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Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 20 2008,17:34) Hi brother 942767,
I want to ask you one question;
How Jesus became the Savior of the world that was before his crucifixon and how can he save people who do not get opportunity to know about him even in this present world ?Thanks and peace to you
ADAM
Hi Adam:Before Jesus advent and minstry on earth, there were those who were striving to obey God. Enoch before the flood, Noah and his family, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the nation of Israel under the Law of Moses, and there may be others who were striving to obey God like Job, for example.
Although they did not know Jesus, he is the propitiation for their sins. They were striving to obey God but they made mistakes just as you and I.
Now as to the second part of your question, how can save people who do not get the opportunity to know him even in this present world?
Our obligation to the world in the present day is to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Whether or not it is conceivable that someone may have not heard the gospel preached to them, I do not know. In the day of the Apostle Paul, he states:
Quote Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.It appears that the Apostle Paul is saying that everyone would have heard the gospel.
Anything that I would say as to whether or not God can save someone who has not had the opportunity to hear the gospel would be speculation, but if I would say someone would have had to have been striving to obey God just as Enoch did before the flood, in order to be saved. I do not believe that anyone who died practicing sin wilfully will be saved.
I can, however, give you the following scripture which indicates that the judgment will be less severe on those who were practicing sin and did not know the Lord.
This is what the scripture states:
Quote Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.God Bless
Hi 94,
Quote
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.So this speaks of SERVANTS
The heathen do not serve our Master and LORD.Hi Nick:
Quote Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers This says unbelievers, and so, these series of verses indicate that the judgment will be more severe for those who know the truth and do not do it than for unbelievers who do not know the truth and are doing things that warrant punishment.
Hi 94
LORD OF THAT SERVANT?
To know the truth does not make anyone a SERVANT of God.
So these wasteful servants will SHARE the fate of unbelievers
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2008,07:45) Hi 94 LORD OF THAT SERVANT?
To know the truth does not make anyone a SERVANT of God.
So these wasteful servants will SHARE the fate of unbelievers
HI Nick:Quote Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.These were the Lord's servants but began practicing sin wilfully and therefore, since they knew the truth and left doing it, their judgment will be more severe than that of the unbelievers who practice sin wilfully but have never known the truth.
Quote Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.“HE THAT KNEW NOT, AND DID COMMIT THINGS WORTHY OF STRIPES…”. This has to refer to unbelievers because of servant of the Lord would know his will.
Hi 94,
Both verse 47 and 48 seem to speak of servants.
God choses and appoints His servants.
Unbelievers do not serve Him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2008,13:26) Hi 94,
Both verse 47 and 48 seem to speak of servants.
God choses and appoints His servants.
Unbelievers do not serve Him.
Hi Nick:I do not understand verse 48 to refer to a servant of the Lord because anyone who is a servant of the Lord would know his will.
I may be wrong, but this is the way that I understand this.
Hi 942767.
Here is an explanation of Luke 12:47-48 from “that source”, you know, the one you accurately accused me of quoting from.47 All God's judgments are tempered by attending circumstances. He does not require His creatures to live up to light which they do not have. Yet His judgments increase in severity according to the privileges enjoyed. Thus it is that Israel is subject to the most awful of the inflictions of the end time. How thankful we should be that His grace not only bestows transcendent privilege but brings immunity from judgment as well!
Hope this helps.
Blessings.NIck….God requires more of those who understand then those who don't understand, “to whom much is given much is required”. Thats why Judgment begin at the house of GOD. Look The Father and Jesus is in the business of saving not destroying, and this takes Judgments to bring about, some will have to be more severely dealt with then others, but be assured (ALL) will be dealt with. Because the discipline of God is on ever man and the severity of His judgments is what scourges ever accepted son of HIS. Even Jesus our brother, the first born was scourged by GOD the Father. If he did not escape it what makes us thing we will?. I say this so those who are now being scourged will not lose heart, but remember you who are going through these things , It's not about fear it's about discipline and being made right and becoming Sons and Daughters of our Heavenly Father. All this perfecting is done through LOVE, Not FEAR, for (NOTHING IS PERFECTED IN FEAR).
Peace to all who understand this……………..gene
GB,
Have you not heard of the second death and the lake of fire?
This is not about correction but destruction.
It was made for the devil and his angels.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 21 2008,15:38) Hi 94,
Really?
Why do you say this?
Nick:I already told you why. If you disagree, please show me why I'm wrong.
Hi 94,
You say all servants know His will.
As with all things we must seek our role in prayer
For Jesus told his servants to pray for that will to be done.
He identifies his family members by the fact of them doing that will.Mark 3:35
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2008,06:58) Hi 94,
You say all servants know His will.
As with all things we must seek our role in prayer
For Jesus told his servants to pray for that will to be done.
He identifies his family members by the fact of them doing that will.Mark 3:35
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
And so, does a servant of the Lord (someone who is serving him) know his will or not?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2008,09:00) GHi 94,
If he seeks it he will.
If he reads of the Word he will.
Hi Nick:The following is a dictionary defition of the word “servant”.
Quote 1. One who serves, or does services, voluntarily or on compulsion; a person who is employed by another for menial offices, or for other labor, and is subject to his command; a person who labors or exerts himself for the benefit of another, his master or employer; a subordinate helper. “A yearly hired servant.” How can you be a servant of someone if you don't know what he wants you to do?
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 21 2008,06:57) Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 20 2008,17:34) Hi brother 942767,
I want to ask you one question;
How Jesus became the Savior of the world that was before his crucifixon and how can he save people who do not get opportunity to know about him even in this present world ?Thanks and peace to you
ADAM
Hi Adam:Before Jesus advent and minstry on earth, there were those who were striving to obey God. Enoch before the flood, Noah and his family, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the nation of Israel under the Law of Moses, and there may be others who were striving to obey God like Job, for example.
Although they did not know Jesus, he is the propitiation for their sins. They were striving to obey God but they made mistakes just as you and I.
Now as to the second part of your question, how can save people who do not get the opportunity to know him even in this present world?
Our obligation to the world in the present day is to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Whether or not it is conceivable that someone may have not heard the gospel preached to them, I do not know. In the day of the Apostle Paul, he states:
Quote Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.It appears that the Apostle Paul is saying that everyone would have heard the gospel.
Anything that I would say as to whether or not God can save someone who has not had the opportunity to hear the gospel would be speculation, but if I would say someone would have had to have been striving to obey God just as Enoch did before the flood, in order to be saved. I do not believe that anyone who died practicing sin wilfully will be saved.
I can, however, give you the following scripture which indicates that the judgment will be less severe on those who were practicing sin and did not know the Lord.
This is what the scripture states:
Quote Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes].
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.God Bless
Hi brother 942767,
I appreciate your kind response to my post. In fact I was expecting that you would say Jesus the Christ also the second Adam is all sufficient for the redemption of all mankind right from first Adam till the end of ages. All O.T saints have not been received the kingdom of heaven so far because the kingdom of heaven was founded by Jesus on the day of Pentecost and it will be established in the millennial rule on this earth. As by one man, the first Adam the sin has entered and brought death and condemnation on all mankind also by one man Jesus the second Adam redemption and forgiveness of sins has been established if they believe in his name.But my question to you was how could the people prior to Jesus believe in his name and get saved ?
also how many in this present world are dying without even hearing the name of Jesus how can they be saved if at all only the name of Jesus has to be accepted ?
When can all will be saved as mentioned in the bible ?Thanks and peace to you
AdamHi 94,
John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.Hi Adam.
Do you mind if I try and answer your question? First concider the scripture (2.Cor.5:18-19) that says … 18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
These verses are saying that God has “conciliated” the WORLD to Himself, not counting our sins anymore. So, in this era, He sees no sin in anyone. Now “conciliate” means a one-way acceptance, God to us. All mankind has not yet conciliated to God, meaning not all mankind has accepted Gods conciliation. BUT! (remember.. “All is of God”), God will RECONCILIATE all manking to Himself, meaning a two-way acceptance, God to mankind, and mankind to God. (See Eph.2:16-17) … that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it. Notice the word “RECONCILIATE”, meaning a two-way relationship.
Now this is meaning belonging to the “Body of Christ”. It was “ALL OF GOD”, you and I and all mankind had no part in our salvation, it was ALL of God. See Eph.2:8-10 …8 For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present,
9 not of works, lest anyone should be boasting.
10 For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
So I have just quoted you scripture to try and equate to you, that it is God Who is in complete control, we have no part in our salvation. God will reconcile ALL mankind to Himself at the Consummation, (see Phil.2:10-13) …10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean,
11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father.
12 So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect,
13 for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight. Caution, don't single out the later part of verse 12 “be carrying your own salvation into effect”, when taken out of context with the whole chapter, seems like it is up to you, like some on this site will try and point out.
Hope this clears some things up for you.God Bless, Jerry.
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