus nor I nor you want to see anyone destroyed.
Quote 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hi 942767.
Thanks for your reply, and your opinion, much appreciated.I respect your opinion, because “All is of God”, what you believe now is Gods will.
Please give me your opinion on what the following scriptires mean to you, I will respect your point of view.
Eph.1:4-6. …4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:Eph.2:8-9 …8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.2Thess.2:13. …4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,
5 in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will,
6 for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved:I'm not trying to convince you at this time, just read as much as is neccesary of these scriptures so as to get them in correct context, and then give me your opinion of what is being said here. I would appreciate this.
God Bless.
Quote (chosenone @ Oct. 19 2008,06:49) Nick.
Why do you just “pick and choose” what to believe that Jesus says, what other scriptures do you want changed?
Hi CO,
You tell us the words of Jesus, the gospel of the kingdom is for all of us
then out of the other side for your mouth say it is not?Nick.
Let's just agree to disagree, this bickering has to stop, it won't change either of our minds.Hi CO:
You say:
Quote respect your opinion, because “All is of God”, what you believe now is Gods will I never said that I did not believe that it was God's will. Of course, it is God's will. The scripture states that is not His will that any man should perish but that all should come to repentance. What I have said and do say is that we have the freedom to choose whether or not we want to be reconciled to God when we hear gospel and we have a choice whether or not we will obey Him.
You ask me to comment on some scriptures, but I have already covered all of this with you. My opinion or yours does not matter unless it lines up with the Word of God. It is His Word that matters.
God Bless
Hi CO,
You believe the words of Jesus.
You know they are for you.Perhaps there is some sort of English difficulty if you reject these eternal words as being only for the Jews?
942767……where does it say we have the freedom to choose whether or not we want to be reconciled to God when we hear the Gospel and we have a choice whether or not we will obey him. Where is that written in Scripture? You word puts all the salvation process on the person and ignores the effectual working of the (POWER) of GOD'S GRACE in the person, leaving it all up the the person himself. A salvation of self Choices and therefore self works. We are saved by Grace and that (NOT) of OURSELVES. God the Father get the glory for our salvation from start to Finnish.
peace to you……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 21 2008,13:14) 942767……where does it say we have the freedom to choose whether or not we want to be reconciled to God when we hear the Gospel and we have a choice whether or not we will obey him. Where is that written in Scripture? You word puts all the salvation process on the person and ignores the effectual working of the (POWER) of GOD'S GRACE in the person, leaving it all up the the person himself. A salvation of self Choices and therefore self works. We are saved by Grace and that (NOT) of OURSELVES. God the Father get the glory for our salvation from start to Finnish. peace to you……….gene
Hi Gene:Where do the scriptures that state what you are advocating?
I gave Chosenone the scriptures in Romans that support what I teach in my discussion with him in this topic. Have you read what I have discussed with him?
There are also other scriptures in the 4 gospels, in 1John, 2 John and the book of Hebrews all of which chosenone seems to think that these scriptures do not apply to Christians from the gentile nations. How about you do you say that the scriptures in the gospels and these epistles do not apply to us?
I am not a robot that has been programmed to automatically obey the Word of God. I have a choice. How about you?
God Bless
942747………How do you explain where God says, “I will take out of you the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh, and I will write my laws on you hearts and will be unto you a God and you shall be my people”. And again “the gentiles who have not the law (but) do the things contained in them show the laws of God written on their hearts (BY) the Hand of GOD”. Where in any of this do you see the person themselves doing it. “For you are saved by (GRACE) and that (NOT) of YOURSELVES, it is a (GIFT) of GOD”. And again ” Not by power nor by strength, but by My Spirit says the ETERNAL”. 942747 the problem here is not understanding the real meaning of the word (GRACE). Grace is not just unmerited pardon, it is the Power and Operation of GOD in the mind and heart of a person. You seem to be worried about being a robot of some kind, My God make me His robot any time he wants to, i don't need my self righteousness to elevate to his Righteous level by some kind of self choices without being caused by him. If you understood that true righteousness is not attained by anyone it is created in them by GOD. There is a scripture that says they (PROFESS) GOD, But deny the POWER THEREOF. True righteousness is 100 % a creation of GOD ALONE. Eph 2:5 “Even when we were (DEAD) in sins, hath He quickened us together with Christ, by (GRACE YE ARE SAVED)> I don't see any thing here about our free will choices. We must understand God is SOVEREIGN in ALL things.
Peace and love to you…………..gene
Hi GB,
Did you think this prophecy was for all men?
Context
Ez36
1Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:….
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 21 2008,16:26) 942747………How do you explain where God says, “I will take out of you the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh, and I will write my laws on you hearts and will be unto you a God and you shall be my people”. And again “the gentiles who have not the law (but) do the things contained in them show the laws of God written on their hearts (BY) the Hand of GOD”. Where in any of this do you see the person themselves doing it. “For you are saved by (GRACE) and that (NOT) of YOURSELVES, it is a (GIFT) of GOD”. And again ” Not by power nor by strength, but by My Spirit says the ETERNAL”. 942747 the problem here is not understanding the real meaning of the word (GRACE). Grace is not just unmerited pardon, it is the Power and Operation of GOD in the mind and heart of a person. You seem to be worried about being a robot of some kind, My God make me His robot any time he wants to, i don't need my self righteousness to elevate to his Righteous level by some kind of self choices without being caused by him. If you understood that true righteousness is not attained by anyone it is created in them by GOD. There is a scripture that says they (PROFESS) GOD, But deny the POWER THEREOF. True righteousness is 100 % a creation of GOD ALONE. Eph 2:5 “Even when we were (DEAD) in sins, hath He quickened us together with Christ, by (GRACE YE ARE SAVED)> I don't see any thing here about our free will choices. We must understand God is SOVEREIGN in ALL things. Peace and love to you…………..gene
Those are excellent points on free will my brother Gene. Yes God created us as a new creation( 2 Cor 5:17) so that we may obey Him and do His will, not that we have full free freedom (will) to choose God by ourselves. Infact He chose and drawn us towardas Him by His grace. I hope our brother 942767 will agree on these lines because he always differs with us on this one topic.Thanks and peace to you
AdamNick…..Not all at this time, but some day all. The point was the way those who are under God's GRACE are saved now. I know all are not now chosen.
peace to you and yours………….gene
Hi GB,
Nor shall they be it seems as such is not written.
Grace is wasted on many still caught up in their own carnal wills.Grace is as rain
Hebrews 6:7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:Drinking is required
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