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Hi brother Nick,
Please don't be so much judgmental about the posts of brother Gene. Everyone of us here are giving our understanding on the scriptures and on certain doctrines. There can be different opinions that doesn't mean we should judge them. Please allow any one to share what he knows on that we need not follow everything what he says. Every one of us here are matured and no one can merely follow somebody. I have not seen many who have given up their doctrines except for a few.
Please be patient and we will put everything in order by the guidence of the Holy Spirit.
Thanks and blessings
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2008,14:08) Hin GB,
So if you are so controlled by God how come some much of what you teach seems to be speculation?
If it was from the Spirit if God should it be rather of the word and not carnal?
Nick….Show me where i don't back scripture with what i am saying.
In fact i have given you over 10 or 12 Scriptures on where Jesus said the words he spoke were not his and you Just ignore them, so it doesn't matter how many scriptures are give you, You use the idea is it scriptural as a front because even if it is scripture you could care less as you have demonstrated time and time again to all of us.Who place you as my judge or anyone else for that matter we all have the right to our opinions or is it only you who can give opinions. You have put yourself above others but in truth it only in your deceived mind you think that. To me you know very little scripture and contribute nothing but confusion and discourse.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2008,07:51) Hi GB,
I do not agree that God dominates and controls His children.
Eph.1:11 …the one (God) Who is operating all in accord with the councel of His will.Another scripture Nick doesn't believe!
Blessings.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2008,13:32) Quote (theodorej @ July 05 2008,05:35) Quote (chosenone @ July 02 2008,09:08) If you believe man has free will, then show where is says so in scripture.
Greetings…..Perhaps your time would be better spent studying the fruits of willfull disobedience instead of the definition of free will verbatum….Adam and Eve were instructed by God not to partake of the tree of the knowledge of God and Evil…I have to assume that,the fact that they knowingly partook of the tree, they were exercising their free will to disobey God and in doing so reaped the consequences…..
theadore….it says eve was deceived , but Adam was not, So why would Adam eat of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil in the first place. In my opinion it was because He came to know that it was needful to make a person wise, and to be Like God, Notice after they ate their eyes were opened, so before they ate there eyes were not opened and God does not say that man was like Him, until He ate and then God said Look man has become like us knowing (experiencing) good and evil.Mans fall was not an accident it was all part of God's Plan, or how could Jesus been crucified from the foundations of the earth then, and it say God knows the End from the Beginning. He Know all along man would fall it was all in His plan. And He know all along that He would send the man Jesus, for the sacrifice of the world.
Greetings Gene…..That is a reasonable question….Are you married..(he,he)..Perhaps,because God is all knowing,your thesis has merit with respect to a predetermined outcome,however,that does not deminish the fact that,they did not have to partake of the fruit but instead they made a conscious decision to disobey Gods instruction…Be it Eve who seccumb to the begiling serpant and later convinced her husband Adam to eat of it…..Let us not forget,there was considerable time period when the tree was available and they choose to obey and not partake of it….The serpant appealed to the vanity and pride of the women so as to accomplish his feat….The man simply failed to be his own person and made a consious decision to disobey….theodore……scriptures say God is all knowing and Knows the end from the beginning, and Jesus was sacrificed from the foundations of the earth, we must them ask ourselves why was Jesus sacrificed from the foundations of the earth, There could be only one answer, because God know all along what was going to happen, the mind he gave man would do what it did, He know that, He could have given a perfect mind if He wanted to a mind that would have reject sin, But the mind man is born with is Carnal and is said to be an enemy of God not even subject to Gods laws neither indeed can be, it says.
There could be only one reason God created man this way, because He wanted man to experience both, good and evil, it's paramount for this to take place. If it were not for this reason then God would simply be a monster to have allowed this world to continue the way it does. Evil explains Good and Good explains Evil, both experiences are needed to give us true understanding, this experience is God teaching us, in order to become like him, just as he said when man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “Look man has become like us (how) by knowing (enemate relationship with) good and evil. It makes sense if you think about it, it was all planed and purposed from the very beginning. If it wasn't God didn't know the end from the beginning them as it say He does.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,03:21) theodore……scriptures say God is all knowing and Knows the end from the beginning, and Jesus was sacrificed from the foundations of the earth, we must them ask ourselves why was Jesus sacrificed from the foundations of the earth, There could be only one answer, because God know all along what was going to happen, the mind he gave man would do what it did, He know that, He could have given a perfect mind if He wanted to a mind that would have reject sin, But the mind man is born with is Carnal and is said to be an enemy of God not even subject to Gods laws neither indeed can be, it says. There could be only one reason God created man this way, because He wanted man to experience both, good and evil, it's paramount for this to take place. If it were not for this reason then God would simply be a monster to have allowed this world to continue the way it does. Evil explains Good and Good explains Evil, both experiences are needed to give us true understanding, this experience is God teaching us, in order to become like him, just as he said when man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “Look man has become like us (how) by knowing (enemate relationship with) good and evil. It makes sense if you think about it, it was all planed and purposed from the very beginning. If it wasn't God didn't know the end from the beginning them as it say He does.
Hi TJ,
KJV has an obscure translation of that verse that makes it read as if the Lamb was sacrified from the beginning of the earth. However it is clarified in other versions.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2008,05:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,03:21) theodore……scriptures say God is all knowing and Knows the end from the beginning, and Jesus was sacrificed from the foundations of the earth, we must them ask ourselves why was Jesus sacrificed from the foundations of the earth, There could be only one answer, because God know all along what was going to happen, the mind he gave man would do what it did, He know that, He could have given a perfect mind if He wanted to a mind that would have reject sin, But the mind man is born with is Carnal and is said to be an enemy of God not even subject to Gods laws neither indeed can be, it says. There could be only one reason God created man this way, because He wanted man to experience both, good and evil, it's paramount for this to take place. If it were not for this reason then God would simply be a monster to have allowed this world to continue the way it does. Evil explains Good and Good explains Evil, both experiences are needed to give us true understanding, this experience is God teaching us, in order to become like him, just as he said when man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “Look man has become like us (how) by knowing (enemate relationship with) good and evil. It makes sense if you think about it, it was all planed and purposed from the very beginning. If it wasn't God didn't know the end from the beginning them as it say He does.
Hi TJ,
KJV has an obscure translation of that verse that makes it read as if the Lamb was sacrified from the beginning of the earth. However it is clarified in other versions.
NHI questioned this, but found your words to be true.
The NET renders the verse…
13:8 and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast,26 everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world27 in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.28 Rev 13:8
The scholars comentate…
27tn The prepositional phrase “since the foundation of the world” is traditionally translated as a modifier of the immediately preceding phrase in the Greek text, “the Lamb who was killed” (so also G. B. Caird, Revelation [HNTC], 168), but it is more likely that the phrase “since the foundation of the world” modifies the verb “written” (as translated above). Confirmation of this can be found in Rev 17:8 where the phrase “written in the book of life since the foundation of the world” occurs with no ambiguity.
So you are correct, there seems to be ambiguity in Rev 13:8, but the other scriptures clear it up.
WJ
Wj…you can find anything on the net to support any position you take , but if we say God knows the end from the beginning then he must have known Jesus would be sacrificed for the sins of the world also. To say other wise would deny Him know the end from the beginning then. Jesus was not a come along after ward plan or a option of some kind. If we See an all knowing God who is in complete control of His creation we have got to see that Jesus was part of that plan all along.
IMO…..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2008,06:31) Wj…you can find anything on the net to support any position you take , but if we say God knows the end from the beginning then he must have known Jesus would be sacrificed for the sins of the world also. To say other wise would deny Him know the end from the beginning then. Jesus was not a come along after ward plan or a option of some kind. If we See an all knowing God who is in complete control of His creation we have got to see that Jesus was part of that plan all along. IMO…..gene
GBThere is nothing in my post to indicate God does not know all things. However, Yeshua being the Lamb of God that was slain did not come to pass until 2000 years ago.
Unitarians would use this ambiguous scripture in supporting there anti-preexistent agenda.
But the scripture is ambiguous and other scriptures support the fact that it should be interpreted as shown.
WJ
WJ…again I know you and nick would more then likely not want that to say what it says i understand that, but as far as i am concerned it does fit with the foreknowledge of an all wise and knowing God , who said He knew the End from the Beginning, and it certainly fit that. We will have to agree to disagree on this.
peace to you and yours……..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 07 2008,14:43) Chosenone that right only one Will, not our will but God.s will will be done. That how God will be in all and through All. Gods kingdom is where His Will only is done, not ams will or his so-called (FREE Will)
peace brother………..gene
Hi GB,
Jesus told us to pray for that result.
So what of those who are godless?Nick…..who am I to judge who is Godless, Ill leave that up to God.
I try daily to walk in accordance to the will of God, I cant speak for others. I have enough trouble trying to always do right my self. I seek mercy for me and for all. That God may have mercy on every Soul that ever lived.
Nick….another assumption, Show us where that is said exactly. The gospel being preached doesn't identify anything.The problem with you view is your judging what the Gospel is and if it doesn't meat your views then to you its not the gospel.
I thought the Gospel was the word of Christ, the SEED that was thrown out into the field and the good soil it landed in was those who were the elect of God. At least that what my bible says. Show us what you have quoted in scriptures.
Hi GB,
Mt13
18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Hi brother Nick,
The seed was actually meant for sowing in the good soil only. But some seeds have fallen in other places as spill overs..IMO
Adam
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