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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2008,23:00) Hi cato,
God has no use for men seeking personal fulfillment.
Meaning comes from servanthood and subjection to the King
That statement is true. However there are some that are using their free will not to obey.
If I make a bad desicion, did God force me to do so? God does not want us to go astray, He wants all to come to Him. But by our choice or will, I have made bad choices, but that was mine to make, God did not make that choice.
Did God tell Adam not to eat of the tree in the middle of the Garden, and then force Him to eat there of, and then punish Him for doing so? That to me makes no sense.
God does not force anyone to do evil or good for that matter.
It is our choice and we have to live with it. I believe Gid set all of that into action whewn He created this world. Because He wants a people that obey Him by their free will, and love Him by our free will. All choices in the world is my will to do or not to do.
Peace and Love Irene
My Husband has a bad tooth, and He ate Pizza and now has a toothache. He said that was my choice and now I have to hurt.
Hi Irene
God is the only entity with “Free Will”. His is all powerful, I am sure you would agree. The only limits he has, he willing sets on himself.
Man has a “will” but it has limits. If we consider a baby is born without any expereince, his mind is like a blank slate. In order for it to learn it must expereince things. It experiences the world as it grows learning about itself and others. It learns about Balck and White and the millions of shades of each. Then it acts within those boundries.
It must act according to those experiences. That is why no two people think alike. All of their learned experiences are different from each other. Individuals are the victim of their experience and learning. “Cause and effect”. Two people can evaluate the same set of circustances and come to totally different conclusions. Why? everybody has been subjected to different sets of experiences. I think that is proven by the differing opinions of this board.
Hope this little explanation helps to clearify “free will”.
IMHO
Quote (97407 @ July 06 2008,02:54) Hi Irene God is the only entity with “Free Will”. His is all powerful, I am sure you would agree. The only limits he has, he willing sets on himself.
Man has a “will” but it has limits. If we consider a baby is born without any expereince, his mind is like a blank slate. In order for it to learn it must expereince things. It experiences the world as it grows learning about itself and others. It learns about Balck and White and the millions of shades of each. Then it acts within those boundries.
It must act according to those experiences. That is why no two people think alike. All of their learned experiences are different from each other. Individuals are the victim of their experience and learning. “Cause and effect”. Two people can evaluate the same set of circustances and come to totally different conclusions. Why? everybody has been subjected to different sets of experiences. I think that is proven by the differing opinions of this board.
Hope this little explanation helps to clearify “free will”.
IMHO
You say Man has a a will but it has limits, O.K. Of course God is all and all knowing that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing if we have a free will. And that we have. And to a certain limit you agree. We have to chose between good and evil. And with that you kind of agree. And that is all this subject is about.
We also not discussing what a Baby can do or not do. We are discussing a man or a woman. There are many choices we can make in Live by our will. Some choices are bad and some are good. That is how we grow in all truths. We have the choice to believe in the trinity or not.
This is so ridiculous, if we would not have a free will this society would look a lot different.
When you say the only entity with free will is God, you are saying you have no choice. I think all are confusing the free will with that God is all powerful.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Irene @ July 06 2008,04:56) Quote (97407 @ July 06 2008,02:54) Hi Irene God is the only entity with “Free Will”. His is all powerful, I am sure you would agree. The only limits he has, he willing sets on himself.
Man has a “will” but it has limits. If we consider a baby is born without any expereince, his mind is like a blank slate. In order for it to learn it must expereince things. It experiences the world as it grows learning about itself and others. It learns about Balck and White and the millions of shades of each. Then it acts within those boundries.
It must act according to those experiences. That is why no two people think alike. All of their learned experiences are different from each other. Individuals are the victim of their experience and learning. “Cause and effect”. Two people can evaluate the same set of circustances and come to totally different conclusions. Why? everybody has been subjected to different sets of experiences. I think that is proven by the differing opinions of this board.
Hope this little explanation helps to clearify “free will”.
IMHO
You say Man has a a will but it has limits, O.K. Of course God is all and all knowing that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing if we have a free will. And that we have. And to a certain limit you agree. We have to chose between good and evil. And with that you kind of agree. And that is all this subject is about.
We also not discussing what a Baby can do or not do. We are discussing a man or a woman. There are many choices we can make in Live by our will. Some choices are bad and some are good. That is how we grow in all truths. We have the choice to believe in the trinity or not.
This is so ridiculous, if we would not have a free will this society would look a lot different.
When you say the only entity with free will is God, you are saying you have no choice. I think all are confusing the free will with that God is all powerful.
Peace and Love Irene
IreneYou are correct.
A close look at Romans chapter 6 is proof scritpurally that man has free will or the power to make choices to walk in in the Spirit or not, independently of God forcing him or dragging him. God doesn't make those choices for us, he only leads us, but we have to decide to follow.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2008,06:37) Quote (Irene @ July 06 2008,04:56) Quote (97407 @ July 06 2008,02:54) Hi Irene God is the only entity with “Free Will”. His is all powerful, I am sure you would agree. The only limits he has, he willing sets on himself.
Man has a “will” but it has limits. If we consider a baby is born without any expereince, his mind is like a blank slate. In order for it to learn it must expereince things. It experiences the world as it grows learning about itself and others. It learns about Balck and White and the millions of shades of each. Then it acts within those boundries.
It must act according to those experiences. That is why no two people think alike. All of their learned experiences are different from each other. Individuals are the victim of their experience and learning. “Cause and effect”. Two people can evaluate the same set of circustances and come to totally different conclusions. Why? everybody has been subjected to different sets of experiences. I think that is proven by the differing opinions of this board.
Hope this little explanation helps to clearify “free will”.
IMHO
You say Man has a a will but it has limits, O.K. Of course God is all and all knowing that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing if we have a free will. And that we have. And to a certain limit you agree. We have to chose between good and evil. And with that you kind of agree. And that is all this subject is about.
We also not discussing what a Baby can do or not do. We are discussing a man or a woman. There are many choices we can make in Live by our will. Some choices are bad and some are good. That is how we grow in all truths. We have the choice to believe in the trinity or not.
This is so ridiculous, if we would not have a free will this society would look a lot different.
When you say the only entity with free will is God, you are saying you have no choice. I think all are confusing the free will with that God is all powerful.
Peace and Love Irene
IreneYou are correct.
A close look at Romans chapter 6 is proof scritpurally that man has free will or the power to make choices to walk in in the Spirit or not, independently of God forcing him or dragging him. God doesn't make those choices for us, he only leads us, but we have to decide to follow.
WJ
Amen. Brother WJ:WJ….then are we to presume more then on Will will be done in the kingdom of God . If man is a so-called free moral agent……then will he always be that, able to express His (OWN) Will separate of God then, because after all according to your theory That the way God wants him to be. If that were the case God would not have to indwell us, because we have the ability to choose for ourselves if we will follow him. His spirit is (NOT) needed then.
94707………….You have it exactly right. Man learns and what He learn causes him to chooses what he chooses, (Cause and Effect). and He will only do whats in Him. There is No Such thing as (FREE) Will, as science and psychologists have proved. It has never been disproved either. Man will is expressed by whats in Him, nothing Free about it. Scripture even says Satan is the Father of liers, he abode not in the truth, (BECAUSE) the truth was (NOT IN HIM)> He only does whats in him, the same thing is with us we do whats in Us , So if the spirit of truth is in you (IT) will produce in YOU truth. Nothing to do with your own So-called (FREE) Will at all.
This whole Idea of (FREE WILL) is fostered by the PRIDE OF MAN, Man likes to think He is the master of His destiny and Hates the Idea the ONE GOD is in TOTAL control of everything. Including His choices by altering His Will, they just can't stand where it says “for He (GOD) works in Us (BOTH) to (WILL) and (DO) of (HIS) good pleasure.” this scripture simple turns there stomach. It takes the power out of their Hands and they cant stand that.
Peace to you and yours……………..gene
Hi GB,
Receiving the Spirit does not magically transform a man so that all he thinks and says is true.If that was true then Paul would not have to have spent so time and much energy teaching the neophytes in his letters and pleading with them to walk in truth and love.
Hi Nick.
I notice you haven't stated your views in the post “What do you believe you need to do for salvation”. You were very prompt in critisizing the ones who did post, even though that was not the place to do it. We are all very interested in your views on this subject. Is it because you don't want to expose yourself to critisizim, or that you are not sure what you beieve? In any case, insulating yourself from exposure to your thoughts will only lessen your already weakend reputation. Will you meet the “Challange”?Blessings.
Nick….I am not saying because we have the ability to recognize truth that that automatically changes us, it is a process, but with out that Spirit the process could never begin. Please don't misunderstand what i am saying. We must be given the words of God by someone and we by the Spirit are able to receive them into our being, Paul plainly said How could they know unless some one is sent to speak the word to them. God causes us to understand and receive the words into us and the word begins a process of washing us from all uncleanness. No it is a process Paul plainly said he did not count himself as atanied and he could still be after preaching the word cast off.
Please don't take what i am saying wrong, I know i enfranchise the Power of God a lot, i do that because many think they do ALL the saving work themselves and Leave God out of the Picture completely. I believe that our salvation is of God ONLY, but if the Spirit of God is in you it should be producing Fruit of the Spirit in your life. Don't misunderstand me as long as we are in these flesh bodies it will be a struggle, but if we sin we do have an advocate Jesus Christ, and if we confess our sins God is faithful to forgive us (AND) Cleanse Us from (ALL) unrighteousness. If God is truly in you you should be overcoming the world daily.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2008,08:46) Nick….I am not saying because we have the ability to recognize truth that that automatically changes us, it is a process, but with out that Spirit the process could never begin. Please don't misunderstand what i am saying. We must be given the words of God by someone and we by the Spirit are able to receive them into our being, Paul plainly said How could they know unless some one is sent to speak the word to them. God causes us to understand and receive the words into us and the word begins a process of washing us from all uncleanness. No it is a process Paul plainly said he did not count himself as atanied and he could still be after preaching the word cast off. Please don't take what i am saying wrong, I know i enfranchise the Power of God a lot, i do that because many think they do ALL the saving work themselves and Leave God out of the Picture completely. I believe that our salvation is of God ONLY, but if the Spirit of God is in you it should be producing Fruit of the Spirit in your life. Don't misunderstand me as long as we are in these flesh bodies it will be a struggle, but if we sin we do have an advocate Jesus Christ, and if we confess our sins God is faithful to forgive us (AND) Cleanse Us from (ALL) unrighteousness. If God is truly in you you should be overcoming the world daily.
I believe that I can say amen to this.Quote (chosenone @ July 06 2008,08:34) Hi Nick.
I notice you haven't stated your views in the post “What do you believe you need to do for salvation”. You were very prompt in critisizing the ones who did post, even though that was not the place to do it. We are all very interested in your views on this subject. Is it because you don't want to expose yourself to critisizim, or that you are not sure what you beieve? In any case, insulating yourself from exposure to your thoughts will only lessen your already weakend reputation. Will you meet the “Challange”?Blessings.
Nick?Quote (942767 @ July 06 2008,08:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2008,08:46) Nick….I am not saying because we have the ability to recognize truth that that automatically changes us, it is a process, but with out that Spirit the process could never begin. Please don't misunderstand what i am saying. We must be given the words of God by someone and we by the Spirit are able to receive them into our being, Paul plainly said How could they know unless some one is sent to speak the word to them. God causes us to understand and receive the words into us and the word begins a process of washing us from all uncleanness. No it is a process Paul plainly said he did not count himself as atanied and he could still be after preaching the word cast off. Please don't take what i am saying wrong, I know i enfranchise the Power of God a lot, i do that because many think they do ALL the saving work themselves and Leave God out of the Picture completely. I believe that our salvation is of God ONLY, but if the Spirit of God is in you it should be producing Fruit of the Spirit in your life. Don't misunderstand me as long as we are in these flesh bodies it will be a struggle, but if we sin we do have an advocate Jesus Christ, and if we confess our sins God is faithful to forgive us (AND) Cleanse Us from (ALL) unrighteousness. If God is truly in you you should be overcoming the world daily.
I believe that I can say amen to this.
I can also say amen to that post brother Gene. Wonderful revelations I agree with all of them.
Thanks
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,11:13) Hi Gb,
God graces true listeners with repentance.
Hi brother Nick,
Why you have quoted this?
This is the way you are criticising brothers. Is there any thing wrong in Gene's post above?
Please share your opinion and don't comment quickly on other's posts.
Thanks
AdamHi Brother Adam:
One of the greatest gifts to us from God is the freedom to choose. He is not a dictator, and does not force himself on anyone. In the same way, I have given my wife the scriptures relative to her submitting herself to God through me, but I do not want to control her in anyway. If she does submit herself to God through me it will be because she wants to obey the scriptures. I used to get angry when she did not go to church with me but I don't want her to obey God because I get angry with her.
If she obeys for any other reason other than she wants to obey, it will be for the wrong motive.No, no, never no, God does not control us. We are not dragged into a relationship with Him. We are called into a relationship with Him.
Quote Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. God Bless
Hi brother,
You missed a great word “love”. yes God is not a dictator like humans but He compells us through His wonderful love which is beyond our imagination. I really praise God for leading me with His love I don't see any decision making process like we do in the “management theory”. These are all by cause and effects of God the creator if at all I obey Him. I feel more safe in His mighty 'Will' than going through a so called decision making process of using my free will.
Thanks and blessings
Adam
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