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Hi All
Acts 7:51
Ye stiffnecked (sklerotrachelos) and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist (antipipto) the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, **and have not kept it**.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord; lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
stiffnecked Greek (sklerotrachelos), which means;
1) stiffnecked
2) stubborn, headstrong, obstinateObviously in opposition to a God who “does it all” as the “Calvinist” would claim.
Resist Greek (antipipto), which means;
1) to fall upon, run against
2) to be adverse, oppose, strive againstAgain, they appose the work of grace in their hearts, for they are stubborn and headstrong.
They strive against his leading. Yet we know that the Spirit will not always strive with man.
The stoning of Stephen was a good example of men resisting the Holy Spirit and rebelling against him. These men were so convicted by the Spirit that they even put their hands over their ears so they wouldn’t have to hear more of the word of God through Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit.
Did God force these men to kill Stephen calling upon the Lord?
They heard the word of the Lord and were drawn by that word, but did the Lord “do it all for them” and cause them to repent?
They heard and witnessed with their own eyes and ears Stephen seeing the Lord, but did God make them repent?
No they exercised the freedom of choice regardless of the influence and chose to rebel against the words of God and stoned the man of God.
Every man shall give account for what he has done.
Rom 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.God leads men to repent. He does not show favorites. Yeshua was lifted up and draws all men to repent, but not all repent. Some will not repent even when they are in torment.
More proof that man is a free moral agent and can freely choose to follow him or to reject him.
WJ
Hi All
Acts 7:51
Ye stiffnecked (sklerotrachelos) and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist (antipipto) the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, **and have not kept it**.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord; lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
stiffnecked Greek (sklerotrachelos), which means;
1) stiffnecked
2) stubborn, headstrong, obstinateObviously in opposition to a God who “does it all” as the “Calvinist” would claim.
Resist Greek (antipipto), which means;
1) to fall upon, run against
2) to be adverse, oppose, strive againstAgain, they appose the work of grace in their hearts, for they are stubborn and headstrong.
They strive against his leading. Yet we know that the Spirit will not always strive with man.
The stoning of Stephen was a good example of men resisting the Holy Spirit and rebelling against him. These men were so convicted by the Spirit that they even put their hands over their ears so they wouldn’t have to hear more of the word of God through Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit.
Did God force these men to kill Stephen calling upon the Lord?
They heard the word of the Lord and were drawn by that word, but did the Lord “do it all for them” and cause them to repent?
They heard and witnessed with their own eyes and ears Stephen seeing the Lord, but did God make them repent?
No they exercised the freedom of choice regardless of the influence and chose to rebel against the words of God and stoned the man of God.
Every man shall give account for what he has done.
Rom 2:4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.God leads men to repent. He does not show favorites. Yeshua was lifted up and draws all men to repent, but not all repent. Some will not repent even when they are in torment.
More proof that man is a free moral agent and can freely choose to follow him or to reject him.
WJ
Quote (gollamudi @ July 06 2008,14:39) See your post that I have highlighted in mine.
Thanks
Adam
Hi GM,
Why would you feel accused?
You should not.Hi GM,
Compells us?
Where is it written that men are driven by God?
That is not the freeing gentle God of love that the bible reveals.God always allows choice
Quote (gollamudi @ July 05 2008,13:51) Hi Nick,
I think you got it right, we were not able to choose God by our 'free wills' but God the Father has drawn us with His love and grace towards Him certainly He influenced us to come to Him as per His foreordained plan and Election. This is the reason why many have not come to the this God though they could have used their free wills and chosen Him if they really have that.Yes Jesus has set us free from bodage of sin and Satan for what purpose? again to obey to God it doesn't give us licence to sin by using our freedom or 'free will'. Still we have two natures in us which striving against each other; one is the Spirit nature which is given by God and the other is the old sinful nature that is still available in these mirtal bodies till we die. Are we not influenced by both of these natures. Where is the question of 'free will' here? There is only difference than when we were away from God is now we can choose to do good with the influence of the Spirit of God which was not possible earlier. That's why I was mentioning earlier whatever is feeded in our minds that only will be chosen by us by its influence not any 'free will' to choose different than what is not available in our minds.
This is all I wanted to share. Infact I was a srong believer of 'free will' earlier but now I am unlearning and knowing some thing which is more relevant to our lives and to realise the grace of God and His continous guidence in my life.
Peace to you
Adam
Good stuff GM.Hi brother, God's love must be experienced to understand what is the meaning of 'Love compels' ,here is the verse for that in 2 Cor 5:14-15
“For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.”
Who told God will not allow choices? every time you are making me liar as I feel whenever you say this.
Peace to you
AdamAdam………Nick is a perverter of what people say, He add to there meaning or twists what they are truly saying and why T8 doesn't do some thing about it is beyond me.
I would have removed Him long ago or at least reprimanded Him. He creates confusion and perverts dialog, When he is called to ansewr question of when some one said something he said they said He never answers or shows them where the did say something he said they did.don't let him discourage you Adam…………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,20:51) Quote (gollamudi @ July 05 2008,13:51) Hi Nick,
I think you got it right, we were not able to choose God by our 'free wills' but God the Father has drawn us with His love and grace towards Him certainly He influenced us to come to Him as per His foreordained plan and Election. This is the reason why many have not come to the this God though they could have used their free wills and chosen Him if they really have that.Yes Jesus has set us free from bodage of sin and Satan for what purpose? again to obey to God it doesn't give us licence to sin by using our freedom or 'free will'. Still we have two natures in us which striving against each other; one is the Spirit nature which is given by God and the other is the old sinful nature that is still available in these mirtal bodies till we die. Are we not influenced by both of these natures. Where is the question of 'free will' here? There is only difference than when we were away from God is now we can choose to do good with the influence of the Spirit of God which was not possible earlier. That's why I was mentioning earlier whatever is feeded in our minds that only will be chosen by us by its influence not any 'free will' to choose different than what is not available in our minds.
This is all I wanted to share. Infact I was a srong believer of 'free will' earlier but now I am unlearning and knowing some thing which is more relevant to our lives and to realise the grace of God and His continous guidence in my life.
Peace to you
Adam
Good stuff GM.
Nick….exactly right, that is what me and Adam and Chosenone and 942767, and others were saying all along. There is no such thing as (FREE WILL) there is cause and effect God effects our thoughts and mind to cause us to choose his way, this is what (GRACE) IS> may GOD BLESS YOU FOR SEEING THAT.Peace brother…………….gene
Quote (gollamudi @ July 06 2008,16:58) Hi brother,
You missed a great word “love”. yes God is not a dictator like humans but He compells us through His wonderful love which is beyond our imagination. I really praise God for leading me with His love I don't see any decision making process like we do in the “management theory”. These are all by cause and effects of God the creator if at all I obey Him. I feel more safe in His mighty 'Will' than going through a so called decision making process of using my free will.
Thanks and blessings
Adam
Hi Brother Adam:Of course, the motive for obeying God is love.
God Bless
Nick…….He guides us by His spirit and he is the dominate controller of all things, “for he works in us (BOTH) to (WILL) and (DO) His Good Pleasure”. If he did not dominate and control His children then what kind of Father would He bid, and If HE did not discipline and Scourge us at times then He wouldn't really love us. You think that God's domination and control is evil would you say that to your earthly Father when you were a child, under his authority.
It appears you hate authority.Hi,
Anyone else know our loving God as some sort of a dominating power?
You can scourge a son and still that son can rebel.
Authority is never bullying in scripture.How did Jesus tell his disciples to behave towards others
Nick…….God even scouraged Jesus , Lets face it you hate authority and epically if its God's “dominating Power” I personally Glad God is Dominating in all things in my life. Thy kingdom come (THY) Will be Done, (do you see your will there anywhere). I don't What do you do with this, God may be ALL and IN ALL> It's not up to you or me to decide if we will obey we are commanded to obey rather you like it or not. It's not up to you to negotiate that. We are commanded to obey or suffer the results of disobedience
Hin GB,
So if you are so controlled by God how come some much of what you teach seems to be speculation?
If it was from the Spirit if God should it be rather of the word and not carnal?
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